WOOHOO! Here we go! First session of OFFICE HOURS is firing off! We are gonna start off with some topics to help you get onto digital and I will help, to the best of my abilities, get you in front of your audience so tune in, my guest might have the same questions you do about digital.

In this edition of LiveTime with Alec…

• What is Podcast formatting?
• What systems and programs do you use?
• Finding out what you need to start a podcast.
• Do not overthink the production, just do it.

Episode Transcribe

Let’s make a pivot and go internal, I have on Devin Hernandez, VP of Employee Experience for loanDepot. We are going to dive into what it takes to put on an all digital event for thousands of people.

In this snippet of the Modern Lending Podcast…

• Get the zoom tips on how to be present online.
• Find out the differences and similarities between running a virtual event and an in-person one.
• People love getting stuff in the mail.
• Turn your camera on and fill in the gaps for your team.

Episode Transcribe

[Alec] What’s up everybody. Welcome to another “Modern Lending” podcast. I’m your host Alec Hanson. That feels weird. I never thought this would be like a show, but apparently it’s a show. I don’t know how I feel about that yet, but today I’m excited because man, we live in the virtual world now, don’t we? We got pushed more and more violently into this virtual space and that affected all of our jobs, how we do things. But most importantly it affected how we connect with other people. And so a really good friend of mine, a sister of mine in another life Devin Hernandez runs employee experiences for LoanDepot. She’s a true professional and her life changed dramatically with COVID on how we connect with people. And so I want to bring her on. I wanna talk about what she’s doing and what we can learn together. So let’s bring on Devin. Woo, hey Devin[Devin] What’s up? Hey?[Alec] All right, so the comments are live, let the trash talking begin. I’m sure we’ll get some people that wanna just make fun of me ’cause that’s your job normally.[Devin] Just you. Just you, they won’t make fun of me.[Alec] No, they know better. ‘Cause you’re like you give out swag, you hook them up. Like know where, all the Chairmans Elite events are. And so you’re like, Oh yeah[Devin] That’s so much bribery but usually people are pretty nice to me.[Alec] All right so Devin before we start share with everybody your role at LoanDepot, what you’ve been doing, what you love doing like give everyone in the background here.[Devin] Sure, so Alec shared I’m the VP of employee experience, which is kind of a catch all. So it’s a little bit of meetings and events. It’s a little bit of philanthropy and charity, it’s travel. It’s a bunch of things. It’s basically anything that touches our employees and how can we make it impactful and exciting and authentic to LoanDepot. So I do a little bit of everything, but I’d have to say my DNA what I’ve made my career in is making really impactful events whether they be virtual now or in[Devin]person. So that’s what I do. And I’ve been here for, it’ll be 11 years this year.[Alec] 11 years, so you[Devin][Devin] 11 years.[Alec] You’re ahead of me by one year[Devin] I have to you at something. So it’s gonna be that .[Alec] Okay, so give everybody an overview of some of the favorite events you’ve done. I want people to try to get a ’cause I’ve been to so many of them and were so cool. And I want people to understand like what scale you’re playing at.[Devin] Yeah, okay so let’s start like smaller but probably the most impactful is our new hire orientation. And for anybody that’s heard me I was on Chris Madigan’s show a couple of weeks ago and we talked a lot about that. That’s one of my favorites because it’s every single month. So it feels a little bit like Groundhog’s day, but it’s so impactful ’cause it’s so different than most companies. Like we put so much more passion into it that it’s not like, “Here’s your training manual “and go watch these five videos and “take your test and let’s hope and pray that you do well.” It’s so much more than that. And it was five days of live events 11 years ago when I started. And it’s five days of virtual events now, but one of my favorite parts of that is you really get reenergized every time you talk to a new hire. When somebody comes over here and they share the way that they feel about LoanDepot and what this is doing for them in their personal life and professional life. Like it just rejuvenates you for things that you probably take for granted every day. So that I would say is one of my number one favorite but definitely one of the most impactful and coolest ones. So that’s number one. Number two, the launch of Mello. So, and you were there. You were on That was ridiculous. So I’m just gonna back this up a minute. We were in the middle of our incentive trip for retail and I get a call and like, “We’re launching Mello.” And I’m like, “What is that?” And we pulled it off in like two and a half weeks. And we already had this meeting event this national meeting already planned and we’re like, “Okay, how can we just like steal this meeting “and also launch Mello at the same time?” And so we had two different ballrooms set up. We had all of the salespeople in one room and it felt like your normal sales meeting. And then the next they walked into a different room that had I’m not even gonna tell you the dollar amount of audio visual and like creative staging. And we made a Starbucks happen. We made a living room scene. We had all white acrylic furniture throughout the room. Like we really wanted people to feel what Mello was gonna feel like. And then we did it live on Facebook. And that was so early on people weren’t doing those things yet. So I mean that was an incredible event that I think challenged me and my team in a whole different way. So I had said that’s number two. Do you want number three?[Alec] By the way, before we get number three. Everyone you can actually go watch that on YouTube. You can go watch them all. So you can see the set and they experience Devin is talking about. It was crazy to be there. I mean the whole wall Anthony was a video screen.[Devin] It was 90 feet by 40 feet tall. It was gigantic .[Alec] That’s gigantic.[Devin] It was. And it would really had like an Apple feel to it. And I think anybody that was in that room just felt the power and the momentum of where we were going in that moment. So achieved. Objective achieved, yeah.[Alec] All right, you have a number three?[Devin] Number three, Chairmans Elite, One of my favorite things and we do it for three different business channels. We do it for retail. We do it for direct. We do it for our wholesale group. Each of these groups are very, very different demographically how they qualify. I mean, just age and where do they sit in the US and even in their environment. Some of them are remote, some sit in branches and then some sit in call centers. So that event, I think challenges myself and my team so much, ’cause it can’t be a plug and play. Like we have to look at each group and say like, what’s gonna excite direct? What’s gonna excite retail and what’s gonna excite wholesale? So that one’s super fun. And it takes us to some of the best locations in the country and in the world. So, I mean, personally, I love traveling around and checking some cool places out. So it’s definitely one of the benefits of my job and my role here.[Alec] Okay, so and I’ll have to I got to give you a little compliment on the event stuff that you do. One of my favorite things on every event you do is trying to wonder what little tiny thing you’re gonna pull off, A little gift, a little something that is unique that no one thinks about. You always do such a good job in those kinds of little wow experiences. In fact I try to teach a lot of loan officers like to copy that in the mortgage experience. Like look for those moments where you can come in and do something that’s not expected that delivers that smile. And that experience this is above and beyond.[Devin] Well, and I think to play in that Alec, like one of the things that my team and I talk about so much is we’re a big organization. We have 10,000 employees but I don’t ever want my team to seem robotic and not personalize. And so we don’t use we have an events@loandepot email box but you’ll never not have a person answering you with their name. And even for our events if Kate is my attendee manager for the event every email for her says, “Hey, it’s Kate, can I help?” Like whatever you need however, we can make your trip personalized and special. Like we haven’t lost no matter how big we’ve gotten we haven’t lost that personal touch. And so to me that draws back to that gifting and those special touches. Is that my team doesn’t get to say, “Okay, we’re so big now, “we don’t have to care about each individual person “that’s attending.” Like I know you, I know your wife Erica. I know Dan, I know Doreen. I know your sizes by heart at this point. And I’m pretty sure that I’ve filled Dan Hanson’s entire closet over the last 11 years[Devin][Alec] Facts, that’s a fact.[Devin] Right fact. But I take a lot of passion in that. And so does my team. I think we know the spouses just as much as we know the individuals that qualify for the trip. And I think that’s what makes it special. And it’s real for us. Like it’s not a stage. We’re not an external company LoanDepot hired and just make this meaningful. We’re part of team LoanDepot too. So I think passion comes through.[Alec] So I have some questions for you and here’s kinda where I wanna start it out. In the glory days when COVID wasn’t the thing, you and I worked together on several in[Devin]person large sales rallies. And I love sales rallies for a thousand reasons. I love getting together. I love community. I love just kind of the celebration and employee recognition. Like there’s so many layers to these things that I love, but, and we’ve had a blast. So I mean, we’d done Disneyland. They all got screwed up and then of course I called you and said, And so what did you think when I first threw that at you? And what were your thoughts on that?[Devin] I was super excited ’cause I knew that my team was preparing for some of these things. And to be honest Alec, this is where I will give my compliment back to you. If I was gonna go down the virtual event road with anyone, I’m glad that I got to go down it with somebody that’s tech savvy. That’s already out there. That’s already built a personality and an ambassador to the virtual world because it’s challenging, right? Like getting on camera is not natural for everybody. And I know you personally. I will call you my friend. And I know that it’s a lot of work for you to do this too. And it’s a lot of work for me to do these things. So to come online and be there for six hours, takes a lot. It’s fun, but boy, is it exhausting too? So I think when you asked myself and my team to kinda engage in this, I was excited that you were gonna be our first to go down that road. ‘Cause I think it was gonna be the most fun. I knew that we were gonna challenge the boundaries and that we were probably gonna do some duct taping in the background but it was gonna happen. And shout out to Kenny. He just commented on Facebook. Kenny Arroyo is my new event and meeting production manager. Worked for the dude forever. He’s done a lot of events with me. He’s super, super talented. And that’s the type of people that I want on my team now that can help us bring virtual. ‘Cause it’s not here for a minute. Like it’s here to stay and we’re building our team to be able to do these things. So thanks Kenny.[Alec] So why don’t you share some of the stuff your team did for this virtual event to try to make it not another Zoom call? ‘Cause there’s like Zoom fatigue is real, right? And it’s like[Devin][Devin] It is.[Alec] It’s real. And so if we’re gonna get six hours of this kind of virtual event. And then we’re gonna have a happy hour. I mean so share some of the things your team brought to this story because it really blew my mind.[Devin] Yeah, so if it’s cool, I’m gonna start with some of the challenges that you kind of go through when you’re doing a virtual event. And so like you brought to us and I looked at it and I’m like “Oh my God, we’re gonna be on Zoom “for seven hours.” Like, “How are we gonna do these seven hours?” So right when you walk into a general session your sales rally, your national meeting, whatever it is you walk into this hall room that has things that are visually stimulating you. Whether it’s like the signage, whether it’s the little gifts on the table, whether it’s your name badge, your journal the people you’re networking, the gigantic screens. Like there’s so much, that’s grabbing your attention, that’s keeping you engaged in the content and everything that’s happening. When we change that. And we throw you into your living room or your office, your car, wherever you’re taking this you have a million distractions. Like I know, like I got my kids running around I got my dog, my husband is on Zoom in the other room. Amazon is being delivered. Like there’s a million things. Plus I’ve got my email there and nobody can see that I’m just like typing away on my email while Alec is doing his thing. There’s a million distractions that we’re competing against in that moment. So I think when you and I and my team started planning this, we really tried to think about how can we create different engagements throughout? And so we started to layer things in and to some that looked at it maybe like, wow, there was so much going on. Like there was a DJ, there was an artist there was Alec , there’s a guest speaker. But it’s like we’re trying to keep an ADD person like super focused. And I think we did it and we killed it. And I’m really proud of it. I think some people may be like, “That was a little much,” but for the majority of them, I think they were so much more in tune than they would have been had they just done this for seven hours, right?[Alec] Yeah, and you know this, and I know this, but like[Devin][Devin] So specifically, like .[Alec] Yeah, so even in live events, there’s always people who aren’t happy with something. Like you can’t please 500 people. You just can’t. You can get close. There’s always gonna be someone who like, “The coffee was cold or hot.” At live events it’s funny. Like, “You didn’t give me enough food.” Like whatever it is, right? And you’re like, “Come on, I’m trying here”[Devin] Temperature. It’s the worst thing in the world. Hot and cold in a ballroom. And now it’s on you. You can toggle your own thermostat at home.[Alec] But I think you’re really dead on. And there’s a parallel here that I wanna get to later. But maintaining attention in a space where you’re at home, the kids are there the dog is there, the neighbor rings your doorbell your phone, you could just put your camera off and just do whatever you wanna do. And like, it’s so different than being in an event where you’re live with everybody hanging out. It’s just radically different.[Devin] Yeah, absolutely. So we, brought a bunch of different things in Alec. We did a graphic artist, which shout out to John. He was an amazing artist that sat with us live and the biggest compliment in the world came back from him. And he’s like, “That was so much fun.” He doesn’t work for a LoanDepot. He doesn’t work for LoanDepot. He’s got all these other things going on. He does a bunch of different conferences but he came back and he’s like, “That was so much fun. “You guys are so cool.” And I’m like, “We just made mortgage super cool, “to a total outsider.” So I think that was a complete win. So we had a great graphic artist, that was drawing along all of our speakers. And then we had a DJ live out of Philadelphia that was helping us out as well. And I just think the combination of, a mixed agenda of different people we gave breaks we’ve got all these other components. I really think we did a nice job of keeping people’s attention. And it seems like they were pretty happy with what they got.[Alec] Yeah, and I do wanna give a shout out to all the managers who finally got on video. ‘Cause I know I’m pushing everybody into video, like aggressively. And then I just forced them. I’m like, “You have to send me a video “thanking your employee of the year “and your ops partner of the year. “So get it in.” But I think those videos, when they played through kind of in the virtual reality environment like I think they had an impact. I think they really meant something to somebody. Like the people got to hear. And I’ll tell you this too Devin. This is one of the big learnings I had on virtual events. The comments that are live, that you get direct feedback. Normally when I’m speaking to a bunch of people, I get kind of head nods as feedback, but I’m not getting like direct feedback. And it was actually really cool to have people being like directly commenting as I was talking or as someone else. I loved that. I thought that was really like heightened the engagement for me. And I hope so for them as well. It’s also one of the reason I like these live environments. ‘Cause we’re getting comments like Kenny is jumping in. Because now I’m like, “Yeah, “you guys are part of this experience. “You’re part of this conversation with Devin and I.” And in that virtual reality event they were part of the conversation if they want it to be. And that was really cool.[Devin] Yeah, no, I agree. It was fun and I was messing around with people in the chat box. I know you were as well. And it calls people out. So they’re not just like, you’re not just watching. This is not a one[Devin]way opportunity. Like you’re part of the audience you’re live. And I think you and your team did a really nice job of, we were projecting the different Zoom screens on your virtual stage behind you. And when people won, you were pointing them out and high[Devin]fiving their screen and it was awesome. And I think it reminded people like I see you because I think that’s the thing that people miss the most right now is that they just feel like it’s easy to feel like you’re at home and nobody is connecting with you. But like we really made we made a point to make sure that we recognize people and we see you, we’re here with you. And I think it was fun. It was a good time.[Alec] Where are virtual events going in your mind? “Cause you mentioned Kenny, but like I know you’re looking forward and you’re looking at all this stuff and you’re going, “Okay like are these gonna live “in parallel to in[Devin]person events, “as those become back in style?” Where do you see this going? ‘Cause I’m, curious where your brain’s at.[Devin] Yeah I mean, I probably should have had Kenny next to me ’cause he probably knows a lot more than I do on this part. But I’ll tell you what I think. I think is that we’re gonna see an evolution of hybrid forever. There’s gonna be a group of folks that for any, which reason don’t feel the same comfort in traveling or going across the country to go to this event or that event. But then there’s gonna be people probably like you and me, that crave human connection. So we’re gonna have in[Devin]person and we’re gonna have people that are gonna be joining virtually too. And so I think building into all of our meetings, we have find a way to bring in that virtual attendee. It’s gonna be just as important as how we set the seat for someone who shows up in front of us. So I think we’re gonna see that and we’re probably gonna see that forever. And I think it’s gonna be, I think that’s gonna be one of the best benefits, at least from my side of the industry. So Alec, you mentioned at the beginning that we used to do these sales rallies at Disneyland. We did them for years right? And there’s a reason why we kind of we stopped for a year or two. And I’m just gonna call it out. Live events are expensive. They are. There’s a lot of components to it. You’re traveling people. And it’s not just about getting somebody to your meeting for five days, but they’ve gotta fly in the day before we gotta feed them. We gotta get them a hotel room. So live events get so costly too for an organization. And so you start to limit your audience size because you’re like, “Okay, “like let’s get it down to just the key hundred folks “that we can get in the room. “And then we’ll send out PowerPoint slides to everybody else “that couldn’t be there.” And I don’t know any person that’s felt like, “Oh, I read that PowerPoint, “and I totally got the point.” I mean, they’re not that impactful. So this virtual change for us has given us an opportunity and kind of a gift to say, we can do these events again. We can make our audiences large and we’re not I’m not gonna tell you that virtual meetings are free, ’cause they’re not. If you do them well they do have a cost to them but we’re back in our audience again, we’re back with our people again. And I think we’re doing a really nice job of it, but that was kind of like the silent gift to me in the moment. Is it allowed us to bring some things back that we may have put on the back burner for a couple of years because of costs and constraints.[Alec] You know what, it’s funny too ’cause Devin, it’s not just about scaling. Look at the high level of events of 100 people 1,000 people events, that kind of stuff. But then you have to, I go back down mentally to like, what about the branch manager who used to hold sales meetings in[Devin]person sales meetings and give a little award monthly recognition. And now it’s like gotta pivot virtually everyone had to pivot virtually and I’m just looking down going, “Man, I’ve got to put “a ton of pressure on everybody. “Not just what you do and I do “but what a branch manager does.” And so there’s skill there, there’s new skills to learn. Like how do you hold an effective virtual meeting and how do you keep attention? And by the way, people turn their cameras off. And so it’s like or they don’t even own a camera, right? I mean, they can’t even get on Zoom. So I’d love for you to share some like secrets and tips and tricks you’ve learned and tactics and all that fun stuff for everybody listening because it is a whole new area. And like you and I ran into it head first, ’cause we’re like crazy people and we’re like, “We’ll figure it out. “Like I hope it doesn’t blow up.”[Devin] Right[Alec] There are people who are like terrified or not well[Devin]equipped at all. Let’s give them some of the secrets Devin. Spill it, spill the guts here.[Devin] Sure, so not even from a meeting side but, our organization uses Microsoft Teams as a main communication tool which is we all moved out of the office and I don’t have an office phone anymore. And so every person in the organization can call me on audio or by video every time they want. Every single time I answer on video. It doesn’t matter who you are that’s calling me. I don’t care if I’ve never if you’re one of the 10,000 employees that I haven’t had a chance to meet yet every single one of you will see my face. And it’s funny, I answered a call yesterday with one of our recruiters and she’s like, “Oh my God, your video is on.” And I was like, “Yeah, you should turn yours on.” And we had a conversation. She’s like, “Do you get ready like every day?” And I’m like, “No, I don’t. “But that’s not the point. “The point is, is that I don’t get to hide from you “when I’m in the office. “I don’t get to hide from you “when we went into a boardroom together. “So why am I trying to hide from you at home?” And I have connected so much deeper with a lot of my team members during this time. I have employees that sit in California and in Arizona. And I have seen my Californian employees more than I ever have in the last five years they’ve reported to me. And so the connection with this team is so important. Think of the basics. It’s not just about how am I gonna show up virtually for my meetings, but start doing it in your everyday life. Like even I look at my kids I have a five[Devin]year old, a 12[Devin]year old and 14[Devin]year old. So I got kindergarten, junior high and high school. So please somebody pray for me because the last seven months have been tough. But it’s funny if you watch them, none of them take phone calls anymore. They FaceTime their friends for every single conversation. And I’m like really? They don’t even text anymore because they don’t even wanna write which maybe is a whole another conversation. But they FaceTime constantly. They’re not afraid of that, but yet we try to hide from those things too. So I say just start with the basics. Force yourself to get comfortable because it makes these things less uncomfortable. I’m not worried about going live with Alec today because I do it every single day. So I’d say that’s a big thing for me.[Alec] Devin, that’s a huge tip. Huge tip that’s underrated. On my last podcast, I had a buddy of mine on there and he always defined it as putting in the reps. And like but you just described was perfect. Like you’re just, you’re practicing. Even if it’s with your employee or colleague or peer across the country, you’re practicing looking at a camera. You’re practicing showing respect. You’re probably getting better at it, ’cause you’re like, “Ooh, that didn’t work.” Or, “I didn’t like that.” And so you’re changing things. But that’s huge. I mean, I can’t highlight that enough.[Devin] So, and then for the folks that hate looking at themselves on camera. So a couple of my tricks I have a whole LoanDepot wardrobe that I purchased. So I’ve got a shirt for every day of the week. And so it does help because I just know that I wanna be on brand. And I want to see my logo on the screen, the LoanDepot logo on the screen. I always wear earrings because they immediately make you look more dressed up. And now I accessorize with different types of glasses . So if you look at my desk, there’s like four different pairs of earrings, two different pairs of glasses, because that’s all you see of me. So this is what I’m gonna dress up for you. So there’s my simple tip for there. The next thing I would say is just your level of excitement. There’s a saying that text and email always comes over neutral or negative. And I always take that to heart when I’m reading people’s messages that to convey excitement in an email is really, really tough. And so somebody who’s never people tend to take those things the wrong way. So if you can talk to them that’ll help. But two, when you’re talking on camera, you have to increase your energy level almost to the point that you’re annoying yourself. Like I’m sure my household is making fun of me right now. Like what is mom doing? But you’ve got to bring it up. So like that inner cheerleader in all of you, like bring it up 25% because you are combating all the distractions. And I need to make sure that you’re not gonna stop listening to Alec and I right now so I’ve gotta put it on. I’ve gotta turn it on. And that’s what makes it exhausting too. I mean Alec I’m sure like after the sales rally I sent you an emoji of like a little kid in a ball on the floor rolling. I’m like, “Talk to you in 12 hours,” because it’s just is draining, but it’s so rewarding too. It is[Alec] Yeah, I really resonate with that. Video you’ve gotta come up a notch and when you’re hosting team meetings and you’re doing sales meetings and you’re the leader of that experience, you’ve got to come and bring it all. Because otherwise it does the not[Devin]in[Devin]person effect pulls down the energy just naturally. You just don’t, there’s no one else here. So you gotta bring it. Great tip.[Devin] So the other thing that I would say from a tip is know the tool. Get in Zoom, play with it. Watch other people. There’s tons of things out there that tell you how to use the tool. If the Zoom is the one that you’re gonna use the most but understand how to share your screen understand how to mute people or unmute people. It’s so funny. I do so many video calls. I’m no joke. I’m on video probably seven to nine hours every single day which is a bit ridiculous. But I have vendors all the time that are like, “Oh, this is Devin. “She’s like the Zoom queen.” And that makes me laugh. But they’re like, “She can share screens like nobody’s business.” And I’m like, “Really? “Like, that’s a new, “like that’s a talent that I have? “is I can share screens.” But it’s funny. So know[Devin][Alec] I gotta go nerdy on you now ’cause you know this thing. Have you seen this? I showed you this before?[Devin] Yes, I tried to order one.[Alec] This is stream deck for those of you guys that don’t know. And down here are all these buttons down here, I hotkeyed ’cause zoom has hot keys, right? Like in order to mute all, it’s like Alt+A or something. I don’t remember, I had to Google it. And so I assigned hotkeys so I can mute everybody, right here. I can share my screen. I can unshare my screen. I can mute myself. I can, all the features are built into this little stream deck. And so instead of having to hotkey or click around, if something’s happening really quickly bang my screen is off. My naked six[Devin]year[Devin]old runs in here that screen off. But you’re totally right. Know the tool. You don’t necessarily have to go that dorky, but I just didn’t wanna keep having to click around. I wanted one button to push. And, but yeah I mean, you gotta know your tools or else you can’t use them effectively.[Devin] Know the tool and find someone who does know it really well. In the industry and organization our industry that I am part of meetings and events and hospitality has been an area that’s been really really heavily hit with COVID. I mean, I’ve got lifelong peers that I have been jobless for months. I’ve got hotel friends that have worked for the same hotels for 30 years, that don’t have jobs today. And it’s sad and I’m not necessarily better at my job than they are. I’m just really really blessed to be part of a growing organization and part of an industry that’s not impacted in the same way. And for that I’m truly grateful, but I’ve reached out to so many friends like, “Hey, I use Zoom seven hours a day. “If you don’t know Zoom and you need help, message me.” And seriously Alec like for this group too, like I made three different videos already. I’ve given them to the tech department of LoanDepot. Like if someone just doesn’t even understand how to schedule a meeting or how to use this, like I’ve made a bunch of little videos. I don’t look great. I don’t sound great, but I’d rather hand them out to you and empower you to know how to do that because it’s the simple things. And I think that’s what scares people about being virtual is like, what am I sound like? What do I look like? And what if I don’t know what I’m doing? And people are watching me get flustered. So know the tool. Practice the tool. And you practice the tool by using the tool more frequently than just like once in a blue moon.[Alec] Yeah, I was gonna say just like your last point if you’re practicing and you’re using it in your daily use, you’ll start to figure stuff out. I mean, I cannot tell everybody how many times I’ve opened up a Zoom alone hit the record button, hit the record button, and talked so I could hear how I sounded. What the mic sounds like. Like check because I wanna know. And then I would figure out and use the YouTube and figure out how to like improve it. So yeah, I mean, head on. Okay, anything else[Devin] So the other thing you talked about is like, how do you engage people? Okay, so that’s how you get ready for it. You’re gonna practice your tool. You’re gonna use it more frequently. And you’re gonna find somebody who knows more than you do about it and ask them all the questions. But then you’re in the event itself. One of the things about Zoom that’s a bit of a challenge is once you get over and it depends on your computer, once you’re over like 16 people or so then you start to have pages of folks, right? And it’s hard right? You’ve got the grid . And if you’re on an iPad, then you’ve only got nine. And if you’re on a phone then you’ve got six and so on and so on. You have to work really hard to engage people. So if you’re a manager holding smaller group meetings of 20 or 30 folks one of the things is you have to get other people involved in running that meeting too. Because if they’re just gonna sit and watch you the whole time, it’s lame. Like give your people things to do to participate. They have to help. And it’s building ambassadors within your group too, but it keeps changing the view. If you are talking the entire time and you have 30 people who are sitting there on mute, guess what? Their screen never changes. Not one time because you’re the talking head it’s in the top left corner and that’s it. But the moment that you start engaging with other folks and having other speakers within your group, the screen changes. People move. As somebody speaks, people move around, And it’s important for the human eye to see things. ‘Cause they’re like, “Oh, something changed. “I need to see what’s looking.” So it’s also just an engagement strategy. So that would be an easy one I think. Share the love, share the weight of with other folks.[Alec] All right. What else?[Devin] So what else? What do you wanna know? I mean, I do this all day long, so I kind of feel about it.[Alec] Let me piggyback on your comment about the sharing the load. ‘Cause I think that’s super true. Like one of the things I see people do in their meetings is they put up a PowerPoint or they put up the agenda and the static agenda is there. And that’s useful for a period of time, ’cause I wanna see kind of what the day is. But then unfortunately they’re running a meeting with the agenda up and they’re minimized now to the little side of the Zoom thing, and I can’t to your point, if you don’t keep the action moving whether it’s new speakers, different things coming up on the screen, like our brains go into white noise mode and we just stop hearing. We stop just, it doesn’t stimulate us. We stop paying attention. And then all of a sudden now my camera goes off and I’m on my phone and I’m over there doing an email. And I totally agree like bringing up your rock stars, having them to participate, them share stuff, them doing updates not just one person can absolutely change the space. So let me ask you this question then.[Devin] Do you mean when you turned into like you had a donkey head when you’re not part of the conversation anymore?[Alec] Yes, snap cam filter. So I’ll share this everybody ’cause it’s super embarrassing but that Devin knows what’s happening here. So I have massive ADD. And when I’m done with a meeting and it’s still going on and I’m emotionally done, I have a bad habit, which is I kind of like start doing stuff on the computer. I’m at the keyboard the keys are here. I can just pull up a new screen and be doing something. I hit a hotkey on accident and sometimes I use snap cam filters during meetings. ‘Cause you can turn yourself into a potato or a donkey head. And so I’m in a meeting, in a prep meeting with Devin like I’m over here, like typing away, doing something else, muted. ’cause I’ve moved on.[Devin] With vendors. With vendors. It’s not just us.[Alec] It’s so not good. And then all of a sudden like I had hotkeyed myself into a donkey head. It was a donkey head. Or like glasses[Devin][Devin] Yes, it was a donkey.[Alec] Oh, I mean, talk about[Devin][Devin] And it was great, because I immediately said, “I think we’re done with this meeting. “I think Alec is done. “We can finish this offline,” which was awesome. But you know what? And it brings up a really good point, Alec is that you have to know your audience. Like I know when my audience is done. Like don’t belabor it. So it is helpful that I know that about you. And that I know when you’re done whether you have ADD or you turn into a donkey.[Alec] Oh my gosh.[Devin] But it was[Devin][Alec] Yeah, I have to Now I realize like turn off the snap cam thing or if you’re gonna multitask so that you don’t turn yourself into a jackass with everybody’s sitting there and you don’t even I didn’t even know that I had a donkey head on. So that was incredible skills by me. Don’t do that.[Devin] It was awesome.[Alec] All right, so question for you. How will in[Devin]person events come back? Like what are they gonna look like? I’m sure you’ve been thinking about some of this a little bit. ‘Cause places are slowly reopening. So what do they look like in the future?[Devin] So, and it’s kinda funny, we’ve been working with some of our vendors to see even just like what floor plans look like. Like visually like how is the room gonna look differently? And it’s weird. So, if you picture a room that you could have a 100[Devin]person event in that room can now accommodate 20 people. So the size and the way that people are set up and having everybody distanced. But all the days of people getting irritated like, “You squished me into this table “with one person on this side and everyone.” Those days are gone. And so I think that’s why it’s also so important to have that hybrid approach is because we can’t physically like to hold a 1000[Devin]person event it’s gonna be so different and everybody’s individual risk tolerances and what they’re uncomfortable with are different too. So I’ve seen a couple of folks that are doing in[Devin]person meetings right now. I wouldn’t recommend them for my group right now ’cause I just don’t think if your goal is connectivity, if your goal is to get people face to face because that’s the key part of live events. And if they’re having to stay that far apart from each other, right now, that’s really difficult to achieve. So I think we’re doing a great job with virtual events. I think they’re here for a while longer. I don’t know where this is gonna go. And it’s hard ’cause everybody’s risk tolerance is different. Everybody’s organizational risk tolerances are different. I mean, we both know companies that have their doors open today and have people in their offices. But LoanDepot has made a radical and amazing decision to keep our employees home. And I commend them for that but there’s organizations that haven’t. So different organizations think differently, different States, different countries. I mean, I’m looking at contracts for different I don’t wanna leak any Chairmans Elite information. I’m careful here .[Alec] It’s international. You’ve leaked that so[Devin][Devin] I did not.[Alec] I’m just saying.[Devin] ‘Cause you heard country?[Alec] I heard it.[Devin] So it’s funny ’cause we’re having to layer in those things. What a country feels about it, what a specific state does. And then you’ve got to think about your individual people and how they feel about it too. So I know everybody is anxious for them to come back but if I released Chairmans Elite today and said, “We’re going tomorrow.” How many of you would sign up? You think about it, yeah.[Alec] It’s really complicated, unfortunately.[Devin] It is super complicated. And it’s been part of my team. For 10 years we’ve planned these, that has been a key event for us. So it feels kinda like out of like we’re out of step not having it in our rhythm, in our rhythm of getting ready for it. I mean it feels different about it but we’ve got some cool things in store. We’ve got some hopes and some plans, and we’ve got some dates. So we’re super excited and hopeful that next year we’ll be able to bring everybody back together for that event.[Alec] Me too. I would like that. I like the virtual stuff because those are really different I mean, they’re just different experiences. I mean, a really well done virtual event or virtual sales meeting or sales rally is different. It can still be good, engaging. People can still enjoy it. It can still have value, but it’s just gonna be a different thing. Then we can all get together in a room, which again to your point earlier, like has its own big giant list of problems. From expense to just people’s personal preference to, sometimes I don’t wanna sit in a room for 10 hours or five hours or whatever it is. So they all have their places. But I think you’re right. A hybrid view is kind of where the world is probably gonna move.[Devin] Well, and I think for you or for any of you folks that are watching that are planning these events just be conscious of your audience. Be conscious of how much they can handle. I mean, you said it, you don’t wanna go sit in a ballroom for five hours, but you also don’t wanna watch Zoom straight for five hours either, right? So there’s so much that’s transferable from a live event to a virtual event. And maybe that’s a good time for us for this next little piece is when my team approaches a virtual event the rule book didn’t get thrown out the window. Like a lot of the same things come into play. We still had to think about how to communicate to them and how to get them excited and to drip campaign the different guest speakers and keynote speakers and special guests that we were gonna have. We still thought about swag, but we switched and we went digital on our swag, which I have to say, I really like it. And I’m just gonna do a plug out here. My husband works for LoanDepot now as a loan officer. And he attended this event, which was incredible because we were on two different sides of the house. I’m like production running on the east side, and he’s on the west side of the house, actually watching it go live. It was super fun. But we did all these digital assets for them afterwards. So they had, digital assets to put on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, that they were attending. They had different phones screens of the key themes from the meeting so that they could leave a little bit longer for them. They had desktop updates for them that had those messages on there. And I know from my husband I see it on his phone every day and it makes me smile. I see it on his computer screen because having a strong mindset like it’s something he wants to focus on. And I’m like, “We did that.” Like, “We gave that to people.” That swag. That’s the same thing as me giving you a name badge or a journal on your seat that had the name on it. But we just had to do it a little bit differently. We thought about food. Like we had a happy hour with you, right? And if we were at a ballroom or a hotel or a restaurant, we would have had passed wine and this and that, but instead we had personal curated boxes sent to our top performers, with the bottle of wine that met their personality match with a couple of items in there, that’s in their house. And then we showed up later to do a cocktail hour with them. So if you think about it, there’s so many of the same components from a live to a virtual. It’s not a new playbook. It’s a challenge, but it’s not a new playbook that’s out there. It’s still those connection and those small touches. It’s just how can you do it in this world? And how can you have it show up to their house? And I think Steve Sims may have said it in your rally. People love getting stuff in the mail. They love an Amazon delivery. I can’t tell you how many people from that event were posting their boxes for their Chairmans Elite wine and everything showing up to their house. And then the week before that we sent out a gift to every single employee in LoanDepot. And I watched unboxing parties all week long. Like you can still do the same things. It just take a little bit more of a different logistical twist to it.[Alec] Yeah, no doubt. All right so we’re at the end. This was super helpful. Love the basic tips and tricks for people who are trying to run their own little event virtual. It doesn’t have to, like I said I mean the scale doesn’t change the opportunity to impact somebody personally. So if it’s a 500[Devin]person event or a meeting with your office and 10 of you, there’s still a huge opportunity to use the virtual to its advantages. And then to figure out how to come back around that and pick it up where it’s weak like a personalized gifting. And you’re right everyone loves packages. ‘Cause when you physically get something it has all of your attention. Steve’s comment, “You have to touch it with both hands.” You have to open it. You feel it. It’s an incredible different thing. So what would you share as like final tips from somebody who runs events and experiences for the management team out there across the country who are figuring out how do I connect better with my people? What’s your little landing pad for them?[Devin] So I’d say it’s gonna be twofold. One, don’t wait for a sales rally to meet with your team. Don’t think that it’s just the big events that are impactful. It’s doing it every day. And that’s that simple thing of turn on your camera. That’s like, I do a happy hour with my team every single Wednesday for 30 minutes. Sometimes I’ve got things to share, sometimes I don’t, but I’m physically in front of them and I’m seeing their face and I can see if they need something from me. Like I can tell on their face, if they’re engaged if they’re disengaged, if something is going on in their world, I can see it and don’t hide from it. So don’t wait to have this gigantic sales rally where we’re gonna have Stream Yard, and we’re gonna have YouTube and we’re gonna have a sketch artist and we’re gonna have a DJ. Like yes all those things are great but that shouldn’t be your only point of approach with your people. So I’d say fill the gaps, but then we’re not having live sales rallies. And on top of that you’re not going to live professional development conferences either. I know that like besides planning for LoanDepot we did 85 live events last year. On top of that, my team goes to an educational conference every year and we’re not doing that either. So you do need to fill the void with educational opportunities for your team and making sure they’re in the loop with the company. So I think the sales rally is a great thing. Town halls, just all calls, like get them on a rhythm and schedule them out, whether they’re quarterly, but commit to them and share that commitment back with your people. But you gotta fill the gaps in between. Doing a sales rally once a year is not gonna change your people or make them more engaged with you. It’s how are you doing it consistently? And then you’ve got a big one and then a little bit along the way, and so on.[Alec] Perfect advice, Devin. So before I say goodbye to everybody I just wanna thank you because you work tirelessly to bring like life and love and happiness to the employees at LoanDepot. And we’re so thankful for all the things you do. I’m so thankful that you told me me where CE is secretly so thank you for that.[Devin] Did not. Denied, denied.[Alec] And everyone at LoanDepot is so appreciative of what you do. So thank you very much.[Devin] Aw, thank you. I love team LoanDepot. I’m purple and green through and through.[Alec] All right, friends thank you for hanging out with us today on the “Modern Lending” podcast have a wonderful day and we’ll see you next time on the internet.

I’ve spent a bunch of time pushing the message to get into digital. I’ve been working on a new segment for you! Announcing my new Office Hours! Tune in to get the details on how to sign up, what I’ll help you and when it’ll air!

In this edition of LiveTime with Alec…

• Office Hours Announcement
• Collaboration on getting on digital
• Schedule a time for every Tuesday at 9:30AM PST
• Give me a topic or let me come up with one.

We going to see first hand what it does when you go all in on digital with my friend Rob Tavi, Managing Director of IBS Electronics Group. His company deals with microchips and brokering electronics parts and ever since he went all in his business has boomed. Join Rob and I as we touch on this subject.

In this snippet of the Modern Lending Podcast….

• Learn about the power of digital in another industry
• The most important thing about going digital is not going viral
• Return on relationship is better than return on investment
• You need to  have an opportunity at the table

Episode Transcribe

[Alec] What’s up, everybody. Welcome to another live episode of the “Modern Lending” podcast with me, Alec and man, today is gonna be fun. We’re gonna talk about digital, but in a whole new way, something that you’re not even prepared for. A really good friend of mine, a guy I’ve known for almost like a decade plus now. I know we’ve worked out together. We’ve owned side businesses and side hustles together. I love this man as a human being. I wanna bring on , Tavi, Tavakoli, Rob, you got so many different names. I gotta freak you out. But this is the managing director of IBS Electronics. And I want to have him come on, talk about what he does, but he went all digital in a totally different world, a totally different space than direct to consumer sales and mortgages. And it’s totally radically transformed, not only his business, but the culture inside his company. I’m watching it on digital, it’s amazing. And so let’s bring on and let’s talk about what going digital really does when you commit.[Rob Tavi] What’s up Alec?[Alec] I’m actually mad at you because somehow you got me on your podcast first and I started podcasting first and you beat me, but dude, Rob, okay. So, so much to talk about, but before we dive into all the fun stuff, dude, explain to everybody, what your business is, what you do, like give them the groundwork. Cause I want them to understand who you are in your space.[Rob Tavi] Well, let me simplify it because as I always tell them, oh, we’re a distributor of electronic components I tell it to a lot of friends, but they’re like, what do you sell? Cell phones, computers. What does that mean? Well, I’ll simplify and break it down. We’re basically into engineering, supply chain logistics. I’ll categorize the components that we deal with into like three different categories. So we have the active components, which are semiconductors, all the chips we do, then the passive components, which are, let’s say capacitors, resistors and LEDs, all this stuff and the little PC boards. And then we get into the interconnects electromechanical, which all the switches, push button switches connectors so that. And then there’s the hardware side of the screws and nuts. So we get into all this of distribution and selling to the manufacturer. So the companies of industries we sell to is space, defense, aerospace, automotive, medical, consumer power. So all these gadgets and all this hardware we have has all these little components in it. So what we do is we supply that, we’re a distributor. So we’re coming in on represent manufacturers. And we have design teams. We have logistics teams globally, and we’re heavily based out of Asia. A lot of we have about 10 offices up operations in Asia. We are headquarters for 40 years. It’s a 40 years family owned business. I’m second generation in this company. And we’ve been very focused in the last, I would say, 30 years in Asia. So that’s really in simplifying, really what we do is we are the foundation and the hardware of all gadgets that we use today.[Alec] So, and this is funny, you mentioned Asia and I know you used to travel all the all time, all the time. And of course, COVID just shut that down and forth. Another complexity into your business, cause you were in Singapore and Philippines and China. I mean, you were everywhere.[Rob Tavi] I was traveling for 20 years since I really came to the company and started working, was in my early twenties. I was traveling to Asia. That’s really where our bread and butter is, a lot as you guys know, a lot of offshoring happen in electronics. A lot of things got design innovations happen in the States or in Europe. And went to Asia, to China, to Southeast Asia production. So we would follow that and have our boots on the ground and people on the ground to make sure that business logistics, supply chain is there. And I would spend about three to four months a year traveling over there before I was married with kids and things have changed a little bit, but I will still travel as you’ve known me for 10 years, you know, hey, where are you going off? I’m gonna be in Singapore. I’m gonna be in China this week.[Alec] I never knew where you were.[Rob Tavi] You never knew where I was and yeah, so I would spend a lot of time out there and it was fascinating cause I’m always in front of customers, always finding manufacturers. You have to be with the people with the business and the people are at and the main our customers are there, right?[Alec] Yep, so then COVID blew that up. Transformed the environment, transformed the world. And what, how did you, I mean, now you’re so digital. So now you’re like you’re running a podcast, you’re having these great series. You’re doing “Real Talk,” which is kind of even a more fun conversation inside your industry now. And talk to everybody, why did you do this change in your business in life? I mean, you were so relational meeting people. That’s how you did business. What made you make the change?[Rob Tavi] Well, I can start from breaking it down. We’ve, our business has been very successful in Asia base, even though we’re a US based company, 80% of our revenues is really driven from the Asia side. So about three to four years ago, we tried to expand the US basis. Who are we? And try to build a presence from honestly from not really everybody knew the brand name. Everybody knew us in Asia because we’re in front of the customers all the time. But I mean, building in US was challenging for for few years, three, four years. I’m like, okay, what do we do? Go to trade shows. And there’s a lot of gorillas out there. How do we get in front of the people? How can I show I’m the David, there’s the Goliath out there? How can we build the branding? And starting about a year and a half ago, which I wanna start with, two, is I wanna thank you, which I thank you, Alec, is you what you’ve done. You’ve been a leader and you really influenced me and been a mentor of doing this. So about a year and a half ago, when you said, “hey, why don’t you go digital? “Why don’t you show everybody here?” This is before COVID, this is about a year and a half ago. Once you go, you’re such exciting life, you travel these places. Let’s just put it on camera, show what you do, visit the factories and do this. So I started that, I started taking my iPhone and I’m like, you know, I’ll do a little presentation about what our company is. I started with that probably did a hundred takes. I could not talk in front of the camera. My life depended on it.[Alec] Like when they first start.[Rob Tavi] It was very challenging, so I tried to break it all down. It’s like, how do I do this and put in the reps and put in things. So I kept challenging myself and going through this process and taking videos. And then I start traveling last half, last 2019 and taking videos of the factories where I was, the team just playing.[Alec] I remember in some of those videos that you would be in the factory or with the PA and you’d have your camera on or your phone on. And you’d be introducing people to like somebody who is sitting in there and they were like, oh, they were terrified of the camera. I gotta imagine, like, what effect did that have on your employees who are international?[Rob Tavi] It built a lot of the branding and it built the, as I said, you lead by example and really comes to be is like, everybody looks at me like, what is he doing? Why is he coming in with a camera? What does he have like logging? I have my iPhone with a little microphone on it and the little stick and running around and putting it on, like, what is he doing? I’m trying to, hey, everybody get in here. And as you know it, most people are shy like myself to get in front of the camera. They think they look different on camera than in person, which doesn’t make any sense because that was my challenge. I’m like, oh my God, my hair, my this, that, but we all look the same. So I started doing that and doing a little documentary and start making more videos and content and really putting in the reps, as you would say, putting in the reps, trying to put out there and say, okay, how can I build this branding? And come COVID as we come to COVID. So come to the first Q1 of February, I was at a trade conference where I was supposed to build branding, where I was trying to build, who is IBS with all these top C level people from all these companies that are hundreds of companies and much bigger than us, a hundred million, billion dollar companies. And how can I network with these people as a small company and build an image, build a brand. And we went in there. I was a little more outspoken than most people were on. I started videoing, that’s where it first started.[Alec] Really.[Rob Tavi] I went to that conference and I never done it. I was nervous. Every day. I did a recap of the show. And let’s go back to electronics industry. I’ll give you a little people too are listening. The electronics industry is an exciting as the bottom, but the demographic, yes, there is an older demographic. It’s very heavily male based. It’s about 80, 20 split cause it’s engineering. I mean, we’re the nerds and the geeks of developing, innovating all of this stuff. So it is, you walk in there and everybody’s wearing like, the suits as you call the suit. And it’s very, as a newcomer coming to this thing, it’s very challenging. How do you get your space? How do you get the time to talk to people? So all I did was I was the guy with the camera and I just start building more like, what’s he doing? I put a recap, I put it on LinkedIn. All of a sudden within that 24 hours, I had 2,500 views of that video of the first day. And all the people that was within this, I’m like, oh my God, cause people saw. I was like, what happening?[Alec] That’s sounds like the aha moment when you realized, because you couldn’t have met 2,500 people walking around inside that conference and then you had 2,500 eyes on you recapping the day, that had to had been like a, oh crap, I found something here.[Rob Tavi] So I found that what I was doing is I’ll just meeting everybody, many people, I could get their cards and I would just find them on LinkedIn. And I’ll link to all of them. And I’ll link to all of them like, okay, they will see my stuff, they will see what’s going on. And I can build that awareness by linking to them on a platform even though I don’t know that we met, handshake or what you’re doing in business or this person, hey, I really wanna schmooze with some of these top level people, but sometimes I don’t have that time or they’re always busy. So I’ll just link up with them.[Alec] Right, you’re just like shaking hands, like, oh yeah, nice to meet you, can I get a card? And you know, and you’re out.[Rob Tavi] So starting from there and I built some videos and then I took the risks and asked the president of the association who put on this whole, can I do a 15 minute interview with you? Five questions. And I’m like, he’s like, okay, I had a Bluetooth mic, I had my phone, I’m like, I had one of my marketing guys. Honestly guys, everybody listen, I was so nervous. I couldn’t even say it’s called Electronic Representatives Association. I couldn’t even say that. It was like, I was nervous again, guys. I was nervous. And I’m like, I just ended up saying ERA association because I couldn’t get it out. My heart was racing, my mouth was pounding, but then that’s just the experience. And I did that interview five questions, 15 minutes. And I posted that and I got a crazy amount of views again. And I started relating to people who is this? Who is this guy? What’s going on? What’s he doing? And then COVID hit and that was the most challenging part. We didn’t know, we’re going and through your friendship and we’ll be going and what I’ve been seeing, what you’ve been doing and staying with consistency, a hundred viewers, a hundred days, building all this stuff, showing up and being consistent. So I said, you know what? I wanna go all in. We’re gonna take some of our trade show budget because we have trade shows this year. We’re gonna build a studio and I’m just gonna build content and I’m just gonna go for it. And that’s from that aspect, I started building content. Of course I was, I’m like, I need my people to also do this. So I’m like, I got to lead by example and start doing this and I start putting my staff in front of the camera. Of course everybody’s embarrassed and what’s going on and start building branding over time. So that’s really what, and it’s funny from fast, if I go back to that time to the today, the amount of engagement and people that out there, cause how they always say the first thing they do is like, everybody like, he’s laughing at me. Like what’s this guy doing? It’s amusing to like, what is he trying to do? I don’t even know what to say. Like, this is weird. And seven months later, I’m having some of the people in the industry for 30, 40 year C[Rob Tavi]level people, people approaching me, people telling me, great job. I like what you do. And people coming on my “Real Talk” program. Which my following is very, the demographic is just my industry which is very small. And nobody in my industry.[Alec] I wanna pause on that cause people get confused. Like that’s such an important distinction. Like this is not about going viral. This is not about becoming famous and doing, and being like, yeah I’m getting on Ellen, like this is about making connection to the community you wanna be a part of and leading it. And so yeah, your audience on “Real Talk” should be, and hopefully we’ll continue to deepen in the people in your line of work in components. And that’s who you wanna be hanging out with anyway. And so some people get scared like, oh, I don’t know, I have to market this and I’m like, it’s not about that. They’re missing the point. And this is what I love hearing you just claim it because you have a unique voice in that industry now.[Rob Tavi] Yeah, I have a unique voice which I didn’t know I had a voice, but I’m creating something that’s from all the people that, I mean that of course, we all love the positive affirmation, but it’s just building awareness. And again, I am not selling anything. I didn’t go onto this thing to sell. I just said to, for myself, every person I interview or have a podcast with, it’s like a book, right? I ask them questions. I understand what they’re doing, their experiences. And everybody wants to know who’s the leadership in the industry, who are these companies? What’s the trials and tribulations successes. And how did they become this person? And it’s fascinating to understand that, it’s really fascinating. And I think it’s not done enough especially in my industry and nobody in the industry. Of course, audio podcasts, have been around for years, right? But today our psyches and everything, we’re attracted to video, video is much more engaging. The human connection is there. Cause you can’t get human connection over audio.[Alec] Not same not the same way.[Rob Tavi] Not same way, your tonalities aren’t the same. You interaction like me and you have interaction. We have our hands, we have a nonverbal, all this interaction builds human connection. I can see you. I can smile. And these are things that can be recorded 30 seconds, one minute clip. But it’s authentic.[Alec] So let me ask you this, you’ve been, you said seven months, has it “Real Talk been seven months?[Rob Tavi] “Real Talk.” Actually no, it didn’t. It didn’t start in, I started doing content. The “Real Talk” podcast officially started on Father’s Day.[Alec] That’s right.[Rob Tavi] Because of my father.[Alec] So how many podcasts have you done since then?[Rob Tavi] 20. [Alec] And what has been your experience from what has happened?[Rob Tavi] I’ve learned a lot of course, I’ve learned a lot but what’s happened is the engagement has come in. The people around of course, and the beginning, everybody says that people aren’t just gonna start coming to you. You have to go out and network with them, say, hey, I love what you do. And I wanna bring people on the show. Of course, I brought people in the close network that I knew and I’m like, I’d love to bring you on the show. I love to talk, to discuss things about you and the industry and supply chain engineering technology. And also to be honest my show is 70% industry, 3% lifestyle, lifestyle can everything going through. Cause I had Alicon he’s lending, but what he’s done for marketing and digital marketing space for is unbelievable. And he’s really showing everyday showing up, showing up every day, doing it and being selfless of showing the strengths and all the things I had to dig in and all the secrets behind it. It’s not a secret actually. It’s just, it’s simple. You can buy this, you can do this, you can have this. And as you guys probably some of you know, my personnel, I’ve seen Alec solo studio, it’s unbelievable. But it’s like, how did you do this? I mean that, mean it blows you away the infrastructure by looking behind the scenes, like, and it looks on the screen like, oh my God, doesn’t take that much.[Alec] No, and to your point earlier, it all starts with just a phone, for everybody. Just a phone and willingness be on the camera. And so I wanna ask you this question, I’ve seen more and more of your employees making content now, has that been organic? Have you been pushing them? What are any experiences they’re having they’re relaying to you? Like share with everybody that kind of thing?[Rob Tavi] Yeah, of course in the beginning, I tried to share everything with that and we did some practices. I told everybody, hey, let’s up go for 10 days. Let’s to problem solution, especially sales people. Let’s just record yourself with a problem, solution with a customer challenge and just recording every day for a minute, don’t put it out there. I don’t want you to put it out there. I want you to get comfortable in front of it, ’cause at the end of the day people are connecting with you because you have, ’cause you can go anywhere online and buy that one component from anybody else. I know that they like to connect with the human connection. Someone that builds value in who they are and being authentic and you can sell them with just being yourself and your personality. Then they can go anywhere else to buy them.[Alec] I just want every mortgage professional that hears this or watches this later, or listens to this, to understand the point that Rob has made. He working in components. Like you can buy them from a thousand places, right? And you as a mortgage professional, you sell not only a product like a mortgage, but you sell a service and a Consultation that goes along with that. And listen to Rob talking about his salespeople, like humanizing the process, making human connections. So they buy components from them. And it’s so crazy that it’s the same thing. It’s the same thing. Like people do business with people they like, and that they know, and that they trust.[Rob Tavi] It’s a simple formula. And again, I didn’t know, I was naive to it. I tried different things building, fancy websites, investing. Of course, that stuff does help for image. But at the end of the day, it’s the DNA of who they’re doing business with and who’s calling them on… And of course, if you have some branding, you put on any, you call somebody, oh, I remember that name. They will give you the 30 seconds or one minute to even engage with them. If they never saw the name, it’s just, it’s building the awareness and doing it indirectly by educating them, by showing them something that they don’t know. And just having fun with it, that this person is real. It’s just someone calling on the phone teller is like, make the calls like, hey, what are you doing? Those are your mortgage industry or you need components or whatever it is. There’s so much. I mean, we are, again, we’re a small potato company compared to these billion dollar companies and they have the branding. They have multimillion dollars of funding for marketing. We don’t.[Alec] But this is what I tell loan officers. Like they’re going up against Quicken who’s running Superbowl ads. Spending tens of millions of dollars year over year, building consumer brand recognition and a loan officer’s like, well what do I do? You do this stuff. You do exactly what Rob did with his business.[Rob Tavi] Yeah, you build the human connection. Of course, let’s go back to the how the employees took it. I started up making them do the phones and I wanted, first started with taking a photo. What you’re doing, show your daily routines, put something fun, something educational about you, right? You like sports. You like theater, you like music, whatever it is. Put it out there, of course, through COVID everybody’s locked down and LinkedIn again is one of our major platforms these days because everybody in the B2B business.[Alec] I don’t care if you’re B2B, like they’re just humans there.[Rob Tavi] They’re humans, yeah.[Alec] It’s an awesome platform. I cannot push people more strongly into LinkedIn.[Rob Tavi] And you know what the best part it’s free.[Alec] Shocker. By the way, so there’s premium. But I didn’t have premium until like last year. I did everything without the premium. ‘Cause I was like, why do I need this stupid premium thing? It just gives you the check mark. And then literally it does. There’s nothing else to it. Does nothing else besides a check mark. So maybe you can email somebody you don’t know, which is like.[Rob Tavi] Yeah, I mean limited free is only is only limited amount of prospecting you can do if you wanna do that and look up people. But I think it’s, I don’t know, 79, nine. I don’t know what it’s something like in that range, that return on investment as being a, as I say, a loan officer or a component sales person or whatever it is, that ROI is priceless.[Alec] Right.[Rob Tavi] Who you have that, I mean, there is, I think there’s over 600 million people now on LinkedIn and in my industry alone, 6 million people engineer’s technology. That’s 6 million people. And out of that, I’m like, wow,[Alec] You only want a couple of those million.[Rob Tavi] We don’t need it. We don’t need that many. As I said, it’s not about the quantity, also it’s the quality ’cause you can’t do business with everybody, but it’s just getting the awareness. I don’t know that it’s building awareness, touching the person, having touchpoints. How come I have more touch points without, because it is the email. We send emails out. We do phone calls. We try to do, but putting[Rob Tavi][Rob Tavi][Alec] That stuff is not as relevant anymore, it’s not as relevant anymore. Everyone gets a million emails. It’s fine, like we don’t want that anymore. What we want is more authentic, more connecting, more real and raw. We don’t wanna have a candy email that we know you buttered up for us.[Rob Tavi] Correct. So with my employees, they started posting pictures first. They started doing that. And now globally, it’s interesting. My Asia staff, especially my Philippines team and my India team they’ve really, they took this, they took it, they just went into it. They dug it and then just like you say, dig in. And they start creating content. One of my country managers, she creates content. They did a whole office opening, how they open their office with the staff, what’s going on. They have to do all, these are things that showing that we are humans, we all care about our people in what we’re doing. And myself too, I think the first five weeks, she did the 12 weeks, one video a week about the current status of our company, where are we going? How are people working?[Alec] Internal messaging.[Rob Tavi] Internal messaging and I did it external, and I sometimes took those videos or just threw them on LinkedIn to say, hey, this is how our company’s working, we have all our operations, except for, as I say, our Hong Kong and China was the only ones that really didn’t shut down for that long, everywhere else has been shut down, like were in the US for four or five months. And then Asia, India, Philippines, Singapore. We’re all feeling the same thing going through the same challenges at the same time. So if you can really relate to that and put that down and share it, you’ll be amazed the amount of engagement you can get.[Alec] Well, here’s something that I’d love for you to address. And anecdotally experientially, marketing has always had this underlying like ROI component, right? So like you talk marketing and people are like, what’s the ROI? I’m gonna do the trade show, what’s the ROI, what’s the spec, it’s gonna cost this much money, what do I think I can get out of it. And even trade shows have been hard to position an ROI. Like what is it? And in digital “Real Talk,” podcast and content creation messaging, internally and externally, how would you define the ROI of those efforts? How would you say this has been the return on my investment. What has been the return? And I don’t mean necessarily dollars. Break it down for people who ’cause everyone’s like, well, you’re running a podcast, what’s the ROI?[Rob Tavi] Alright, well, let’s break it down to what I said in the beginning, as I said, I wanted to expand my US presence and branding, how I wanted to reach and touch people for about three to four years. I’m like, how can I do this without all this big budgets and the digital aspect, let me do something and touch more people, and then trade shows and anything I wanna do by just building a brand digitally, right? Building the awareness of who we are, what we stand for. Of course we have our services. And what we do is we’re not selling that. We’re just trying to build who we are, what we do, and how we do it and the people behind it, right. The people behind it. So it wasn’t all about the podcast, but the touch points, I would say today, we’ve probably have, in the last seven months, if you wanna say that, probably have a hundred more key customers that we’ve built relationships. Thousands of eyes are on us, but about a hundred more customers have come in that we’ve starting to build new relationships, even during the time of COVID.[Alec] You see, I love this story, everybody, because it’s such a direct parallel to you as a loan professional me in my career trying to grow the LoanDepot franchise and meet good people. I mean, it’s such a parallel experience from selling components to selling loans. Marketing now is about connection and real human relationships and not about a fancy booth or a cool mailer or a catchy tagline, like that stuff had its day and it’s gone. I didn’t argue that commercials and all that stuff unless it’s the Gary, V’s always like commercials are garbage now unless it’s the Super Bowl. ‘Cause then people pay a lot of money to do the simple commercial there. But it’s like, I think that world ended and I think people are still trying to play it and not realizing that there’s this whole other space out here to jump into.[Rob Tavi] There is, I mean, you just have to be, as you say, be where the people are at, right? Be where the people are at, you gotta network where the people are at. And right now, that COVID has caused the pandemic to everything go digital. So we need to be with the people are at. So it doesn’t matter if you’re in Facebook or an Instagram or LinkedIn, you go where the people are at within that network to be able to build your brand associations and when they need something or they reach out, they have that thought of that person, or they recognize that brand and that person together and say, hey, you know what? I wanna reach out and say, I will give you opportunity, I have a question for you, about a loan or about a component or about an engineer. And then that’s where it all starts.[Alec] Yep. So there’s a guy named Ted Rubin who had been following on Twitter forever. Interesting branding, marketing guy, kind of a guru type ask person. And he has had this thing that has stuck with me for, I gotta say maybe five years plus I can’t even remember. It’s just always been in my mind. And he literally puts down ROI. Just says, don’t talk about ROI, ROI is garbage. He talks about ROR, which he says is return on relationship.[Rob Tavi] Relationships.[Alec] Return on relationship versus the return on investment. The return on relationship is where the real success happens. Because to your point like Rob, sometimes you don’t wanna work with certain customers. They might be great. They might give you a lot of money, but they might tear down your organization and be a cultural nightmare and all of that. You might want to push them to the side. So it’s all about relationship, even if you’re selling components.[Rob Tavi] Yeah. I don’t think it’s whatever you’re selling. Of course every customer is not for you. And it’s hard to tell that sometimes to the sales, but they don’t wanna hear it. But at the end of the day, you wanna fit in somewhere where there’s value built and where you both contribute together and build value as a customer and the customer relationship. And it builds a longterm… We’re not here for a one deal, one transaction. We’re here for the longterm. ‘Cause I also would have build this referral, right.[Alec] Yeah.[Rob] In our industry as a small industry as well. I mean, there’s a lot of engineers, buyers, commodity managers, and there’s a word of mouth, right? It’s like, oh, I had a great experience with them. Once you guys tried to go to IBS for this component or to go for this, or they go to other companies, they switched jobs to another factory. And that word of mouth for us was the most successful thing for us in Asia when we grew from the 80s, 90s, 2000s, but then it got more challenging ’cause now we were very well but in the States, we didn’t really have that as much. So I’m trying to, that’s the thing is to build the referral, built the service and build the education. Again, I’m not trying to sell anybody. I’m trying to educate of who we are, what we do, the service provided and at the end of the day they can decide, but just earning the seat at the table to get the opportunity is all asked for.[Alec] That is like the defining. If I could get everyone, every loan professional out there to hear that and understand that point, that’s the goal. Like you can have the most knowledge and be the best consultant and be the best person to talk to that customer. But if you don’t earn a seat at the table, they’re gonna do a loan somewhere else, dude. Okay, so you might not have a good answer for this part, but I wanna ask kind of a pivot a little bit.[Rob Tavi] Okay.[Alec] So you’re seven months into content creation, is mold into a podcast, 20 episodes and on the podcast. So I can tell you’re in the fluidity of the whole thing, but where do you see this going for you? Do you have a short term goal, long term goal? Are you just like, I’m just going by, I don’t even know what I’m doing. I’m just trying to experientially do this.[Rob] There were certain goals that I have of course, my goal was to do 50 podcasts by then the thing to build, to me it’s like I have to put the reps in to take the training wheels off, to understand the process of this and then build the awareness, but also is to bring on real key influencers, all leaders in the industry to learn from and to build up value in the last couple episodes that I have done with some people that have been in history 40 years there, they’ve really sold. Like they just keep telling me, this is as a pause, keep doing what you’re doing. Don’t change, right? Don’t change. You are onto something. And the challenge that some of these people, cause I reached out, I reached out to C[Rob Tavi]level people to get them on the podcast. But there’s a fear, they’re like who is this? And the thing is, yeah ’cause we’re the new generation and there is a fear of that because they don’t know what’s going on. And they’re like, how are they doing this? How can they build so much awareness? And for us and compared to different industries, on one thing that was a big awareness, like who are the leaders of all these big companies? You don’t see the messaging from them like you in different industries. The leaders aren’t very outspoken. Today, a lot of leaders are, I wanna work for that company because that leader is inspirational, right? In the components industry, the leaders aren’t the face, it’s really the brand and this account amount the components they sell, like the Texas Instruments or like Motorola or these type of things, Samsung, those are the. They associate them with the brand and those components they have, they don’t want to associate with the leader. And I’m like, well, the generations are changing. There’s succession happening. In five to 10 years a lot of these, I mean, honestly, a lot of the boomers, people are gonna succeed and who’s gonna take their spot and they have to lead. And also at least take that wisdom that these people have learned and built these very successful business and share it with a new generation. And I don’t see that happening. So that for me is building a platform to give everybody, I think to, hey, the wisdom is out there, the technology innovation. How can I build this and spread the awareness out there for everybody to give a platform to do.[Alec] Love it, dude, love it missionary, love where it’s heading. So, let me do this. You’ve covered it a little bit before, but I really want to have you just answer this question so everyone can hear you loud and clear. When you decided to make the leap. When you were like, I’m gonna start documenting, I’m gonna use my phone. I’m gonna start documenting. Go through your experience again, go through, did you get any negativity. What was that like, share there where like the real, like what made you keep going? Was there positive affirmation? Experientially, like, ’cause there’s so many people on the fence right now in my industry, in the world that are just like, should I do it? Should I get into this space? And so you decided to make the leap, walk everybody through your exact experience?[Rob Tavi] Well, actually starts from the beginning of our lives in school and stuff. As you say, it’s the security and being insecure, right. I was never the most secure person, what’s this stuff in school, I always got myself into some type of activity too, so I can, to fit in, right? So I was always trying to fit in and the camera, and I don’t know the way I looked, I didn’t like the way I looked, the way I sound, my skin is brown. It is these types of things that come in that you feel like you’re not part of the group or part of this. And that’s really rebuilds when you become older. So when I swore in to put myself in front of the camera.[Alec] All that stuff came back up.[Rob Tavi] It came back up and my insecurities came back up, the challenges I face, people trying to make fun of me. People say, I look like this. That’s from childhood. You do like this, I was, I’m a middle Eastern. And I had a lot of mustache when I was younger. So now I have a beard but these things that honestly come back and it takes us from childhood to today, I’m in my forties and now I still remember those things. But as I said, how do we overcome those challenges? And just, step forward, step out of that box. And there’s much more to it. So for me, I started taking the risk, taking, putting the phone and of course I got a nervous, like everybody else, you put that phone in front of you, you get nervous. And all the words, especially, you might be a great presenter. Like I was, can speak in front of my team, my staff and I just lost it. Some people have it naturally Alec has put in the reps and I think he has naturally, but because you’re fantastic in front of the camera.[Alec] So I’m gonna call out IBS on this and share a little tangent because I hear the same thing all the time. Like, well, I just can’t speak like this. And I’m like, okay, here’s what you do. I want you to get into your car every morning. And we can’t really drive to work, but pretend, and I want you to put the camera on a little thing on your dashboard and I want you to hit record. And I want you to talk to that camera for 275 episodes.[Rob Tavi] 275.[Alec] Something like that. I want you to do it for three to five minutes, three to five minutes record. And just talk to the camera about the topic that’s on your mind for three, for three to five minutes, 275 times. And then when you go on a podcast for someone’s like, on a video, you won’t freak out as much, but Rob, you’re putting the reps in. That’s the best[Rob Tavi][Rob Tavi][Rob Tavi] You put the reps in, I had to put the reps in. I had to take that from, I didn’t have technology. I didn’t know what to do. I didn’t know how to photo edits. I didn’t even know how to video editing. I don’t even know all this, the filters and this and that. I wasn’t very savvy on that. And I was learning it as I was going. And I was trying to figure this out. And I had my marketing guys. I’m like, we have to figure this out, okay. I mean, trust me, I tried to buy equipment, $50 mic, a Bluetooth microphone. I always consulted with YouTube, was like, and it was very challenging.[Alec] Put this back and get this question answered. Did you get any negativity from anybody?[Rob Tavi] From that? Honestly, the only people that give me crap is my friends and the family around me.[Alec] Isn’t, that’s the worst thing ever. Like everyone thinks that all the trolls are vetted out and it’s not them. It ends up being people who are close to us, who we love and who love us, who just dig the nail in a little bit.[Rob Tavi] You can have 99 likes and one negative. And that one negative will ruin those 99 likes for you, which is something that we have to get over. And like, this is not how it is.[Alec] You got negative feedback from family and friends. And how did you deal with it? [Rob Tavi] Of course, insecurities came over me. And then I was like, forget this, forget them. I’m just gonna go ahead. I’m gonna steamroll this. Of course I did read a lot. I watched a lot of the people. Of course, Gary V the latest people out there. Yourself that was doing it. I’m like, there are people, these are my friends will say, I have a close friend of mine doing it. He’s just doing it. He doesn’t have fear. And the best thing that you did is just guiding people, just put yourself out there. And you’ve always, as I said, you’ve always discussed these types of challenges. The insecurities people, people don’t care. They’re actually, I mean, in my opinion, there’s come some jealousy because you’re doing something they’re not, they’re not in the party. They’re not putting themselves on video. Like I wanna do that. How do I get on Facebook Live or LinkedIn Live or Twitter, or make a vlog or, and these type of things I wanna do. By the of the day you just have to take that risk and get over what the negative feedback is. Because within three months I did get over it. I learned.[Alec] Yeah.[Rob Tavi] And I kept pushing forward. Of course, was I, everybody listening to this is like, how did it feel? Like, do you keep wiping positive affirmations, positive affirmation? And then I realized, I put in my mindset, don’t worry about affirmation. Just keep being who you are. The people will watch. There’s a lot of people watching and they will be there and it keeps coming. So now wherever I go, it’s funny, seven months later, everybody remembers. I was really, I saw that episode. I saw that clip. I never even knew they engaged with it. I didn’t even know what they think, I’m like. You saw, I love what you said. I love the message there. I listened to this and I’m like, wow. And it’s coming from those people that were laughing at me, which was my close friends in the beginning. And now they’re actually applauding me. Like, that’s amazing.[Alec] And next they’re gonna ask for your help. I mean, that’s the circle of life right there my friend. Kyle, you do need to get a good wood backdrop. You’re way behind. We’re crushing you in the content game, have that wood paneling. Oh, she can’t do it. Can you really do a podcast if you don’t have wood paneling? I think the answer is you can’t.[Rob Tavi] But my theme came from you, so.[Alec] But that’s so true. Like, and I’ll share this for people that are listening and maybe trying to figure out how they can poke your head into this world. Here’s another way to put reps in. And it’s kind of weird and nerdy, but I love it. So when and I hang out, we have a couple other people in our little squad. And we tend now because Max is a maniac. He brings a mixing board, we hook it up. And instead of just sitting around, having bourbons and shooting the breeze, we have microphones and headsets on, and we’re sitting around drinking bourbons, shooting the breeze in like a podcast style environment.[Rob Tavi] Correct.[Alec] And someone’s like, oh God, I’m never doing that. And I’m like, look, it’s putting the reps in, like, we’re getting used hearing your own voice and being natural and having a microphone here and talking into it so you can hear everybody and it’s not. And again, everyone thinks you’re gonna go get famous. It’s not about getting famous. Even the people that laughed at me and the same people that laughed at you for trying to do this kind of stuff. It’s like, they don’t understand. I’m not trying to go viral. I’m not trying to be the next Joe Rogan. Like that’s not the purpose of this. The purpose of this is to have some fun and connect to other people and get my message out in the world. It’s marketing, I used to drop the flyers. That was my marketing. Now it’s this and this is way more fun.[Rob Tavi] And that analogy and what you’ve done is, as I said, leaders lead by example and you’re trying to lead and also show them the way and do it as being selfless with it. I mean, you are doing it week over week. You’re showing all your team, all the people in the public, how to do it and saying this isn’t rocket science guys. These are the putting in the reps. And just like you said, with our good friend, Max, he’s putting in the reps, he brought a mixing board. He didn’t know how it worked. So he’s trying to figure it out. And we did a three or four of them and he figured out this mixing board, how the sound works. So we put on the reps and we did it internally, but now he’s like, okay, now I can use this externally ’cause I figured out how it works. Again, you get a new gadget or you got a new camera. How do I use it? How’s it look? How would it look? Like I just don’t wanna go live or use this. I’m gonna look like a fool, ’cause nothing’s gonna work right. So he’s putting in the reps before he uses that piece of equipment. So it can give the best presentation or best sound or best quality. But again, that’s the time, is you have to put in those reps and the experience. And again, you go around and have people, friends and family, of course. Friends and family always supportive. Sometimes they can say, what is he doing? Where they’re spending money on?[Alec] Your friends and family that talk crap on you. They just kind of poke like, why are you doing that?[Rob Tavi] Like, what is he doing, right? Is that real? What is he doing? It’s like, it’s not, you know why? ‘Cause it’s not in square, right? We have a square. We’re not fitting in the square model of how everything’s supposed to be. We’re not fitting in the square. So when it’s outside the box or outside the square it’s what is that? What’s going on here? I don’t understand.[Alec] Well, I got a good challenge for you at the 40 minute mark, but I have a challenge for you and your company. I have a ch… I wanna see if you’re willing to do this with your group, because you’re all over, you’re international. And so I did this impromptu, so I hosted my first ever digital virtual sales rally. And I learned with Mikey how to do a virtual stage and how camera changes and you saw some of it. And one of the things I had to do, cause I had to buy time. I went too fast. I needed to like I had 10 minutes of like dead time and that’s death in a virtual event. In a live event you get up, throw Frisbee’s, giveaway stuff, but in a virtual event it’s like, we’re dead. So I did this and I wanna challenge you to do this with your entire company. I said, look, everybody has their phone right here, right? And you go to Facebook and you open it up. And there’s a little button in the upper left right here, upper right that says Live, right? So everyone had their phone up and on Zooms and there. And I said, okay, here’s what I want to do. I want you to, we’re all gonna take right now. Right now. We’re all gonna stop right now. You’re gonna hit the live button. And you’re gonna film one minute, minimum of a message of gratitude to somebody in your business life or personal life, just to say, thank you. A mentor, a business partner, a customer, a past customer. Somebody who has helped you in need, a family member, just a minute of gratitude. We’re all 600 of us. We’re gonna push out, live a minute of gratitude. And number one, I got everybody got, peer pressured into it. ‘Cause we’re all going. And I look, I know people didn’t do it. And of course, but I got so many people came back with a message of, I didn’t die. It was actually kind of fun. I go back and look and there’s hundreds of comments. There’s thousands of views on some of these. Cause they’re like, people are like, oh, you’re beautiful I miss you, how are you? Like thank you for the message. Like it is incredibly cool. And I bet if you got everybody at IBS Electronics to do a minute of live gratitude at the same time, if you can bring it with all the crazy times, I watched the IBS gratitude, just hit the industry. I think it would rock everybody. But that’s my challenge to you and your team next to see if you can hang it.[Rob Tavi] We are, which is funny as we’re gonna do. Cause it’s actually our 40th year next month. So we’re gonna do a little internal celebration, right? And I’m gonna do a little bit of an internal rally using some of the things similar to what you used. And this is, I wrote it down. I’m gonna pull this off and I’m gonna share this. And I think that Alec, sometimes you say you’re paving the path of this, but that’s happened. Messaging, gratitude of thinking of being out there. It goes a long way.[Alec] Well, you you’ve echoed this. And I have to make sure everyone hears you. ‘Cause you’ve said it three times in the podcast. When you come out and do a podcast or a video, or you put your message into the world, it’s never about selling. You’ve been so clear on that. It’s always about giving. It’s always about sharing. It’s always about collaborating and it’s never about selling. And, all of a sudden when I ask people to push a button and say something to thank somebody, it wasn’t as scary anymore to be on camera, live on Facebook. And when everybody frames their messaging like you have, and you just start giving into the world and not expecting, an ROI, some stupid BS, the impact you have is magnified intensely.[Rob Tavi] I a hundred percent agree. And that challenge is it’s funny. It’s like, everybody’s afraid to put something on, but it seems like in our personal life, the Facebook or the Instagram, people take stories of themselves, of their families, of what they do and where they go. There is no embarrassment. They’re okay, I guess. But when it comes to I think professional life, they’re very afraid to share that. They’re I’m like, well, you guys are already doing it. Why don’t you just move it to another platform? You don’t have to share everything. Just take a little nip, some bits of it, what you’re doing and share it family, business, going to work, what you did, a customer or something, whatever you’re doing and share that. And of course, you know how to use Instagram or Facebook and you curated or edit the video yourself. So you just take that and move it over there.[Alec] All right, so we’re hitting the end here. Here’s the final question. I know it’s crazy. Here’s the final question I’m gonna ask you. Let’s put you in front of a loan professional who is deciding whether or not to go all in on digital. They heard a bunch of stuff. They’re like, I don’t know. I kinda in a couple sentences, right, like a couple of quick hits. Like why should they do it? What are they gonna experience? What do you got for them?[Rob Tavi] First thing is you need to be where all the people are at. You need to be where they’re reading information and watching information. The second thing is what comes from there is building the awareness and building who you could be in, what you can do of relating. And that’s number one thing is you get to relate to the customer base. And all that, it comes back as I said, the insecurities come back ’cause you will get stuck getting affirmation. You start getting likes. People start watching this thing. It turns into a whole 360 machine. And as a loan officer or as a sales agent or whatever you’re in these things going on digital, will build the branding. Right now we can’t touch anybody. How do we reach out and touch somebody, right? We can’t reach out. So building a digital brand, putting your face with the name, putting the face with the family who we have behind you, who you’re supporting, who your group is, all this stuff really relates to the customer. They wanna know they can trust you. You come from somewhere, you have a background and they engage with you. And that whole 360 will build and build and you’ll build your confidence over and over. But again, it’s putting in the reps, going digital. It doesn’t take a lot of money. You can use it from a cell phone and that will come. And as I said, be organic, be original. Don’t have to cure everything, just be yourself. How many people will be attracted to authentic people that are just themselves.[Alec] That’s it. Man, I so appreciate you love being on the journey with you my brother. You’re awesome. Congratulations.[Rob Tavi] Thank you Alec for everything. Thank you for what you’re doing for the industry. All the industries everybody’s following you. And you’re selfless. Your personality is contagious and I love it. And thank you for having me on your show and hope to do more of these with you.[Alec] You’re the man. I will see you later my brother, everybody else peace out.[Rob Tavi] See you guys.

We’ve been talking about what you can do right to get ahead in the industry and progress digitally but let’s take a step back and talk about the mistakes made in the past. Join Neel Dhingra, a master content strategist and Me as we discuss our past mistakes so that you can learn from what we did wrong so that you won’t do the same

In this snippet of the Modern Lending Podcast…

• Do not chase the short term dollar
• Managing a person really isn’t dependent on their production.
• Solution oriented should be transparent, over-communicating will save you.
• Personal relationship should not remove you from your duty as a manager.

Episode Transcribe

[Alec] What’s up everybody. I hope your Thursday is amazing. Welcome to another live episode of the Modern Lending Podcast. We’re having technical difficulties but that’s what happens when you’re live. You just kinda, kinda roll with it. So I hope you enjoy. This time I’m joined by a buddy of mine in the industry, a content master, somebody who I look up to a lot. Who’s obviously killing it in personal production as well. We’re running a big team, but we decided we would talk about the worst mistakes we’ve ever made in our mortgage careers. One of the things I attribute to my success is the ability to learn from other people’s mistakes and not make them myself. But of course, I made a crap load. So without further ado, let’s bring on Neel and talk about the worst mistakes we’ve ever made. What’s up, dude.[Neel] What is going on, man.[Alec] We had to pivot from computer to phone and all this stuff. ‘Cause you never know when technology man.[Neel] Yeah, dude. We had to make it work. So hopefully this, hopefully everybody can hear me and see me, but yeah, I have a whole setup sort of like and for some reason it wouldn’t connect. So we just, I threw it out and we’re on the phone.[Alec] Yeah, dude. But that’s okay because we’re gonna talk about the worst things that’s ever happened when in our careers,[Neel] Yeah.[Alec] This is not one of those things. This is probably just a minor inconvenience so[Neel][Neel] Exactly dude.[Alec] Neel, for those guys who don’t know Neel you’re missing out on like one of the content leaders of the mortgage industry. You know, this, guy’s putting out incredible messages, inspirational stuff, tactics. I saw that this morning you’re giving away a road wireless podcast, a wireless thing, which I love these little things. That’s a pre[Neel][Neel] Yeah, yeah. Those are awesome, dude. I’ve been using those in content for the last year and that has been the most reliable mic. And the quality as you can probably attest to is amazing.[Alec] It’s amazing, it’s amazing. And so if you gonna follow Neel on his Instagram and the second handle, you get a chance to win one of those really cool. But Neel, you know, we talk so often and a lot of the times, you know, in our content strategy we’re super optimistic sharing tips and tricks tactics. You know, we’re kind of showing the glowy side of our business and then our energy to kinda help people, social media can always be filled with lots of negativity. The news is terrible, you know so, and I appreciate that about you and what you do but I thought that would be a fun conversation to just kind of go back at our careers and mortgage and take a look at some of the mistakes that we made in origination, from the little stuff to the mega stuff. And hopefully, you know, give people a chance to hear it laugh with us. And then, you know, at the same time maybe save somebody from making the same mistake.[Neel] Yeah, yeah, because I did a post about this recently. I said the shortcut to success is simply listening to others who have already done what you’re trying do.[Alec] Yeah.[Neel] Right, and you know, so many times we’re trying to figure things out and somebody’s doing it already. They’ve already found success. Just replicate it, put your own spin on it or ask for help. Like I’ve been amazed at like how helpful people are how willing people are to collaborate. If you’re someone that executes, that there’s a bunch of people that ask questions and never do shit. And then there’re those you know, then eventually get known to be one of these people who always talks and doesn’t do. And so, you know, I have tons of, I’ve had so many calls with people and they continually ask questions. And eventually I get to the point where I’m like, dude, just do it. Just try something at this point. Because if I see you like executing and I’m sure you feel the same way. Like if you see your team execute, dude you’ll bend over backwards to help them because they’re trying. But the guys who just keep talking and never do, those are the ones that you get like, you kinda get like, come on man we gotta get started there. So yeah, I think it’s just a matter of like you know, trying to get people to do what, just to try any of the 12 or 20 ideas that they have in their head. Just try one of them.[Alec] So for everybody watching and if you want to put in a comment or a bet here on who’s going to have the most biggest mistake. I have a bet with Neel. We’ll see who comes out on top on this one. So just to frame it up a little bit so Neel you’re actively producing, running a mega branch. What do you want pace to fund this year?[Neel] Dude, I don’t even know. It’s bad because I don’t even look at my numbers. I’m just shocked when I see them every month but I guess we’re at, what would it be if we’re doing 30 million a month?[Alec] That’s enough, that’s fine. 30 million a month on a production. It’s kind of, you know what your average loan balance about ’cause you’re in a Reno?[Neel] Yeah, it’s a, so our last month, our average loan size was 380.[Alec] There you go. And so we were chatting before the episode started you know, my last year originating. So I originated from 2003 effectively through 2008 and that was kinda my journey. And so I have plenty of mistakes I made in the origination side. And then when I got into leadership, plenty of mistakes there. So let me kick off with the first one kind of a low, like a low hanging fruit, and we’ll see if you can top me.[Neel] Okay.[Alec] So in my first year originating and so I’m, I’m very insecure. I don’t know what I’m doing. I’m trying to figure it out. You know, I have some knowledge I’m dangerous but you know, I don’t have any relationship at all. And I saw a buddy of mine, oh actually well let me frame this up. I saw a guy who was in the city next door in real estate. And I went to college with this guy. In fact we played on the UC Berkeley volleyball team together. So like I knew him right, like we’d probably gone to practices before. Like I spent probably two years playing with this guy. And so the problem was that in college you know, his focus was not necessarily on volleyball. It was kind of on, you know, we need it and so, Berkeley it’s fine, no judgment, but he was in real estate now. So I call him up and I get voicemail and I’m like, “Dude, like you’re in real estate I’m in mortgage. Like let’s get together and get a lunch. It’d be great to hang. I haven’t seen you since college,” hang the phone up, turn to my buddy and I go, “I cannot believe this guy. I, of course this guy’s in real estate, in college this guy was the biggest stoner of all time. So of course he’s selling real estate. What a joke.” And then all of a sudden I hear through the speaker, if you’re satisfied with your voice message you know, please hang up. If you’d like to erase and rerecord, press three. I panic, I freak out and I hang it up. And I sent the message.[Neel] Yeah, that is crazy. And why didn’t you hit the power button so you can erase the message.[Alec] Full panic, full panic.[Neel] Oh my God.[Alec] Sent it, he never called me back. I didn’t know if I should call him again. Like I just moved on.[Neel] Dude I’ve heard about it all time. I hear people reply all and you know, you’re talking crap about what’s on the email. I’ve seen some disasters. Luckily for me, I mean, I would, if I had one of those, I would beat you ’cause , I’ve had one off in my email before by mistake. But not, I think that one of the rookie mistakes is like you know, it’s funny at the same time, it’s really like just something that everyone needs to get over. You get so emotional in this business like, you know, so much is on the line with the deadlines and people, the referral partners are on you. And there’s movers and there’s escrow deadlines, and there’s these deadlines and it’s all on your shoulders. And when something goes wrong it’s like, I really feel like it’s like, you got dumped. Your body’s response is like, you literally got dumped in a ice cold water fight flight response. And that’s why people lose it. And a lot of these in real estate and mortgages because you get these, I don’t know, you just get like worked up and then go off on somebody. But I started and I hadn’t, I’ve never done. I’ve never sent somebody an email and then regretted it. But what I’ve done is I just had, typing it out and not sending, you know what I mean. Because like you type something now like if somebody really let you down, like I’ll type it out and then not send it and then come back to it, like with your palm down, you know what I mean.[Alec] Yeah, yeah. And by the way[Neel][Neel] It’s just a[Neel][Alec] I’m getting a little bit of the like robot cliquiness on the Wi[Neel]Fi. So just a heads up, but I know we’re powering through. So you’ve never sent an embarrassing email. You’ve never done a reply to all. You’ve been, you’ve dodged that your whole career?[Neel] Yeah, I don’t know if it’s some luck but I’ve had some near misses like, Oh crap and not done it. So I sort of do if I had sent, but as a mistake that I think a lot of people make is just getting caught up in historic term panic and then sending off something that you’re gonna regret[Alec] What’s up Arturo. Yeah, no doubt man. So you’re following the old, like write the email and then delete it, get the emotion out and then don’t send it.[Neel] Yeah I would just, just send it and then you’ll find you didn’t have to do it. You know what I mean.[Alec] Yep.[Neel] So I think, yeah, but one of the mistakes I made in the beginning what was probably versus, you know what I mean?[Alec] Yeah, you’ve shared this before so, you know, what did you learn? What were you doing and what was the mistake?[Neel] So I think in the beginning you feel like you need to like oversell yourself. So I would go into a meeting and do it. If I recorded these meetings I had with referral partners like I won’t be able to watch them back because they were so bad. Like you know what I mean, like it’s worse than like your videos. It’s more like, because it’s just so embarrassing. ‘Cause you keep talking about like, Oh I do this, we do this, and we do that. Like a yes man, you say we can do all of these things. You’re just trying like impress because you’re so desperate for them to the thumbs up, you know? And then to send you that first referral but you’re actually, it’s working against you, right.[Alec] It’s terrible. I watched, I got lucky cause I was too insecure to actually like talk through that kind of stuff and like actually pitch myself in the beginning. So I didn’t just like say hi and like ask them how their day was and like run away from like broker previews. But I literally watched a title rep walk into a real estate open house. I’m sitting there talking to the agent and then I said goodbye. And I was gonna go see the rest of the house and I heard the title rep from the other room, literally like corner the agent and be like, “Why aren’t you sending me business?” And I was like, Oh my God, that’s so uncomfortable. Like how I’m like, can you just picture the agent being like “Cause I don’t like you,” like, what do you say? Like it’s such the wrong approach.[Neel] Yeah, it’s so awkward, right. And just making that awkwardness is like why they would never use you ever again, you know what I mean. Like, or even consider using you. And I think people are putting, you know, just that used car salesman kind of attitude or scripting, or whatever that is. It’s just the other party feels so awkward. So I think I had plenty of meetings like that and I wish I could redo all of them because like, dude it’s just embarrassing, you know. But the point is, I think you’d probably have to go through those to get to the good ones, same thing with content. So I guess it just comes with it. But yeah, I think a major mistake I made was not being confident in what I had to offer, you know what I mean. So there’s many things I had to offer, but because I didn’t have the confidence I was overselling and then it comes across wrong.[Alec] So speaking of not having the confidence so I have a story when I was young, I decided that I was going to be a sales manager and try to grow a team. And so I went, and I’m personally producing I was funding, you know, 8 to 10 million a month and I’m running around trying to hire loan officers. And at 24, you know, who wants to, who’s going to work for you? You know you’re like, I was like a year in the business. So I found some loan officers and I convinced them to come like try to work around me in my little satellite office. And I had just one loan officer who was just this huge talent but couldn’t execute and just kept failing and not. And all of a sudden this guy came to me and said, “I need money.” And I was so personally attached to this guy that I was like, “Okay, I’ll try to help you. Like, what do you need?” And he’s like “I need five grand,” and gave me this whole sad story. And you know, I’m like, “Sure dude I’ll lend you money.” Gave him five grand. And he left the country the next week. Like not a joke, like actually left the country.[Neel] Whoa.[Alec] And from then on, I realized that, that wasn’t a good move.[Neel] That’s crazy. Have you had, what have you had as far as like mistakes you’ve made with regards to like hiring and firing and things like that. ‘Cause I think we’ve all had those kinds of mistakes, right?[Alec] Oh, massive ones. I mean, so when I started trying to become a leader whatever that means, and that’s kind of like a perpetual journey forever. You know, man we chase top producers, right. Like you chase top producers. Yeah, like I wanna notch the belt. I wanna get a victory. I wanna hire this guy or this girl. And you go after these top producers and you can blow up your entire office with a terrible culture fit. And so, you know, and you, you get all, you get kinda your eyes get all big. It’s almost like chasing that top realtor too. Like you get all like, Oh my God, that top realtor like that, the number one person. And like in my experience, the number one realtor in a lot of markets is always just a train wreck. And like they’re competent and they do a lot of business, but they’ll blow your whole career up. Like they’ll blow up your business, your office. And the same thing happened with me several times is just you know, a wrong culture fit. I get excited. ‘Cause I’m like, I see the numbers. I’m like, I’m gonna land this whale. I’m gonna hire this guy or girl. And then a year to two years later, it’s like just ending violently because it just wasn’t a good fit. And I’m like, man, what could I also have done in those, that year to two years. If I just had gone a different direction. So I get kinda[Neel][Neel] The middle producer is like the best one. I have the same, I think we’ve gone after the same mistakes. You look at that list of production list and you’re going after the top referral partners, the top guys and those guys, aren’t your best referral partners. I have relationships with some of those people and they’re great. But to be honest, the ones that do the most, we do the most business with are in that middle pocket. You know, they’re just steady, consistent. And they refer you because you have a real trust there and a real value that you guys provide each other. You’re true partners, like to say, like I’m an extension of that guy sales team and vice versa. So like I think what a lot of LOS don’t get is that, what we say and what we do, can really impact a buyer’s decision. So it’s not just a vendor like, “Hey man, can you use me things like that.” Start on home warranties. I mean, don’t be just low stuck just another vendor. Because we’re talking to these clients in the very beginning and what we can say, like what we do, how we attach mantle opportunity to this whole transaction. Like that’s huge impact to whether somebody even moves forward. And I think like once your referral partner gets that that you’re true partner on their sales team, now it’s just a totally different type of relationship. And some guys get that. And I noticed the guys who are big producers they don’t care. They’re like, “Dude, I’m so big. I’m crushing it. I don’t need help. I just need someone to close the deal. And if you don’t close it, then you’re out.” You know, that’s the kind of relationship.[Alec] I mean, I think the biggest mistake I made and had to learn through, and I know everyone else did in there, that has become successful through origination, was just finding the right partners, right. Like not being greedy not being like, you know, I track the top 100. That was my, when I started as a newbie I was like, here’s the top 100. And I was hunting all the top 100 agents. Well that wasn’t smart. They’re not necessarily the best cultural fit for me. You know, they do a lots of production, but you know I probably spin my wheel a lot with a lot of those people. And then, you know, abusive agents who just take you for granted like you’re talking about who just want to beat you up and cause you so much stress and pressure. And you are like, and you take it on, because you’re like, I want the money. I want the business. And that’s a huge mistake that everyone I think learns through as they kind of hopefully mature through it. But I still know some really great loan officers that are stuck in that space. And I’m like, you’ve been a loan officer for 15 years. Stop, stop the cycle on your life.[Neel] I have that. This is a mistake I made for years. And probably people like you said, 10 year veterans they’ll make this mistake. It’s chasing short term dollars over longterm benefits. So I think it’s like you’re always looking for the next deal. You’re always looking at, you know, things transactionally and less about the relationships. So I think like at some point something changes then you’re like okay, I’m gonna switch from transactional to relationship. When you have a relationship driven business. Now it’s totally different. Stop looking for your next one deal. You’re looking for your next hundred deals. Looking for a relationship that’s gonna produce that. And so I think chasing short term dollars is the number one vulnerability of all the loan officers including myself but, you know, just until recently.[Alec] So I got another really good one. And I think you probably have several of these too that you’ve probably learned for but in packaging loans or even in managing people, you know sometimes there’s a problem that’s gonna happen. Like you see the problem on the loan. You’re like, Oh crap. Like this is a problem. And instead of going and addressing it with the customer and the realtor being like this is a problem I’m working on solutions. Some people, especially myself I tended to go tryna’ find solutions first. And that’s fast if you can be really fast at finding solutions, but if it’s taking a long time and all of a sudden the customer and the realtor, and everyone thinks everything’s going great. And it’s not there’s a big problem and you’re trying to solve it and not, you haven’t alerted everybody. It’s just, that to me is a major rookie mistake. And if you’re dealing with personnel and like somebody is acting up or they’re out of culture or they’re beaten up underwriters, and you’re just kinda like not addressing it fast you’re letting it cook like that, that caused me undue stress and problems in my career. It’s just like, when there’s a problem just tell everybody there’s a problem. And then come at it from a solutions oriented position. But I don’t know. I mean, that was a big learning curve for me was like trying to solve stuff without telling people, “Hey, this is actually gonna be a problem.”[Neel] Yeah, under[Neel]communicating. So Dick, if you over[Neel]communicate in this business it helps everything with staff, with our full partners with borrowers, like everything it works with. So I just try to, I used to do the same thing of just hope something doesn’t get, you know it doesn’t come up and then inevitably it does come up. Then you get, you know, you get hosed at the very end. So that is a rookie mistake. And it goes all the way through veterans. Now, you’re just hoping.[Alec] Of course it’s like, that thing with like a low appraisal. A low appraisal comes in and you don’t tell anybody ’cause you’re trying to fix it or renegotiate it. And like, everyone’s like, “Was the appraisal back?” And now you’re like, you’re kind of lying. And like, you’re, you’re just like stop. Like just immediately, like it’s low. Yeah, maybe they’re mad at you or the realtor blames you for some reason that the appraisal came in low or but like, you gotta tell people what’s going on.[Neel] I respect you more if you shoot straight. So I have relationships with people and if I, if you call them Alec and you’re like, “Hey dude why do you like working with Neel?” “He shoots me straight.” That’s it. It’s all it is, like just somebody’s like, okay you’ve written an escrow for 25 days in a market where appraisals are taking 30. Okay, we’re not gonna, I’ma tell you that on day one. You know what I mean. Like depending on the situation, yeah. I’m gonna try and rush it. I’m gonna do the best I can. But I just want to let you know right upfront that this may not work because of the environment. And I don’t wanna mislead anybody. So I don’t want people scheduling movers and installation of this and that. And then I’m gonna be the guy that lets everybody down at the end. So I need to tell you this right now. And they will say, “Thank you for telling me.” Like, it’s not, they’re not gonna rip your head off.[Alec] By the way, If anybody watching has a great horror story of a mistake, share it. ‘Cause I’d love to hear you. Don’t name names, don’t name names. But like just if you have, ’cause like here’s where my head went and you know, like I had a situation where we’re under a lot of pressure right now, specifically like this happened like last week. There’s just a lotta loans and I wish we knew that every loan officer was going to put in six loans instead of their normal two. But like we didn’t know. And this is now in a position where a lot of companies are impacted. We’re hiring the world. We’re trying to get ahead of the, you know, the whole curve. And I had a loan officer who had an upset customer. And so she was like, I have to hit docs on this refi and like, well we’re prioritizing purchases right now. And, and we’ll get to the refi but maybe just give him an extension give him a credit, you know tell him I’ll call him and say, we’re sorry but like they’re still living in their home. And we got somebody’s moving van, we got to get this done. And all of a sudden, what I found out was she was like she sent me the text chain with this upset customer to kinda show me how upset the customer was. And I scrolled down and the loan officer had committed to docs to the customer, right. Like, so like the pressure from the customer, cause this loan officer to tell them docs will be out next week. Which is not reality. They just bent to the pressure. And now they’re trying to you know, shove it through the system because they committed to something that isn’t happening.[Neel] Yeah, so this is trying to please everyone. This is the, you can add that to the top list of loan officer fails, trying to please everyone. By trying to please everyone you’re not. Because you’re, people know you then as someone who’s unreliable. Because your word is your bond, right. That’s your reputation. That’s our brand. Our personal brand is our reputation. I mean, if nobody understands personal branding it just means reputation, right. So trying to please someone and over promising that’s gotta be a T[Neel]shirt or something a sign on a wall and there’s over promising. It’s like the number one fail. Every loan officer across the NGO over promising.[Alec] We’ve all done it, I’ve done it. I’ve made mistakes. I wanted that realtor, I just said, “Oh yeah, I could do it.” And like, I know knowing I couldn’t do it. I had to go like, we’ve all done this mistake. And it’s a killer, it’s a killer.[Neel] Well, they’re, some people are pushing very hard. So I totally get it. I feel that pressure. They call you and they’re like, “Can you do this?” And you say, “No, that’s not gonna work.” “Well, can you do it anyway?” They do, they just said no.[Alec] Yeah, or they start threatening you or they start, you know, they like well, they call your boss and they call the CEO. And they’re just, it’s hard. It’s hard to lead through it with transparency.[Neel] Yeah, so yeah, over promising and under delivering, that’s a huge one. I think another one is talking, not listening. So you’re telling your staff to do this, this, this, and they’re not doing it. Well, what’s the problem. Maybe there’s a system problem. Maybe there’s something that’s making their jobs more difficult and not looking for the real solution. So you’re looking at the flare up like the end of the line problem, but you’re not going back to the root issue, which is like, “Hey, when we put the loans in, there’s this thing that’s not being done. And it’s causing this huge delay throughout the whole process this huge headache on this person.” Now this person’s losing it at the end but we could have fixed this thing in the beginning. You know, So I think like just every I don’t know what the saying is but they’re putting like gum and, or like, look we’re not plugging holes in this business all the time. You know what I mean, like, it’s not like we’re not fixing the leak the main fucking leak that’s way down the road. We’re just plugging the holes at the end here.[Alec] Totally, okay, so here’s a good one from management and leadership that I experienced in, let’s do what you got here, but I had a like aha moment. So this goes back into 2010. And so I was at Bank of America because Countrywide was acquired, the crisis went down, the world had ended, but in 2010, you know my branch that year did a $1 billion a $1,000,000,050. So[Neel][Neel] Jesus.[Alec] Every percent of refi, it felt a lot like, like this we weren’t in the two’s but it was like, there was literally falling from the sky. And I had built my entire career up to then on the purchase market. All on realtors, all on builders all on like what I was been taught as sustainable business. ‘Cause refis come and go, and this is the bread and butter. And so at some point I was so dissatisfied with the company that I was gonna make a transition to a non[Neel]bank, that was more purchase[Neel]centric that could close loans on time. And the team who I just, I had a tight connection with these people. Like several of them just absolutely broke my heart because they came with me, but then they went back. And I was like, what, we were so tight. And I, what happened? And I learned one of the biggest life lessons of my career which was, you know, I became super resentful. I’m like, you left the team, you left me. I thought I was your leader, all this stuff. And what I learned was everyone’s on different journeys. And we might be on the same journey for a period of time together, but some point, you know, for some of these guys, like they wanted to make that refi money. They wanted to make that refi money and going out, getting purchased was brutal. You know, and there’s refis at the bank. There’s falling from the sky and they wanted to make that money. And I was like, I was judging them for not having longterm perspective. I was resentful for leaving the team. And then I had to realize we’re just not on the same journey anymore. And, you know, go with God, like go do you. But it was a major life lesson for me because it really emotionally affected me. Until I realized that in life, we’re not always on the same journey forever with the people around us. It might be for a period of time. It might be for our whole life. It might be for five years. But at some point, if somebody decides they wanna go on a different journey and you wanna stay true to yours, I got a lotta freedom from kinda going through that experience. It hurt me a lot, but I learned a lot from it.[Neel] Yeah, I had that same thing where, you know, the guys, we started with and the girls we started with then, you know we worked for a company. That company was and kind of, we kind of assumed we’re all gonna go together. And then you find out, you know, a month or two later that this person’s going somewhere else. And he didn’t tell you, or this person’s going here. She’s starting her own thing. And you hold like, dude, I held those like that resentment for that kind of like angry at that person for like it almost felt like abandoned, you know what I mean?[Alec] Yeah of course.[Neel] Like, and then you’re like being ultra competitive with that person, like to get them. There’s no point it’s stupid but I’ve, I have people like, to this day, I know in the, in the business and I’m like, “Hey, what do you think of so and so. Hey, she’s crushing it, he’s crushing it. Dude, I hate that guy man. We used to work together and he bailed on me.” I’m like, “What do you mean? Dude that was a decade ago bro, what are you talking about?” Like they’re still holding onto it, you know what I mean?[Alec] Yeah, and that is a, it’s a cancer, right. You gotta like cut that out. ‘Cause it’s gonna hold you back. It held me back from like letting go. And so it was a tough experience, you know. But the other mistake I made in leadership was I had a really close employee who had worked for me for like almost a decade. And you know, we’re buddies. ‘Cause as you worked together for a long time you know, the personal commingles, you know you just kinda start to build relationship. And I promoted him to a branch manager position when I had a manager retire. And I’m like you’re ready for this. You’re the man for this. Like, do you want this? And, he said yes. And then he took the job and I kinda took my eye off him. I was like, cause he’s like, he’s a stud he’s a total stud. Now he’s got this dude. And all of a sudden, a few years later he resigns and I’m like, what? Like what are you talking about? Like how, and what happened was I just wasn’t connecting with him and asking him “Are you okay?” “Do you like this?” He was doing a great job. I’m like, “Are you happy?” And turns out he wasn’t happy. He didn’t like it. He didn’t like leading loan officers that he had inherited. He didn’t like the job. He felt like they were all whiny and pain in the butt and all that stuff. And I was off doing growing branches, doing other stuff. And I never took the time to come back and be like, “Dude are you good?” Because you’re presenting as good. So I don’t see any smoke. I don’t see any fire. And all the time underneath the surface is dissatisfaction, you know. And he left and it broke my heart again. And I realized shit, like that’s on me. Like I coulda’ helped him, find another opportunity. I coulda’ done lots of different things but I just didn’t even on a deep, personal level to be like, are you happy in the role you’re in? Even though you’re presenting happy, are you really happy? And, and[Neel][Neel] That’s right, yeah what you just said, like, I don’t know, it just clicked with me. This is what we, everybody needs to right now in this business. If you did not know, we’re making jokes and there’s a lot of fun with learning from mistakes, but this is super important right now. Like our people, our ops people, are our biggest asset today. Like you just, if anything you have to know right now that your team and your people are the most important because you can’t do this. You can’t be a one man show, you can’t do any of this stuff on your own and how you can get stuff done is through a great team and great people. So I forgot you just reminded me like, I need ask every single person on my team. Hey dude like, are you okay? Is everything like, what’s going on? You know, and you just get so caught up in the, you know, work, work, work, work work. And are you, how many times are you asking them? And I think like that could be the difference for somebody, you know maybe they, they feel like we’re just using an abusing them. And really we do care about them. We just don’t say it, you know enough.[Alec] Yeah, I mean, you’re saying it, but we get, Jason what’s up dude?. We get stuck on our own stuff. We’re so focused by nature as a species for like self preservation. Like, so we just, we go internal a ton and you’re right. Like that’s a mistake. We need to go external and check in with people. And it was when I learned and I’m still, I still struggle with it. ‘Cause all of a sudden I’ll be like “Oh my God, I haven’t talked to that person in like two weeks, are they okay? Should I call them?” Crap, happens to me[Neel][Neel] Just sending, sending a quick message. I thought this the other day on Instagram DM from another, from a colleague who’s not even in our company. And he sees all the stuff I’m doing and he’s sending a voice memo. And then he said, “Hey dude, love your stuff. I see you’re crushing it. I just wanna check it with you, dude. How are you managing all this stuff? Are you okay?”[Alec] That’s cool.[Neel] And I was like, “Dude, actually, yeah,” You know I posted the highlight reel but behind this like front, there’s a lot of shit going on. You know what I mean, like it’s a struggle. Like, you know, managing people, complaints, all these people are coming to you with all their problems. And then you have your personal life family, kids, you know, pandemic, school issues. Like there’s a lot going on right now. And just someone saying that they care is super important, especially right now.[Neel] By the way that reminds me of like, what you are trying to live by that I’m still not doing a great job on which is, everybody who’s gonna get a text, or a voicemail, or an email from you is gonna receive that in this mental head space they’re in. So if their dog just died and you just sent him a text of like, “Hey, can I get knocks today?” You’ve got him in a really negative way. And you just were probably just like “Hey are we getting knocks today?” like that’s like the Key and Peele skit with like the misinterpreted exchange. Have you seen that thing? It’s incredibly[Neel][Alec] Yeah, yeah. Dude, this is the problem. You just brought it up, okay. Adding tone to someone’s text is a major stake okay. Just read it flat or read it with a smile. Someone says, “Hey, what’s going on with this file?” You could say that mean or you could say, “What’s going on with this file.” Like say with a smile, I don’t know. But people are like adding a negative tone to everything written. ‘Cause like right now nobody would pick up the phone. We use instant messaging, DM’s, texts, right. So they’re adding all this tone and I’ve seen people get into full blow outs with other staff members and the person that they’re mad at didn’t even intend anything that this person interpreted like completely wrong, you know. So that’s a huge mistake going on right now especially in an age of text only communications, no phone no context, you know, no face behind it. So I would just say this add an emoji to your requests. You know what I did, with my team, by my staff, who helps this, we have a whole, we have a staff of about a hundred people in India, that helps us with like docs and CDs and things like that. We have an offshore, and those guys I’m friends with all them on Facebook. They message me and they’re like, “Are you a celebrity in America?” I’m like, “No, dude, I’m just a regular dude in Reno, Nevada.” But they’re like, they’re just, they’re so enamored by everything going on in the U.S. You know, ’cause in other countries, I think that’s one thing we don’t realize here is how good we have it here in the U.S. But these guys I’ve become friends with all of them and so when I ask them for something, I’m like, “Hey man, I noticed this didn’t get done. Can you please get this out?” And add in an emoji, that’s contextual to them. So like, you know the thank you emoji like this, you know, because they would understand that in India or, you know, just something like that. And those guys really feel like you’re empathetic to what they’re going through or just a fist bump or, you know, when it gets done, send a high five, nobody’s doing that.[Neel] Nobody’s doing that.[Alec] Nothing, so.[Neel] All right, I got my last one here. We’re hitting the end. So if you saved your big[Neel][Alec] I did. mistake to the end, let’s, you can go after me. You can top it. So I grew up in a household with strict parents but also a really strict code of personal responsibility. Like and I had great mentors, you know, I always tell the story like on the basketball team when we were winning CIF, I was the point guard. And during this one play, a power forward, the best player on our team, you know, he’s supposed to hold a fist out. If he’s gonna cut back door and that’s a little basketball speak. If he’s gonna come out, cut back door, he’s supposed to hold a fist so that I don’t pass the ball to the air, while he’s turning the other way and going back towards the pool. So in this one play, he didn’t hold the fist out. He cuts back door. I just sail the ball into the audience. ‘Cause he cut when I didn’t think he was gonna cut. And I’m yelling at him at the break and the coach just stops everything. And he’s like, “Who threw the ball?” He just shuts it all down, he’s like, “Who threw the ball?” And I was like, “I did.” ‘Cause I kept making excuses like, well, he didn’t put his fist out and he didn’t, and the coach was like, “Who threw the ball?” So I grew up with a tons of personal accountability. And one of my favorite phrases is the grass is never greener somewhere else. And I built my entire career on this. I would struggle and strive and be like, I gotta mow my grass. I gotta take care of my garden. I got to stay here. I got to grow this thing and grow this thing. And anybody in the way, grass is not greener. Like keep going, keep going until I was sitting in the dead bones of Countrywide up in Calabasas. After Bank of America took over in Angelo Mozilo’s old office with a guy named Matt Vernon who was running Bank of America Home Loans after the crisis. And I had worked at Bank of America now for two and a half years built my brand, continued to build the branch no excuses to the number one branch in the country. And we were dying, because we had no operational support felt very similar to this, just dying. My branch was originating 400 million a month and only able to fund a hundred million, dying. And I’m like, I will hire everybody, I will bring them on. Just give me the permission. I’ll hire everyone. I’m sitting in this guy’s office, ’cause everyone was just telling me side stories. And he goes, “I know you can hire everyone Alec, but we’re not going to do it.” And I’m like, “Why? You have so many customers who we’re just destroying, who are so angry.” Neel, back then, in my market in Southern California realtors were writing in their contract, “We will not accept loans from Bank of America.” In the contracts, like that gnarly. And so I’m sitting here like, “Why?” And he goes, “We’re meeting shareholder demand. In fact, we’re exceeding shareholder demand for the mortgage division. We’re gonna blow through all the numbers. And the enterprise is more important than your loan officers. And the customers they’ll just cancel and go somewhere else. And it’s okay.” And I was like, “Wow, you know, everyone else besides you was not telling me that, they were telling me, ‘Help is coming, we’re working on it,’ and I’m like, you’re not, it’s been a year. You’re not working on it.” And then I realized that no matter how hard you believe in personal accountability, this is not, mortgage is a team sport. Like you said earlier Neel, like with operations, if they were gone today you’re, we’re screwed. It’s over. Like you can’t, you don’t get to do loans. Life is a team sport. And if you’re not all pulling on the same side of the rope, I don’t care how much personal responsibility you have. If someone’s taking a crap on your garden that you’re tending behind you, wearing the same Jersey as you? Like that’s not true. And that was hard for me ’cause I had never left the company. I was ride or die, personal responsibility. Grass is never greener. And then I got this crazy moment where I was like, hold on. It’s not about the grass is greener. It’s not about devaluing personal responsibility. That’s still massively core to anybody’s level of success. But you gotta be on a team where people are going rowing the same direction or you’ll never get to where you’re trying to go. And so, you know, it kind of just, it was a learning lesson ’cause I spent three years at the bank and I always wonder like what could I have done if I woulda have realized that earlier?[Neel] Yeah.[Alec] It was, it’s just one of those moments where I’m like man, that was three years. That’s a lot of time I could have been doing something, building something. And then I took this lesson from you too. I guess this is hand in hand with this is, I wish I would have gotten to social media earlier, like five years ago. I wish I would have focused on this space that we’re hanging out in, in a serious way. Like[Neel][Neel] Yeah this is a, this is a huge thing in our business. I had one, I had two things, you know, kind of to wrap up of like, what, you know mistakes that I think people are making and they could improve on. And a lot of them are tactical, you know, they’re little tactical but what you just said kind of made me think of something that’s even more important. It’s this, you know, what is the average age of a loan officer that is like, isn’t it old?[Alec] 50, 50 plus.[Neel] Okay, it’s old, we’re old guys and realtors too right?[Alec] Yeah.[Neel] I’m thinking, a lot of guys I deal with are late forties, you know, real estate agents. I think we’re plagued in this industry in particular by shoulda, woulda, coulda, right. I should have done, I should have done, I should have been on IG five years ago. I should have been on this, I shouldn’t have. Dude I’ve wasted years at a company not growing my business just being transactional and you know, going month to month and this huge roller coaster of ups and then I’m down for months because I didn’t prospect. And I had to know like, I was just bringing a hamster wheel out there, had no sustainable business. So in an industry where everybody’s plagued by shoulda, woulda, coulda is like, it’s just the wrong mindset because you have to think about this. I thought it was too late to make a shift and cause I’m in, I don’t even know how old I am. I’m in late thirties now. So like, dude, I still have 30 years of work left in me, dude. You know what I mean, like what are we talking about? So I know it’s you hear this cliche like, it’s not too late, but dude, it really is. If you’re in your thirties and you’re like, dude, I haven’t even started social. I’m still doing the sales. You know, the transactional sales model. I don’t have the right relationships. I don’t have the right team. All is lost. So many people get in that mindset and then they just never make the change. But there’s plenty of time to make any change that you want. It doesn’t like how many times does people say this? Well, we’ve had a bull run and in mortgages and real estate for the past decade and so it’s probably coming to an end. So, you know, I don’t, I’m not gonna like grow my team. I’m just gonna ride it out until the next crash. So like there is no crash coming probably in certain markets, you know it’s not gonna be the same type of event that occurred. The 2008 was a once in a lifetime event you can’t plan for another once in a lifetime event. So I think that getting out of that shoulda woulda coulda and just making the changes you need to make, that is huge. That’s advice that anybody could, could implement and like probably change their business and life right now.[Alec] Dude that’s actually the perfect message to end on. ‘Cause I can’t, I could not echo and agree with that more. It’s like everyone, you know, Gary V says it all the time too. He’s like, you’re young. You gotta start now, start now. And see what you can accomplish in the next 10, 20, 30 years. There’s plenty of time left.[Neel] But you know, people think he’s talking to 25 year olds. He’s talking to you 42 year old Bob, who doesn’t, isn’t where they wanna be, business wise and financially. What could you do in 10 years? Just think about what you can do in 10 years. Like you could start from dude, I could, you can take away everything. I could start from scratch. And just knowing what I know, you know. So all the failures, all the mistakes, like this is the topic of the today’s thing, Mistakes. All those are gonna be the reason why something awesome happens in the next two years. Or they’re gonna be the reason why you get to where you’re gonna be in five years. So don’t think of it like, you know, as really mistakes just think about like, I just did a post about this. I said, “There’s value in failing because then you know how to win.”[Alec] Yeah. I mean, look, I would not be where I’m at or who I am without the massive mistakes I’ve made. Right, they grow you, they teach you. If you don’t make mistakes, you’re not playing the game. And so I look back and I laugh. I make sure I hang up my phone every time now. I got the picture. That when I’m hiring somebody, I look deep into their soul and be like, are we a good culture fit? Like I make way different decisions that cause me less pain and hopefully, and ideally bring me more success because of the mistakes that I’ve made.[Neel] The only way you can learn it’s like learning by doing right.[Alec] Well, dude, you’re the man. Thank you for rapping with me for 45 minutes about the mistakes we’ve made. I’m sure we’ll make many more, come back a year and talk[Neel][Neel] Yes, I’m gonna make some today. So, and sorry dude about my connection. If it was messed up, I had to, I don’t know what’s going on here tech[Neel]wise, but we rolled with it.[Alec] You know what, people are gonna appreciate it more because there’s no BS dude. Sometimes phones don’t work. What are you gonna do? You know, like you’re gonna move on close loans. Neel, thank you, dude. Have a wonderful rest of your day for everybody out there. Stay safe and we’ll see you on the internet.[Neel] All right, thank you.

This week we are making a pivot and talk about increasing the reach of our industry with Tony Thompson and NAMMBA’s VISIONARY program. We are going to dive into the origin of NAMMBA and what it’s doing in mortgage industry today.

In this snippet of the Modern Lending Podcast…

• NAMMBA’s Origin
• The Visionary Program
• What we need to do for our industry now for the future
• How you can help increase the reach to the next generation of mortgage

Episode Transcribe

[Alec] Ladies and gentleman, welcome! To another Modern Lending podcast live! By the way if you’re watching this in the future, hit me up with the hashtag bypass, I love it. But today, we’re gonna be talking about a really great organization called NAMMBA. NAMMBA is the National Association of Minority Mortgage Bankers of America. It’s a trade association dedicated to the enrichment betterment of minorities and women in the mortgage industry. We’re gonna get the origin story. We’re gonna talk to the man who founded it, Tony Thompson, we’re gonna bring him on, but we’re also gonna talk about the visionary program that just launched. Now friends, this is a radical thing. I’m excited to personally be apart of it because the goal of the visionary program with NAMMBA is to connect to over 50,000 high potential counted undergraduates and recent graduates. Giving them internships and career paths into real estate and finance. It’s about time, we show the next generation this incredible industry. So, let’s bring on Tony Thompson. What’s up, Tony? Good to see, you buddy.[Tony] Hey, thanks a lot for having me today, man. I’m excited to be here. So, hey, much love, much love and appreciation to you for having me today.[Alec] Well, look man, you’re doing the real work and I wanna talk about it cause I’m super pumped. I’ve been saying forever, man I wish there was a way we got our industry exposed to college students. I mean, I fell into it cause my dad was in the business. It’s like people fall into the mortgage industry and they don’t realize this is one of the greatest industries in the country. And so, before we talk about that and visionary, which I’m so stoked on, Tony you started a really rad trade association dedicated to helping minorities and women in mortgage banking, can you unpack like, where did that come from? You were in mortgage banking, what made you pull into that space and open this whole thing up? Let’s talk about the foundation of NAMMBA.[Tony] Yeah, I mean, essentially what happened is over the years, I used to speak at a lot of great events throughout the industry and every time I got up to speak, the only thing that I would see were a lot of old white men and bald hair and gray hair.[Alec] I was gonna say..[Tony] I kept telling myself, “You know, wow there has to be more to our industry. We need more young people in the room. We need more women, we need more people of color.” And so it was one of these things that as I traveled across the country people kept saying, “Man, I wish there was a place that it didn’t matter who I worked for, whether I was a broker or a banker or a credit union.” I could just have a network that I could really grow and tap into to grow my career and to grow my business, and that was really the genesis of how NAMMBA came about.[Alec] So you launched this thing and it’s almost five years old now, is that right? Did I get that right?[Tony] We’re coming up on our 5th year, next year is our 5th anniversary. We are so pumped, so excited. We’re in kindergarten you know? We feel like a toddler, but we’re having fun and it’s been great in terms of the impact we’re making and what we’re getting ready to plan for the future.[Alec] So, real quick, and I wanna hear more about what work NAMMBA’s doing, Mikey turn comments on for me, in addition to the visionary program, but you know we’re live on LinkedIn, Facebook, YouTube, if you are with us guys, throw in a comment, share the love, we need to spread the message about what this organization is doing. There’s a lot of visionaries out there who are putting up tons of posts and sharing the content so if you’re watching this now or in the future, share, spread the love and let’s talk about what NAMMBA’s been doing. So, Tony, before visionary came into play, which I know you have a passion about for the students, just share organizationally what NAMMBA’s been doing.[Tony] Just kind of [Tony][Tony] Yes.[Alec] Yeah, dive in.[Tony] So, first of all, NAMMBA’s got a two part mission and I want to make sure even though it says the National Organization of Minority Mortgage Bankers of America, anyone who has ever been to a NAMMBA event, a NAMMBA conference, they will tell you NAMMBA is for everyone. Our mission is two[Tony]fold. First, we want to provide training, education, professional development to women and minorities who are in the industry, although it says women and minorities, we don’t really care who you are. In fact, most people don’t know, 25% of our members are white. And the reason for that is real simple. We focus on education, content and training. We want you to be the best originator possible. We want you to be the best operations professional. We want you to be the best you and everything that we do at NAMMBA is built around giving you the training, professional development, and the education very similar that executives receive at the events and conferences that they go to with the Mortgage Bankers Association. The second part of our mission is also to connect and introduce college and high school students to careers in our industry and to provide them with financial literacy education. You and I know, the future homeowners, three out of four homes last year sold, three out of four homes this year sold, have been to women, single women, minorities, or millennials, so we understand a future home buyer demographic, we wanna make sure that those segments understand and have the tools that they need to become homeowners in every community across the country. But then last, but not least, you have a story, I have a story, we all, except for you, you came up with a family and a pedigree of the mortgage, but most successful mortgage practitioners will tell you, they fell into the mortgage industry. With NAMMBA, our goal is to intentionally introduce and connect college students across the country to careers and organizations and companies like yours and our partners to help them understand the wealth of opportunity no matter what kind of job they’re looking for, we have that in our industry.[Alec] So hey, but everyone watching right now, if you fell into this industry or were dragged in by family, comment, ’cause I know you’re right, Tony. ‘Cause how do you find this industry? It’s exactly what you’re talking about. You don’t unless somehow, so if you’re watching right now and you fell into the industry too, please share like how, cause I love to play with that and I love to see what’s going on. Okay so, five years, you’re in kindergarten, you’re kicking around here. Let’s talk about the visionary program. So when did this become a thing in your mind? Walk me through kind of the process and what’s going on and what the intent you’re trying to drive with it is.[Tony] Well you know, it became kind of a game, one of the genesis about NAMMBA was I’m a person of action, I believe, hey, instead of talking about stuff let’s do it, right? So, you know, four years ago, everyone kept saying we need an organization, there needs to be a network there needs to be a place that again, whether you’re a broker, a banker, a credit union, it doesn’t matter, if you’re black, white, green, yellow, it doesn’t matter, where can I go to get training and that can help me grow? Bam! That’s NAMMBA. Also, every time I turn around, every executive or every CEO is sitting there saying, “We need more young people in our industry the average age of a loaner is 53 years old. Oh my gosh, you know, we’ve gotta do something.” Guys, let’s stop saying we gotta do something. Let’s be real leaders. And most importantly, the idea for the visionary came, it’s real simple, it’s like, Tony, you fell into the industry, but you have a chance to make this industry better when you leave it than when you found it. And so for every leader, or for every mortgage professional that’s been out there and you want to make this industry better then you want to intentionally find your next Alec, your next Tony, your next CEO. The visionary allows you to come and be a part of helping us to give back to the future by speaking with college students, speaking with professionals who are trying to grow and develop their career and may need the right career guys. So we created the visionary program as a way for anyone and everyone to give back to the future but also to pay it forward by leaving a legacy in the industry.[Alec] I love this so much, I feel like this is like a rallying cry everybody in the industry can get behind because it’s saying a neutral message, it’s going after the youth, it’s letting them know this is an incredible industry to be a part of and it’s opening the door for it. And I’ve seen so many people, myself included, who saw this and was like I want to be involved. So how does somebody be involved? How do you get involved in this, Tony? How do you become a visionary? How do you help this? How do you be in the game here?[Tony] Absolutely, it’s really simple, they can go to nammba.org. That’s N[Tony]A[Tony]M[Tony]M[Tony]B[Tony]A.org. And when you go to the site, you can look and see our programs and products. For programs, we have the visionary, you just click on that visionary, it tells you all the benefits and the information that you can get and learn about being a NAMMBA visionary. But most importantly, what it does, is it gives you an opportunity to connect with the future of our industry as well to give back and share your insights, share your guidance, as well as your wisdom, to other professionals who are currently in our industry, as well as the college students that we’re reaching out to on a daily basis to connect them and introduce careers in our industry.[Alec] Good and there’s an incredible portal that I’d love for you to share ’cause when I logged in and got registered you have a box you can click and say, “Hey I’m open to mentoring people.”[Tony] Yes.[Alec] So, I love this. And so explain how this would work, right? So like, the goal of this is I click that and now these students have access to these portals, they’re going in there and they’re finding people who they’re like, “Hey, I should connect with Alec and get some internship, get some, ask some questions.” And by the way too, I know you’re passionate about this, but COVID has crushed a lot of opportunity for some of these kids in college.[Tony] You know, so 2 things, you’re absolutely right the first, Alec, the beautiful part about the visionary program is when you sign up you also get a form and you can tell us to what extent that you wanna be involved and engaged in terms of giving back. “Hey, I wanna talk to college students when we do a college town hall, so we’re doing college town halls every month now to give students real life, what’s a recession? Hey, hear from a teacher of commerce, hear from a CEO, hear from HR executives on how to improve your chances to land a job. You can also raise your hand and say, “Hey I wanna volunteer to speak on NAMMBA Webinars, podcasts, or some of the live events in the future sign me up, I’ll be there.” You, as a visionary, choose how much you want to engage and be a part of it, so that’s the first thing. The second piece is most of us understand that we are very blessed right now. Our rates are an all time low, we’re working our butts off, we’re making money and there’s a segment of the marketplace that I call the unforgotten segment, which is our college youth. There are currently 18 million students in school right now in some form of full time or part time. This past May, just 3 months ago, 4 million of those students graduated. And unfortunately, over 50% of those students do not have a job right now. And yet, we can’t get enough operations professionals, we need more loan officers, we need more Jr. LOs and we need more LOAs. Think about this guys! We have a chance to impact somebody’s life and use this moment of uncertainty as a moment of life changing, a positive moment in their life where if they get a job, they find out about our industry and most importantly, they get to help their community, they get to help other families, and other individuals, young individuals just like them. And so our college program, you know we really are trying to do four things right now with our #StudentChallenge. Because we have so many students that are out of work, we’re obviously connecting them to companies that are looking for great talent in all aspects of their organization. The second thing is we’re gonna provide career guidance and education to these students around how to interview, how to have a resume, how to look for a job on LinkedIn and other areas. Third, we’re gonna handle financial literacy. And last, but not least, we’ve also built a component of mental wellness. I mean, think about this, in some households in communities across the country right now. A college student who has worked their butt off for four years, they had two or three jobs in college, they did everything right, they didn’t even go to the parties on the weekend because they were focused on trying to make a good grade so that they could graduate and get a great job and then there’s something called COVID[Tony]19 that just changed their entire life. And without anything that they did has created an opportunity for them not to achieve their dream or at least a dream deferred. There’s a lot of mental wellness, sadness, how I’m gonna pay my student loan debt. My mom, my dad, maybe both of my parents are laid off right now. So, what’s our future looking like? And so we wanna to provide them with mental wellness and let them know that we’re here for them and it is gonna be okay. That’s what we’re doing to college students right now. All of these services are free. I’m gonna say that again. Everything we’re doing at NAMMBA is free to college students no matter who they are, no matter what school they went to because we wanna help them and that’s how the visionaries can help us by joining and supporting that mission.[Alec] I love that, Tony, and I think that right now I mean, you’ve been outspoken on this and even my little podcast here, everybody that’s watching or is watching in the future or is listening on the podcast networks, our job is to go to these college students and let them know there’s resources here. Our job is to point them to resources and say, “We have an incredible industry over here you probably haven’t seen it. Come look at what’s available over here.” From the services that NAMMBA provides from the education to the opportunity. I mean, that’s really our responsibility and I think anybody who’s considering signing up to be a visionary should know that your job, if you want to go mentor and help, that’s great! But one of the biggest, best things you can do is just help college students get exposed to the resources that’s available to them through Tony and NAMMBA. That to me is that doesn’t take much effort, guys. That doesn’t take much effort. We’re surrounded by college students. There’s college towns everywhere. And it’s an incredible opportunity for loan professionals out there. Executives down to processors I mean everybody. Now it’s we were all college students. I mean, many of us, so it’s amazing.[Tony] Well if you think about it, Alec, we’re gonna rewind a decade ago, we were the villains.[Alec] I know.[Tony] A decade ago, we were the cause for the great recession as an industry. Now, fast forward 10 years later, we did not create this environment we’re in today, but we have an opportunity to lead our communities and lead our country through this by now giving back and helping to move the industry and community forward through helping someone else. And if we do that, imagine how people will look at what we do and maybe my goal is that they will be inspired enough to say, “I wanna be like Alec, I wanna be like that person. I wanna work in that industry, ’cause they make a difference.”[Alec] And by the way, I know it’s this is pandering a little bit but like guys, everything’s digital now. All these kids are digital now, use social media![Tony] Yes.[Alec] Share with them what’s going on like you don’t have to go to walk the college cause most of them probably aren’t meeting in person right now. But like this digital space, they’re all here, they’re all here.[Tony] Yeah.[Alec] And what an incredible opportunity to spread a resource and gift to a lot of these people let alone bring them into the industry. So, Tony, where does this go? Like what’s your objective? What’s your goal in this thing?[Tony] We have, in the month of September, we’re trying to get over 250 visionaries signed up to support this program, ’cause here’s the reason why: we are launching out nation[Tony]wide college initiative. We need leaders, we need visionaries. We need people that can be part of this college program, be part of our professional program and help us be able to begin to give back. And so we want an opportunity and our goal this month as we move forward is to get all 250 leaders and we’re making progress.[Alec] Yeah, where are we at? Where you at?[Tony] I think right now, we’re almost approaching 100.[Alec] There you go.[Tony] But we need 100 more this month and so it’s really simple, nammba.org, you can sign up, learn the information about becoming a visionary and most importantly, then help and get someone else to become a visionary and give back to our industry as well.[Alec] By the way, this is such a no[Tony]brainer for leaders in our local markets, if you’re a branch manager in a college town, this is the biggest no[Tony]brainer ever. Like, there’s the kids, go be a visionary, go help them see the resources and give them a chance to pull in the industry, help yourself! You know, for all of our executives, this is an incredible opportunity for everybody out there. I’m so passionate about this topic, Tony, I love that you’re doing this. And I think it’s gonna make an impact. So how many college students are we going after here? You want 250 visionaries by September, what the goal?[Tony] The goal for us right now, originally we stated that for the five year goal, we wanna connect 50,000 students. But again, you just heard me say, Alec, 4 million students graduated in May of this past year. So we literally can get and connect and help 50,000 students over the next year, if one, everyone helps us get the word out to students that they can use all these resources for free and that our industry has jobs and internships and we’re hiring. Secondly, if we get the 250 visionaries to step up and support, they can also be the mouthpiece that we as an industry can go to the communities across the country and let them know we’re here and we’re going to do something that you care about our young people.[Alec] This is a little bit of a story, Tony, but I think you’ll appreciate it, so I’ve been talking forever and pushing my sales team to go into schools to try to find opportunities to talk to young kids, specifically seniors that are graduating and going into college ’cause you know when you go into college, the first thing you walk into is a guy selling credit cards on the door of the college union, putting you in a big credit card debt. Right, as you’re 18, walking into school. And so how impactful could you be as a mortgage pro in your community to sit down with seniors or people in college and start to talk about credit. You start to talk about things like buying a house in the future and how important is that to you and start prepping now and start paying attention to this stuff now. And now, taking in what you’re doing. Coming in with more resources to that community ’cause here’s the deal, every single one of those college kids has parents. And every single one of those high school kids have parents and a lot of those parents are homeowners. So if you go and you’re helping, serving their children, gives you a direct marketing connection to the parents. Of course it does! Because any time you do an education class on credit for high school seniors or college kids, guess what they’re gonna do? Probably tell their parents about this guy who came down and talked to them about credit and all the sudden now you’re expanding your network and connecting and now if you look at what visionaries doing with NAMMBA, man, you’ve got more resources to support the kids and the communities. And it’s incredibly awesome.[Tony] Let me help you in on a little extra secret, Alec. All these kids that we’re talking to are actually homeowners over the next decade.[Alec] Yeah absolutely, absolutely. 100%, and you have a chance right now to go into their life, support them, also give back, right? And I love that you said this because our industry right now is extremely blessed. And there’s pain because capacity is a problem and there’s just more loans than the industry ever expected. So there’s pain that comes with that, but at the same time, they’re not unemployed, they have a steady, guaranteed job, they’re gonna probably make more money than they’ve ever made in their career. And so, now is the time to give back. And now is the time to bring the next generation of mortgage professionals into the game. I could not agree more with that.[Tony] That’s what we’re trying to do at NAMMBA. That’s what our visionary program is about and so, you know, I wanna first say thank you to all those who have signed up, stepped up. Two, I wanna ask you to challenge a friend, a colleague, a peer to also become a visionary. And 3rd, if you haven’t become a visionary, I wanna challenge you to do something today for someone else. Do something today for someone else.[Alec] I mean, I think if we could do something for somebody else every day, we’d be better people.[Tony] Well, we’re trying, we’re trying.[Alec] I know, I know, I love it. So, let me do this, if you guys are listening right now and you are a manager, a leader, a mentor of people, you gotta go to nammba.com right now, you gotta click on the visionary tab, you gotta explore what it means to be a visionary. And there’s different levels of ways you can play. You can be all in and you can be a mentor and you can be like engaged and wanting to speak at NAMMBA events or on Webinars or you can just be someone who’s gonna help connect college kids into the resources that are available to them and kind of be be a passive supporter that way and both are great. Jump in, the water’s warm, it’s an incredible program. So, Tony, I know you’re five years old, I wanna kind of pivot the conversation a little bit from NAMMBA being five years old. What’s NAMMBA gonna look like at 10 years old? What are you trying to do? Where are you going? I love sharing the, I love people of when they share the vision of where they wanna take this stuff. ‘Cause it’s amazing.[Tony] So, you know, at the end of the day we wanna be the premiere association for the entire industry. And our goal even though it says National Association of Minorities Mortgage Bankers of America, our vision and our goal is real simple. For people who are passionate about growing their business and their careers, we want NAMMBA to be that source that they connect with to give them the training, the education and professional development. The 2nd piece is 10 years from now, I hope we’re on this podcast and there’s many college students doing testimonials, “I lost my job in COVID[Tony]19 and I came across this organization called NAMMBA and they had jobs and they were talking about a town hall and 10 years later, look at where I am in this industry.” That’s what I’m focused on over the next decade.[Alec] That’s incredibly cool, man. I’m excited to have my small role with that process.[Tony] Thank you.[Alec] And I’m just so in line with what you’re doing. I hope that everyone out there that’s hearing this right now is getting inspired to go find a new opportunity, to give back to our industry, to support our college kids and it’s just, I’m just stoked, so let me do this as we kind of wrap down here, Tony. What would you say to the people that are listening right now as kind of a send off message? What would you encourage people to do? We’ve kind of hit a lot of key points and I know that’s kind of wrapped up, but in summary, right, someone who just tuned in for the last few minutes here, share with them the message you have for them.[Tony] Yeah, it’s real simple. If you believe that we need to help the next generation of leaders by intentionally introducing our wonderful, exciting industry to them, become a NAMMBA visionary. If you believe that we need to increase financial literacy, amongst college and high school students in every community across the country, as an ambassador of our industry, become a visionary. If you believe that you want to make a contribution to the future of this industry and you wanna be someone to pay it forward because you’ve been very blessed in this industry, just simply become a visionary, that’s all.[Alec] And that’s the best. I could not agree with that more, Tony. Thank you for your time today. Thank you for just building something brave, man. Thank you for going out and creating someone amazing for our industry and for the communities we serve. I think that you deserve a ton of praise for that and it’s gonna do a ton of good. And for all the visionaries that are out there that are on the journey with us, I’m so thankful for all those people as well because they’re stepping up to say I actually wanna be in the game. I wanna get involved, I wanna do something besides just talk and I wanna help this next generation in a real way and you’ve given a platform for so many people to do that. So, I’m very very appreciative of you, my man.[Tony] No, no, thank you, Alec. I appreciate you for being an ambassador, for being a visionary, but most importantly for helping us to get this word out. And I just wanna close on, you know I tell people all the time this is not my industry, this is our industry. And you know, we owe it to ourselves to help out industry become better and to help out industry to become more diverse and most importantly, just to give back. And so, I wanna thank every visionary that has stepped forward, I wanna thank those that are getting ready to step forward as a result of you helping us get the message out today.[Alec] Absolutely, Tony, I appreciate you, brother. Everyone, you’re gonna see a ton of this logo right here all over the internet. Keep looking out for it. When you see it, you understand that this is the game we’re playing. Tony, thank you for all you do, my man. And everybody else, we will see you guys on the next episode of the Modern Lending podcast, take care.[Tony] Hey thanks Alec, take care.

Kristin Hanson is an accomplished Sales Manager with loanDepot. Top 1% Originator and the BEST Hanson. Kristin’s unique approach to her business is built on relationships. We’re going to talk more about this on the Modern Lending Podcast.

In this snippet of the Modern Lending Podcast…

• Mentorship and coaching is key to having a successful mortgage career.
• Everyone has their struggles, but you have to keep going.
• You need to surround yourself with people that can fill in the gaps.
• You’re not going to know everything and that’s okay.

Episode Transcribe

[Alec] Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of The Modern Lending Podcast, Live with your host, Alec Hanson. I’m Alec Hanson. Today, I don’t know where this is going to go. It’s going to go somewhere. Get ready for a ride. I decided to bring on a top producer. When you bring on top producers, you never know what kind of fire they’re going to bring to the meeting or the podcast, whatever this is, except it’s not just any normal top producer. I grew up with this person. This person is my sister. Kristin Hanson is joining the Modern Lender podcast and you’re going to get some real, real life stories here with the best originator and the best Hanson in the industry. Let’s bring on Kristen Hanson. In the flesh.- Hey[Alec] In the flesh. We get to do that because we’re family don’t judge us, we’re on a pod. Leave me alone. But this is cool.- This is cool.[Alec] For me.- Yeah, no. I’m very excited.[Alec] Actually, I have, I have a confession to make.- Okay.[Alec] So I had, I wanted you on my podcast for awhile, we’ve been talking. And so that’s true. So you can’t deny that.- Right, but last time I was here you were too busy so…[Alec] No.- I couldn’t come on.[Alec] But, then since some other jerk that I work with, tried to schedule you before me. And I was like, no, I’m moving her up.- Mhm. I shouldn’t have told you.[Alec] Nobody interviews my sister before me. You hear that? It’s big brother. Anyway, hi Kristen.- Hi![Alec] So you look lovely. Good to see you.- I did dress up today.[Alec] Really?- Yeah, I haven’t been dressing up for a long time. with COVID, but…[Alec] Hey, if you’re joining us live across the platforms, we’re on Facebook, Instagram… Not Instagram, I know, I never… We’ll get on Instagram at some point. YouTube, LinkedIn, Twitter. Hit me up with a #Bypassed If you’re watching this in the future, then I get a notification and I love it. And if you’re watching live right now, just hit me up and let me know where you’re watching this from, because I get, that makes me happy. It’s in the comments. So Kristen, we’re going to talk lot about stuff, mentorship.- Yep.[Alec] You know, you’re a top producer in three different parts of the country, which is wild and that whole journey was cool. You’ve been on the stage of Tom Duncan. You’ve done so many cool things in our industry.- Yes.[Alec] What do you like most about me as your brother?- So that’s, the list is small. So really just the fact that, you know, we have similar genes.[Alec] No.- That’s about it.[Alec] Okay. So let’s go back. I got sucked into this industry. Everyone knows my story because I was dumb and I asked my dad for a job. Why did you come into this crazy world? Like, what’s your origin story? How did you get into mortgages? What the heck happened?- I tried really hard to stay out of the family business. And if you remember, I was in grad school getting my masters to become a therapist and then…[Alec] Which is similar to being a loan consultant?- A hundred percent, like the background is perfect for this job. It’s great. But what happened was, my husband decided that he wanted to start his job in sports broadcasting.[Alec] Yeah.- And in order to get into that, you end up having to have to go to a very small market. And you kind of bounce around. So I moved to Abilene, Texas, and then we were there for a year.[Alec] What about Bakersfield?- Right. So if I could just… Here we are.[Alec] I’ll be back.- Yeah, we don’t even need you here. I got this. So then, after a year there we moved to Bakersfield and I was like, what am I… Like I don’t have anything to do. I didn’t finish my master’s because it was state specific and I knew we were going to be moving around the country. So I thought that was not a good idea. And so I called my dad and I was like…[Alec] You did what I did.- What am I supposed to do? I need to have a job. And I don’t like interviewing, that’s scary. And so he was like, why don’t you just go get a… There’s a branch in Bakersfield. Why don’t you go get a job? And so I did. That was it. I was like, I just am too afraid to interview anywhere. So if somebody, if my dad could just get me a job, just that’s fine.[Alec] And then what’d you, what was your first job then? What was your role?- Set up. I was in set up. We set up our own loans in the branch.[Alec] Yeah.- And so I did that and… And that was good, it was a good starting point. I learned how to set up alone. I don’t, I do it terribly now ’cause I’m a loan officer. But, I did…[Alec] So you were good at it- I was good.[Alec] You became a loan officer, now you can’t…- Can’t do it, 10 a full 10 over. No.[Alec] Well that’s, you’re not a top producer if you can do a full ten-oh-three- Right.[Alec] But you obviously have way too much time on your hands.- Yeah.[Alec] If you’re getting employment phone numbers and addresses and any of that stuff.- You just go, you just submit that.[Alec] Yeah. It’s not good.- So. Okay. So what’d you produce that first year you were originating after you got off set up and got into the loan officer ship.[Alec] So after I got up into set up, I was a production assistant and I was like, you know, my pay was dependent on whether or not my loan officer worked and would get bonuses and she didn’t seem to always want to get bonuses.- Weird.[Alec] So weird.- So, I…[Alec] Did you say a loan officer wasn’t working hard?- I don’t know that she wasn’t working hard, I just, maybe it was a tough time. I don’t know. I, I… No comment.[Alec] Welcome to real talk.- So I decided I got licensed, you know, after like six months. But that was also a requirement from that loan officer that I be licensed. So I did that. And then I realized that, you know, if I just did one loan a month I would be okay.[Alec] Make more than you’re making…- As an assistant and I wouldn’t have to rely on anyone. And so I just hit the ground running. And I think my first year as a loan officer, I can’t remember the loan amount, but I know I made over six figures and that was like crazy because I was working at Zales in the Mall of Abilene, In Abilene.[Alec] That’s right, you worked at Zales in the mall in Abilene.- Abilene.[Alec] Who cares?- Yeah, you didn’t visit.[Alec] So, it’s not a place.- No. Yes it is. It’s a great place.[Alec] So, you broke through, you became a loan officer. Made six figures in your first year.- Yeah.[Alec] This is, I’m going to do this now.- Actually, to be honest, I did go to… I went to Sales Mastery and I was like, I’m in, I could do it. And then when you go to those, you get so pumped up and you think, I can be a loan officer. I can totally. And then you go and you’re… you’re totally delusional and hyped up from that that you just go out and start hitting up realtors and you have so much confidence and, and then, you know, you try to back that up with…[Alec] So I see, I see we have a quote from Dan Hanson, which is great. So my goodness, your parents must be super attractive. So that’s… I was looking for proud, proud on that one next time.- My mom is gorgeous, but yes.[Alec] Okay, so then you had to move to a new place in a new state, right?- Right. So that’s hard, loan originators build all their influence in one market and then to uproot that and go to with licensing and everything else like that’s, uproot.[Alec] Uproot? That’s hard. So how did you do that?- I don’t recommend it. It’s not, it wasn’t my idea. But I did marry that man and so part of a marriage is to live in the same state, so…[Alec] Well, I mean…- Right, I mean I think. So that was another reason for the move. And this time we went back to Texas, bigger city, San Antonio. And I got lucky because I worked for a company that does a lot of builder business and there was a JV account, or sort of JV account and, you know, similar to Bakersfield, there was a woman, Ashton Velate, who’s a manager of that account in the area I was in. And she just took me under her wing and like, didn’t let me fall. And taught me builder business and taught me manual underwrites for first time home buyers. Like all the stuff when I first, you know, started would have been like, I don’t know how to handle this. And taught me how to check my pipeline, do all the… I mean, she babysat me. She was very good at that. And I can call her anytime. And same thing in Bakersfield. I had somebody that just, Christie White. She would go, here’s the deal. You’ll get 50 basis points, just go to the deal. And I’ll be like, okay. And I take a deal and I go to my office and I’d look at it, and I’d be like okay and I’d go back to her office and I’d be like, what do I do? And so she was so nice that she took time to not only like help me pay my rent because she was giving me part of her production, but also teach me what to do, because you can get licensed to be a loan officer, but you have no idea like what anything is.[Alec] Well, and one of the topics I really want to go into is mentorship with you, because we are an apprenticeship business. Like, there is no school for mortgage banking. There is no book.- No, I tried. I tried to find, you know, read what I could. But there’s nothing, aside from like the FHA handbook, which is very boring.[Alec] And my book wasn’t published yet.- Oh.[Alec] Ahh! Okay. So let’s, before we go back to mentorship, then you moved again?- Right? So then, then I was in Texas for a year, and then I had a pause, I took some disability time off for treatment.[Alec] Yeah that’s a whole other podcast.- That’s a whole other, yeah. And then, for treatment for a… Well I, whatever. I went to treatment for everything. But the next one was Florida, South Florida.[Alec] Great, very similar market.- So similar.[Alec] Very similar. Lot’s of first time home buyers, manual underwrites. Also lots of New Yorkers buying their second home, and we’re talking jumbo loans, which I didn’t know was a thing.- And their personalities are different, their needs are different, their expectations are different From a first time home buyer to…[Alec] Well!- It was just such an aggressive transfer. I was not ready for that.[Alec] Oh my gosh, by the way if you got into this business because of your parents, please put in a comment like Stacy just dropped it. Like, yes, it’s, we blamed them for sure. And I’m sending them my therapy bills every month. It’s their fault. But okay, so then you came to another market and you killed it, but again, you had great mentorship too.- Yeah. So my, my branch manager is Stephen Sirop and he’s been a top producing loan officer…[Alec] He’s okay, I mean he’s fine.- He’s he’s not the smartest guy. If you talk to him, you can tell.[Alec] He’s gonna listen to this.- No, he is, he is amazing. He’s a hundred percent the most brilliant loan officer, branch manager, whatever. He took so much time to teach me all things jumbo, foreign national, all things, all things, all the things. Dealing with the different type of buyer, clientele that from, from the Texas to Florida. Just incredible. I mean, he would send emails out being like, I’ll be here on Saturday if anybody wants to make realtor calls or learn how to like, you know, set up a good ten-oh-three or label document. You know, like… And I would show up, I would show up on Saturday. And he’d be like, you already know, we already went over this. I’d be like, I know, but I might learn something else. You know?[Alec] So, we’re going to talk about mentorship because you’ve had some incredible mentors and they’ve changed how you did business. But one thing that they cannot teach and cannot give somebody, is drive hard work and motivation.- Mhm.[Alec] You just made a really fun comment how he would like, he would do free trainings, right?- Yeah. Just come to my training.[Alec] Right and how many people would come?- Me. Me.[Alec] Yeah I mean but so, no matter, there are great mentors in our industry. There’s incredible people, but also…- Devin that’s a great hashtag.[Alec] No, Devin come on. I can’t even… Oh, the best Hansen. Okay. I mean, that’s fair. I have a story before we talk about the mentorship and all that stuff for originators. A lot of people know that I love dorky comic book stuff, but they don’t know why. And there’s a reason.- No friends for it. [Alec] That’s the first time I’m going to share this on live… No friends? I have some friends. So first time I’ve ever shared this, and people don’t know this, the reason I became such a big comic book dork was because my dad, our dad collected comic books for so long, but that’s not actually the reason. There was a trunk of comic books in our house, but I ended up taking it, putting it in my room because I used to get grounded a lot. I had timeouts room, in my room all the time.- For hitting me.[Alec] Can I tell the story?- Yes.[Alec] Can I tell one story?- Yeah. Truthfully[Alec] So when I, see what people don’t know is that my sister is massively smarter than me, like massively. Like I, and I’m, that’s saying something. Cause if I’m really honest, like I’m, even Devin, you can’t even, I’m kind of okay. I’m like, I’m here. So when we get in sibling… we’re strong willed people. So when we would get into arguments, discussions, as adults call them, at some point she would outwit me or say something that I had no comeback to. And so I just resorted to physical violence and I’d just push her down or hit her or whatever I did. And then I’d be grounded with no TV, no Nintendo, no nothing, no screens, except a trunk of comic books. And so I read them all. I had lots of time to read them all.- Right.[Alec] And that’s why I…- Love them.[Alec] Am messed up.- That’s too bad.[Alec] So no, no, you’re actually the reason that I’m a comic book dork, because you’re the one that got me in trouble all the time.- Oh, okay. So my years of therapy would tell me that that was your doing. You were responsible for your own actions.[Alec] You know, quid pro quo.- Okay.[Alec] So let’s talk about mentorship because I had good mentorship too. That changed my entire career.- Right.[Alec] And so when, and in mortgage, I think that there, there there’s a lack of mentorship to some degree. You found some in Sales Mastery with Duncan in high trust coaching. And I want you to share for a minute, what those mentors taught you at specific points in your life? Like what were the key moments that something happened, where you were like, wow, that’s going to change how I operate. That moved me from here to here. So let’s go through, let’s go through each of them. Like, you already started telling some stories but…- Okay.[Alec] Let’s start with an easy one. You had an aha moment at Duncan’s event. And then you started getting coaching through Duncan’s…- Yes.[Alec] Program. What was that moment like? And what’s the mentorship been like for that coaching?- So the, I mean I’ve had several aha moments with Sales Mastery. But so I had… like how long is this podcast?[Alec] We got another easy 30 to 45 minutes.- Okay. So right before, or right after I became a licensed loan officer, I had gotten diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. So I was obviously very upset because that wasn’t in the plans that I created for my life. And I was dealing with the grief of, you know, that diagnosis. And I was in a new city, new job, new career, you know, so much stress and I…[Alec] Holy crap.- I was at Sales Mastery and I was listening to all these people talk about how great they were. And I was like, okay, but you don’t have M.S. You know, you don’t have what I have. So I’m sure I could be up there doing all the things and talking about how great everything is. If I, you know, didn’t have M.S. And then how Elrod was one of the last speakers and thank God for him because he changed my life. He talked about his story. And I could say with, you know, a hundred percent conviction that if I had been in his shoes and had what happened to him, happen to me at that young age I would not have been as strong as he was to pull himself out of that and turn his life around. I don’t have COVID I got tested negative.[Alec] I’m very glad to hear that. Because I’m sitting right here.- And so I just thought, okay, so I have M.S. It’s what it is. Not, I can’t go back and like erase it, but I can be successful with it and I can figure this out and I don’t have to… I don’t have to be different. I could be one of those people on stage. And so that, and all the tools that you get at those kinds of events, you know, really brought me back and I was pumped up and I started doing Miracle Morning and it changed my life because it forced me to have gratitude and positivity in the forefront of my mind. At a time where I was, I had nothing. I had no, you know, my health was crap. I wasn’t, I was new at a job, new in a city, you know, about to get married. And a lot of things were uncertain, but being, doing that Miracle Morning, you know, caused me to not be able to sort of fail, I guess, I feel like.[Alec] Yeah.- And I had Christie there, you know, for me to just go in every day, and be like thank God we’ve got like a little bit of humor because that’s all I could bring to the table was I could maybe make a joke or two, and then they’d be like, all right, let me look at your, let’s read your D.U. ’cause you don’t know how to read that. You know? And I was taken care of.[Alec] Yeah.- You know? And that was how I started my little journey. And so that was a huge aha moment for me at Sales Mastery. And then that’s…[Alec] Then you had Christie.- Then I had Christie.[Alec] Backing you up, teaching you their game.- Just so patient.[Alec] Yeah, so, yeah.- She just never was like, I don’t have time for you. And I don’t know why. I mean I remember thinking like, why are you even still helping me? Like you, I don’t, you own me anything, you know? I’ve given you nothing. Except for like a couple laughs, right? And I just remember thinking like, okay, if, if I ever get… if I ever know what I’m doing in this business, which I still feel like isn’t a thing, you know I will help people. I will teach people. I will take the time. Because I cannot believe that this woman took this time for me. I mean, I was nobody. She didn’t owe me anything. And she just, she just did that.[Alec] So by the way, my friends who are hanging out with us, if you have any questions you want to have Kristin and I discuss… We’re talking about mentorship, we’re talking about family dynamics, all being in the mortgage business and all the craziness fired in there. We got a lot of you guys watching from all over the place, so I love it. Thanks for spending a few minutes of your day with us. So what was your next big mentorship aha moment experience? Who is your next big mentor in the business?- Well, so when I moved to San Antonio, before I got the, the builder account with the company, you know, Ray Selganya was my manager. And same thing like, and she always likes to joke would joke about this, but I would just show up at work and I would sit in her office. And I would sit across from her and she’d be like, do you need anything? And I was like, not at the moment, but I’m probably going to have questions. So I’ll just work right here. And then just like fire it back at you Like when something comes up. And then I’ll, you know, I’m doing stuff and I’ll be like, what’s the tax rate? What do you do for… What’s the insurance rate here in Texas? What are these lawyers? What’s? How do you do? And she just would be like, she would just sit there and answer my questions and let me spend the day in her office. And she was a producing manager too. So she, you know, she had her own deals. But she just, she never made me feel like I couldn’t, I couldn’t come into her office and sit. Or like that I needed to go to my own office. It was her office.[Alec] And you would sit in her office?- I would sit in her office. Cause that’s what they did with Christie. Right? I would leave Christie’s office and realize I shouldn’t have ever left. And then we’d go back in. And so I just, that’s what I do. I just go and I hang out. And I sit across from my boss’s desks and I ask questions and I joke, and that’s what I do.[Alec] Yeah. So there’s a lesson here for people that are not paying attention. It’s called learning by osmosis. And it’s a thing. It’s a thing because I used to do the exact same thing, It’s so funny. I didn’t realize you did the same thing I did. I sat in Kevin Buddy’s office, at a little side desk and listened to him, talk to customers.- Right.[Alec] Cause he would do that all day. Listen to it. And you just, you pick up the basics, you pick up the skills.- Totally. And then when they’re off the phone, I’ll be like so what did that…[Alec] What did that mean?- Yeah. [Alec] What is that?- And then, and so and she just never, she was, she’s like a mama bear, so right? So she just, you know, just unconditional love there with her, which was awesome. Because I had, you know, moved away from my family. So I didn’t know any, again, don’t know anybody, nothing to do except work. And you know. And then when I… They were like, hey we have this builder account here and you don’t have any business and you don’t have any projected business. So, why don’t you take this? Because you’re not doing anything. And I was like, sure. But I was very hesitant. And I talked to Ashton before, you know, I was like, I don’t want to screw this up for the company. I don’t know if you know this, but my dad, and my brother, and my cousin all work for the company and I don’t want anything getting back to them being like, oh, we have this huge account, and Kristin screwed it up. And I was very fearful because this is a big account that we have in Texas. And it means a lot to a lot of people and a lot of people’s livelihood. And I felt immense pressure. And I was like, I’ve only been a loan officer for a year. Like, are you sure this is what you want? You know, I’ll work hard, but I just don’t… I don’t want to screw it up.[Alec] By the way the key part of any of that is that you’re willing to work hard.- Right? Right. I’ll put in the time, I’ll do extra hours. I’ll learn. I’ll do the… I’ll be teachable. But if I screw up, it’s going to be your fault.[Alec] The other thing, Kristin, that makes you a dynamic, competent top producer is that you take extreme ownership of your results and your experiences. Like when you got that account, you went in there to work as hard as you humanly could and own everything. If someone wasn’t having a good experience, it was your fault. You kind of fixed it, you owned it. You took it on emotionally. Now, I mean there’s some things you shouldn’t be taking on emotionally. But like, there are… This is something that you live it, you live for our customers. You’re in the fight. Which is also why it can be hard with the customers that aren’t super kind. And you’re like, why? I’m doing my best for you, please.- I have to have a bank statement. It’s the law. It’s not my…[Alec] I have to have a bank statement.- I don’t care about your Nordstrom charge.[Alec] Well, I mean, we’re looking.- Right, obviously.[Alec] I’m gonna be judging. Alright. So then you moved again, mentorship. Last mentor, next mentor.- Then I moved to Florida, South Florida. And it was funny because I had met Stephen Sirop randomly, through dad. He had put us in contact before Florida was ever even, I mean, it was never on the radar. And I just read a comment by dad so I lost my…[Alec] No, isn’t it great? They’re right there. So like, Hey, we learned more just by doing them. – Yes we do.[Alec] Thanks, dad!- So anyways, so I had taught, I had Stephen and I had had a relationship, a personal relationship, not anything to do with work prior to me moving there. And then we met at Chairman’s Elite one year.[Alec] Yeah by the way, how many years have you gone to Chairman’s Elite?- Well, one… Two…[Alec] Qualified.- Three, four.[Alec] And how many years have you been originating?- Five. Cause I had a year off for disability.[Alec] Yeah, so four of the five years and one year when you’re dealing with some health stuff.- Right.[Alec] You went to Chairman’s Elite.- Right.[Alec] Okay, so…- I didn’t make it my first year. Like my brother, who was rookie of the year and like biggest producer in the world. And my excuse for that, just so everyone knows, is that was when there were like stated income loans. So that was like easy-peasy for him to just, you know, but I’m sure he did a bunch of those. That’s why I didn’t make it my first year.[Alec] Okay.- Alright.[Alec] I didn’t, I didn’t bring that up.- I know. That’s constantly playing in my head.[Alec] Oh, good!- Hey look what Alec did. Hey look what Alec did.[Alec] Let’s go back to Stephen Sirop.- Stephen Sirop. So, we met at Chairman’s Elite and we sat at the same table together and I met his wife, Robin, who is amazing. And we got to actually meet each other face to face, And he was like, you should come work for me in Florida. And I was like, ha ha never gonna happen.[Alec] Hey!- And then my husband got a job offer in Florida and I was like, let me look up the branch. And I pulled it up and I saw that Stephen was the manager and I was like, oh you’re going to get the job. Because God did this thing with this thing, and now you’re going to get the job because what are the odds that I would end up at Stephen’s branch?[Alec] Yep.- And he got the job and we packed it up, and moved to Florida. And I did the same thing. I went and sat at Stephen’s desk with my little laptop up. And I was like, what’s a jumbo loan? Why can’t I go over 43 D.T.I on all these options? What’s happening?[Alec] Why can’t I manually underwrite these deals?- Why is it saying ineligible all the time?[Alec] All the time. That’s nothing.- And Stephen just, you know, same thing just so much compassion, so much… just patience. Lots of patience, man. And I just sat there and tried to absorb everything I could and learn. And I know the first time I had to come in crying because somebody, a doctor, was buying her second home and it was for $500,000, which was the biggest loan I’d ever done at this point. And she was pissed because I wanted to see where the money was coming from. I ran into Stephen and was like, I don’t, I’m so sorry. Like, I hope she doesn’t leave a bad review or this realtor partner like bash us, I don’t know what to do. But like I just asked her for the bank statement to see where the source of funds are coming from and she doesn’t wanna give it to me. And I don’t know how to handle this. Yeah. And he was like, you’re giving her the money. And I was like I know, but she’s the doctor she’s probably a lot smarter than me, I don’t know. Like, she doesn’t to give me the banking. So like how do we not get the banking, but like do the loan. And he’s like, no, no, no, no. And then he calls her and says whatever magic he says and then the bank statements there.[Alec] So good.- You know? Yeah. And so, and then, like you said, when you were sitting with Kevin, I’ll listen to him talking to clients and people.[Alec] Yep.- And I’ll see points where I would have like wanted to hang up or maybe say a bad word. And he’s, you know, relaxed and smiling, and listening to his clients, you know? Just listening. And, and so I will never be able to, you know, pay back all these people who have taken their time with me. And Stephen still takes this time. I was on the phone with him for half hour this morning, complaining about my life.[Alec] I’ll take life. So, what do you recommend for somebody who is hearing this and realizing, holy crap, what a power of mentorship that you’ve experienced through your career. You know, how do I get some of that? How do I find these mentors? How do I get connected? What should I look for in a mentor? What would you give advice on?- I always say that I just got really lucky. I mean, I don’t know what to say because it is one of those things where you don’t, you don’t get training, you know? It’s like, okay, your licensed? We’re going to throw you in a fire, see what happens, you know? So I did, I got very lucky. But I also believe that the company that I choose to work for provides me with the resources that I need to learn. And the people that I can contact to ask questions, you know, if there’s ever a question Stephen doesn’t know, which it hasn’t happened yet. But if so, there are people that I know that I can reach out to. And that’s crucial. I need to know that I can get something done when I don’t have the answers. I can find them.[Alec] Yeah. – So I don’t know, luck? And then just, you know, make sure that your company has the resources to help you.[Alec] What are the qualities that make somebody, or what you would contribute to your own success, in being a top producer?- Competition.[Alec] Okay, meaning you like it?- I mean, I have been in competition with Alec since I was born. He’s not playing by the way. He’s never played, he’s not competing against me, but I have been competing against him forever.[Alec] Winning.- No, I’m so… I have yet to write a book, he’s on number two,[Alec] No, I’m not writing number two.- You’ve written two books.[Alec] We don’t talk about the first one.- Okay, well I’m just saying. It’s out there you guys. So there’s that, I have a very competitive spirit and I do want, I do, you know, my personality thrives on recognition and, you know, applause. Right? So I love when my dad will send me something being like, hey look, you’re number… you know, 75 out of 76. Like, great job. You know. Like that, that motivates me. I also have the personality of wanting to please the people that I work for. So, you know, Stephen is somebody that works harder and longer than me. And it’s important to me that I make him proud and I do the best that I can for him as my boss. That’s part of who I am. I don’t want to disappoint anybody, which is, you know, probably…[Alec] Another issue.- But yeah, I want to be, I want to be good. I want to do a good job. And I want people to say, you know, like what they say about dad. And you! And people are, people have said things about you now. Because you just keep getting bigger and better. But you know, like with dad, it’s like, you could ask people who worked with him 40 years ago, and they’re gonna say he was a good man. He was an honest man. He was a good leader. He had compassion, you know, like, I’ve never heard anybody say a bad thing about dad, except for my mom. But, you know, I mean, I respect that so much and I don’t want to, and you fall in those footsteps and I don’t want to be the one to, you know, I only want that last name to, to bring the same thing to everybody that, you know, comes across a Hanson.[Alec] Oh, you definitely carry the mantle well Kristin, you do a great job. If someone’s new to the business, what advice do you give them?- Go away. Just kidding. No, it’s a great time to start the business. A lot of times people ask me if they should join, you know, where they should start. And I would say, start as an assistant, you know? And learn. Because it’s really painful if you don’t have mentors and people that are willing to teach you, because there’s just so much out there. In addition, I do want to talk about my coach, Hope, too. That’s another mentor.[Alec] Yeah lets do it.- So I did invest in Sales Mastery, and hiring a mortgage coach because there’s something about having confidence as an originator, that when you go and you pitch why people should use you, or you have these conversations. When you’re confident, not cocky, but just confident that like, you’re going to take care of them and you can handle whatever comes up. I think that makes a big difference in, you know, in your conversion rate, when you talk to people. And so when I first moved to Florida, I was calling Hope being like, I don’t know how to talk to these people. Because they’re very aggressive, they’re very short, They don’t like me it it seems like, and I’m super uncomfortable. And then she would just be like, no you know, sometimes people kind of like you to give back what they’re taking. And other times she would call me, or I would call her and be like, what do I say? This guy is going to get his lawyer involved. Apparently, I didn’t know this, but in Florida, everybody has lawyer. So now I know it. But at first I was like, oh my God, a lawyer? Like, I don’t want to talk to a lawyer. And now, you know, all day. Just kidding I don’t. I still don’t want to talk to lawyers. But I would ask Hope, like, what do I do? And she’s like, sometimes people just want you to listen. Like, it can be a frustrating process. And I’m like, yeah, I know I’m frustrated. And she’s like no, no, they’re frustrated.[Alec] Them.- You know? And I was like, you know, like have some compassion, listen, let him say what he has to say. And, and so I just, again my biggest thing I think for me was just having the resources and the people, like I padded my sort of squad.[Alec] Yes.- With just as many people as I could, for as many instances. I still will reach out to my old processor and be like, hey, who do we use for translation stuff? Like Ashton, I reached out to her when I’ve had a manual underwrite. Christie White, I would all the time be like, hey, is this like a rule? Or is there… I still have so many resources that in my little database that I can connect to. So that when I take a customer and they tell me like, this is my situation. If I don’t know it, which surprisingly, everybody still has a very original scenario every time I get them I’m like, how have I not seen this yet? But I know that I can, you know, I’ve got five people in a second that I can just call or email and be like, what do I do? And then I can get back to that client confidently and say, listen, Stephen Sirop said this was okay. So, hundred percent. We’re good.[Alec] So how has coaching impacted your career?- I would think a lot.[Alec] Well, some people I know are very, like there’s always a lot of stigma against coaching. That’s the wrong word. But there’s an insecurity about having a coach. Cause when you have a coach now, now someone’s gonna like call you out in your crap and they hold you accountable. And I know a lot of sales people don’t like that, even though they might say they do, they really don’t.- Oh, see, I really do. But I also have that thing where I don’t like to disappoint people. So, you know, I like to be the straight-A student and get everything right. And I get the pat on the back or Hope will be like, you did all your, and I’m like yeah! You know? So, that really works for me and my personality. I am good with direction and instruction and I will follow it and I will get an A+. and then we will celebrate my doing so.[Alec] With a victory.- With a yay! Yeah.[Alec] All right, so… And Mikey, I think lost audio going in my ear but can you still hear me?- Yeah.[Alec] So would you go back and change anything about your origination career?- No. No. I honestly think everything happened for a reason. And like one of the things about me, is I also like to now move up in knowledge as fast as possible, right? I want to take the least amount of time to get the most amount done. And that builder account that I got in Texas was like a speed learning…[Alec] For sure.- …for the business. So I was thrown in there, but I had no friends, no family, nothing. All I had to do was work. So I got to learn so much in that year that probably would have taken me several years to have the confidence and the understanding of. And I got like a speed course, crash course in that. And that was awesome.[Alec] I have a, I have a question about adversity.- Okay.[Alec] So you mentioned some things in your life that have been major adversity. And then you mentioned this moment at Sales Mastery. When was it? What year was that? When the guy on the stage was like…- Oh, that had to have been end of ’13 or ’14 because I had just been diagnosed with M.S.[Alec] It was like the beginning of your origination career, right?- Yeah.[Alec] So there’s a lot of people out there and great loan professionals out there right now who are having adversity.- Oh, look at Michael. That’s a very nice thing to say.[Alec] Yes. Michael’s the man.- Did you see what he said?[Alec] I didn’t want to show it cause there’s lots of those.- Okay, sorry. Go ahead. So for a loan officer who’s experiencing adversity as they understand it or as they are experiencing it, what advice would you give to them? As someone who’s had her fair share.[Alec] It’s like everything’s skipped Alec and just got dumped on me.- It’s like the movie, Twins.[Alec] Well…I’m Arnold Schwarzenegger.- So I would say I’m sorry, because life’s not fair. And some people get dished a lot more than others and it’s, I don’t know why. But that’s OK. You can get through it. And since I’ve been open about my M.S., there are plenty of other people with other issues that are worse than that. And I see them get up and go to work and kill it. And they don’t even tell people about it because they don’t want people to think any differently of them. I do. I want you to feel sorry for me. And be nice to me because, you know, I’ve had struggles. Be as nice to me as you can. But I’m also, you know, I’ve learned along the way to share about M.S. so that if somebody has M.S., I can tell them my journey, you know? Just be…[Alec] Make connection.- Yeah, but everybody’s got their stuff, you know? Everybody’s got something. I just happen to have more than Alec, always. But maybe I’m Alec’s thing. You know? That’s too bad.[Alec] Yay.- But just find people that can support you. Find an atmosphere that can support you. Take care of yourself. And I would read Miracle Morning. I still think that is amazing. I don’t do it, because it helped me. So why would I keep doing it?[Alec] Hmm.- I don’t.[Alec] Sips coffee. Alright. So, final topic and then we can wrap down. If you guys have questions, fire them in there. Even if you want to ask about growing up with Kristen, I’m happy to answer all those truthfully. But you’ve, in my opinion, I’ve seen you kind of have what I would call a breakthrough or a mini breakthrough in your business, where you decided to take more control over it. Of what you allow into your life through it. And that’s a very, very mature thing. A lot of originators don’t have that skill or never develop it. Where they just basically go to the all you can eat buffet, and they just shove food in their mouth until they get sick and puke. Without carving up like really good boundaries. So for example, you know, firing that one realtor that you know you should fire. That you shouldn’t work with anymore because they consume all your time, and all your energy, and all your life. And they hate you at the end anyway. Or the customer, that is just a disaster and your like but . Like yep, get on board. Let’s do this loan. And that you know that you’re getting into like a deathbed. And they’re probably gonna quit anyway and go to somewhere else. And you’re gonna spend 60 days with them yelling at you and then they’re gonna fund somewhere else. So you’ve made some conscious decisions to start to like, nope, this is how I’m gonna run my life. Share with everybody that process, what you set up for yourself, how you’re trying to define it. And just even where you’re at with it. ‘Cause I know it’s still kind of a work in progress and it’s a journey. But share that cause there’s there’s L.O.’s right now, and this is why frame this up, There’s L.O.’s right now who are literally taking in any application that get their hands on and in doing so, they’re creating a huge problem for themselves. Because they’re overloading themselves and they’re taking on customers that are not ideal customer match. And then they’re probably not to be able to give that person great service or experience the way that customer was demanding and they’re setting themselves up for failure.- Yeah. So, a couple of things on that. First, having a coach really helps because she would be like, Hey, what are your days off this week? And I be like none.[Alec] What is that?- Yeah, like I don’t have any. And she’d be like, I’m like well I’ll figure it out as we go, and she’d be like nope. You need to pick two days and those are going to be the two days, you know? Because otherwise I’ll be like, I’ll have my days off be Wednesday, Friday. And then like Wednesday I’m going like, well I’ll just be looking at emails. So having a coach definitely helped with that. And to be honest, like I was that loan officer and a little bit to this day, I’ll still do it. But now that business is up and running and I have sort of a solid pipeline and business coming in, I don’t have to, you know, in order to pay my mortgage, I don’t have to take every deal, but there’s nothing wrong with that. If that’s what you’re doing.[Alec] Yeah.- Eventually you won’t have to do that. And you know, is my thinking there. And what happened was, well, COVID also had a lot to do with it because…[Alec] Really?- …because, you know, when I can’t see my family because, you know, I can’t just take a plane or we can’t meet and we can’t do stuff. You know, I was like, you know what? This is the only thing that matters to me right now is family. So like, I’m going to take time off to see family, do family, whatever. You know, my mental health, obviously, when you’re quarantining with your partner for months on end and you aren’t doing anything. It’s like, you have to take a look at your mental health.[Alec] Erica and I are going great, we love it.- Yeah, she told me.[Alec] Homeschooling, we’re killing it.- So good. But I had to, you know, working from home was, I was back to working every day. Because like, I was so bored. I was like, I might as well just do something. And then I was, you know, my mental health was suffering.[Alec] Yeah. I mean, I’m sure – My husband could tell you better how that looked. But I just, you know, I had to go back to setting the boundaries of like, no, I’m sorry. I take two days off a week at work. If you call me after six o’clock, I’m not going to answer and I’ll return your call the next day. And you know, if that doesn’t work for you and you’re going to go elsewhere, then I understand. And, and good luck. You know? No hard feelings. But I’m, you know. If you’re going to expect me to call you at nine o’clock every night, I just want to let you know from day one, that’s never gonna happen. So, that’s… My thought on that.[Alec] I like it. It’s a journey, it’s a career journey as you, as you move through it. It’s funny. I had the same thing when I was hiring loan officers. At some point I was like, why am I hiring? I’ll be like, this loan officer? I should not hire this person. This person is going to be toxic to my culture.- Right.[Alec] But they do a ton of production, so I was like, get in the boat! And then I realized later, like I wasn’t an immature manager and leader because I just brought him in- Right.[Alec] And they caused havoc and then left anyway.- Right, right. And then blow everything up.[Alec] So Leslie has a really cool question. Kristen, how long would you suggest an individual stays as an assistant in a role before moving on to an L.O.?- I would say at least a year, but it depends. The loan officer that I worked for when I started only would let me have like, would teach me the like one third of the loan process. So I didn’t really know what to, to the second and third part of it were, I had to, you know, just take that leap and hope that somebody would save me. And fortunately Christie White did. But if you have a good loan officer as your teacher, they should want you to grow. They should support that. I have a loan processing, or a loan assistant now. And I told her when I hired her, like, if you decide that you can do this, you want to do sales on your own, and you want to go get business like your licensed. I’m not going to tell you, like you can’t do what’s best for you and your family. You know, I’ll teach you everything I know, which is, you know, but Stephen’s there if you need other help. And then, you know, you can just do what you gotta do. It’s your life, it’s your livelihood, you know? But I would definitely say, make sure… I didn’t know I was going to have the resources I had when took that leap. It was just so toxic between me and that loan officer that I was like, I’m either going to quit or I’m going to do this on my own because it’s not worth it. And, and so that’s kind of why I jumped out. But if you feel like you’ve got some good support and somebody that can help walk you through stuff, when you start getting your deals, then, great. Then get out there, go give it a shot.[Alec] I’d like to compliment what Kristin said here, ’cause I think she’s dead on. Also, I never… just realize that everything in the world is made up. So like the processes, the system flows, how they do their business. Like that’s just an amalgamation of like things they were taught and like they’re doing it ’cause they were told to do it that way. As an assistant though, you get to really have the opportunity to sit back and go, is there a better way to do this? How would I do this differently if I was there? And then what can I contribute to my loan officer or my senior to like help push the process, change the process, maybe track things different. What if we did this differently? Why do we do it this way? I’m coming with that open-mindedness. Because when you’re new to the industry, and that’s a great perspective, you’re like, why are we doing it this way? And he’s like, well, we’ve always done it this way.- Right.[Alec] Well then stop doing it that way. Let’s do it a better way. So that’s a really cool question, Leslie Thank you, and Kristin good advice.- One other thing, you can also, I would think go to your loan officer and be like, Hey, if I bring a deal in on my own, if I start bringing business in, you know, can I take, maybe get a bigger cut of the pie? And as long as I’m doing all the work, or some of the work and that way you can maybe still teach me and you know, still get paid…[Alec] Yeah good call.- …and you can try to figure that out.[Alec] Yup. All right. So Lan put a really cool comment up there. This is great, since I’m a new L.O. and I love it. And I always end, even though we talked about this to a small degree, I always like to end the podcast on a conversation around, you have a brand new L.O. to the industry in front of you. After you tell them to run away, and they don’t and they stay. What, what advice do you give them if they’re like, Kristin, you’ve been a Chairman’s Elite top producer, What are you gonna fund this year? Huh?- Uh… [Alec] What have you funded year to date?- Uh… [Alec] If you can just ballpark it. Some number. What are you gonna fund? What’d you fund last month?- I don’t, huh! I don’t know.[Alec] Stop it.- I don’t, I’m really not, I don’t like to look at that. Because the problem when you start looking at that is you’ll be like, oh look at all these applications I put in. And then like they don’t close. Or like, whatever. And so you’re like, meh. We want to, so I now…[Alec] Have you qualified for Chairman’s Elite already?- Yes, yes, yes.[Alec] Okay, so if you already qualified that says enough.- Yeah.[Alec] So, you’re a badass. Like you are. Own it. That’s the deal. You’ve proven it year after year. Every single year, you’ve been one of the best of the best. Top one percent of the industry. So you’ve got a brand newbie sitting right here, right? It’s like, hello. And let’s say, it’s a younger you. Let’s say it’s just this person who’s like, I don’t know what I’m doing. Like what advice do you give them if they’re like, I want to make this a career. I want to produce like you produce. You know, I want to follow in your footsteps. What advice do you give them?- You’re going to have to invest in yourself. So for me, when I first started, I was like, okay, I want to do this. And it’s going to cost $200 to put this event together or whatever. And I didn’t have any pull in the company, so I just paid for it myself. I wanted coaching. So I got coaching. I wanted to go to Sales Mastery, so I went to Sales Mastery. I never asked for my company to give me money until I felt like I was contributing enough to the company to say, is this something you guys could look at? You know? But I, for the most part, like even now, if there’s going to be an event, you know, at the builder that I work with. I usually will just get the stuff together myself and go, you know? And so I don’t know where they say, like, you have to spend money to make money. I mean, not, don’t be ridiculous. But like take it on yourself. You’re your own investment.[Alec] I love investing in yourself, I agree. I think it’s the best thing they can do is get the focus off of what the, you know, if this matters to you, like coaching matters to you, just go execute and get coaching.- Right.[Alec] Don’t wait around and have an excuse why you can’t have it because the company won’t pay for it.- Right, right. You can have it. And then coaching will. I mean, hopefully, if you have a good coach and you do well, it’s going to pay for itself anyway. So what is, what? What is it? It doesn’t matter.[Alec] Okay. So invest in yourself. Anything else you’d say that this person?- Find a good mentor.[Alec] Yes. Awesome.- Because that’s the only reason I’m even still standing.[Alec] And I’ll compliment that because from my own experience, just ask. Ask people that you respect in the industry to help you. Ask them to give you advice, ask them for Zoom coffee or whatever you’re doing these days. Like ask them to, to… Like, when I started originating the way I got to chairman’s the lead in my first year was simply because I called all of the top originators at the company I was at and said, all over the place like San Diego. I was in Orange County. So San Diego, I went up to Santa Barbara and I was like, how do you dominate? Like, how do you get this kind of velocity on your business? What do you do? And they, can I buy you coffee? And all of them said, yes or Dan will fire me. So I blackmailed them into it. But they’ll say yes! Like my point is, they didn’t say that. But maybe they thought it. But they said yes. And they brought me in. Hi, Jill also stoked you’re hanging out with us. Love you guys. They all said yes. And even throughout all my career, like met executives and mentors and owners, and I was like, can you help me here? And they said, yes. So I love that Kristen, like, just ask. Find the mentor.- 100 percent.[Alec] You’re not alone. And the other thing Kristen said that I hope you all heard was that over her course of her career, she’s built this Rolodex of resources of people who have helped her, want to help her, willing to help her. And it spans geography. It spans, you know? Companies?- Is he not watching?[Alec] No, he’s not. That’s my boss calling me. That’s awkward. All right. So final questions, since we’re at the very, very end and I never asked these, cause I never had my sister on. What do you remember most about dad in his career, growing up as a kid?- Well, I remember his… his mustache.[Alec] So good.- So good.[Alec] So good. If we ran a professional studio, Mikey, I could have like my dad’s mustache on the screen right now. So, that’s future goals.- Really just the.. Everybody, kind of what I already said, like everybody’s response of my dad is like, that’s a good man. That’s an honest man. That’s a man of integrity. Terribly, politically incorrect humor. But, and I apologize, you know. For the past and the future, it’s not ever going to stop. But I really, there was just never a bad thing said, and it was, I could tell that he made a difference in people’s lives, in their careers, in their family’s, you know, financial livelihood. And he was, they call him the legend, you know, and he is. And at the same time, you know, was a good dad, the same time that he was being a good boss for all of the country, you know? He was also an amazing dad. And to be able to, that is one of the best parts of, you know, finally coming to work in this business that I tried to stay away from is getting to see that my dad at home is the same guy at work. And he, he’s just a really good man. Y’all should just send him some love.[Alec] Send him some love.- ‘Cause he’s getting pretty bored at home.[Alec] He’s losing it.- Totally.[Alec] Alright. Friends, professionals, thanks for hanging out today on live Modern Lending podcast. Kristin, I’m so excited I got to be the first one.- Oh, god. Sorry Chris.[Alec] Eat it, that’s right. And I love you. I’m proud of you.- I love you too.[Alec] Mikey, take us out.

We’ve made a pivot as we’ve been focusing on external skills sets in our industry, let’s take a longer journey into some introspection. Join Danny and Me as we explore the power of journaling.

In this snippet of the Modern Lending Podcast…

• Learn the importance of Journaling
• What A.L.O.H.A. really means
• How we can really be an imposter of ourselves
• Why it is necessary to allow yourself to feel both successes and struggles

Episode Transcribe

[Alec] Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Modern Lending podcast live with Alec Hanson. Real excited to bring on Danny Kim today. Now, let me give you a brief background of this guy and how we kind of connected up. So, of course this show, Modern Lending, we do a lot of stuff about mortgage, and this guy spent 25 years at Bank of Hawaii playing the mortgage game, serving the community, doing this really cool stuff, but he pivoted, he pivoted into an whole new area, founding the DK Leadership Program two years ago. And now the Aloha living project, founder of the Aloha Journal. And thank you, Danny, for sending me this. I cannot wait to talk about your career, your life changes, what brought you to this whole concept of journaling and what it’s doing in the world today and how it could probably help a lot of us. So without further ado, let’s kick it and bring on Danny Kim.[Danny] All right.[Alec] Danny good to see you.[Danny] Hey, great to see you, Alec Aloha, how are you?[Alec] Aloha, man, I wish we could be doing this in Hawaii that would’ve made my life like so much better.[Danny] I got the picture here in the back, just so you know, just be here virtually.[Alec] We were just talking before, you know we have a great operation in Hawaii and normally I’m out there once a quarter or more. We have a family vacation and Kobe’s ruined all of it. So[Danny][Danny] Great, great.[Alec] I know we get to hang out here, Danny, but it’s okay, it’s great to talk to you.[Danny] Good to talk to you too. Thanks for having me on.[Alec] So let’s do this, my man, let’s share a little bit of your past, like, let’s get some perspective of who you are, what you’ve done in your career, What led you to this state? And I want you to share with everybody a little bit about what you’ve gone through in your life.[Danny] Yeah, thanks, like as you mentioned, most of my career had been in banking. Like I worked for the Bank of Hawaii for 25 years, had a great career there. But during that time, there was always this itch of wanting to do something different. And I spent a large majority of my life always seeking things like self[Danny]help and the Tony Robbins, John Maxwell, all of these different self[Danny]help organizations. And then I was wondering like, okay, like why do I keep seeking things outside of myself? And it wasn’t until I went to this place called the Hoffman Institute where I realized that a lot of the patterns that were coming up in my life was due to actually things that I learned from my parents in childhood.[Alec] Yeah.[Danny] And that was very interesting to me, but when I came out of that I felt like, okay, if I’ve learned it, I could actually unlearn it as well.[Alec] That’s a great comment.[Danny] Yeah, so one of the things that I wanted to do was after I got out of there, I said, Hey, you know, if I have learned these things as a child, growing up as a young adult, would it have changed some of the decisions and the trajectory of my life? So what I wanted to do was to actually see what was being taught in the schools and what I realized was shocking. Like every single school has some type of social and emotional learning program. And I was like, wow, I never had these things growing up when I would take my daughters to college tours.[Alec] Yeah.[Danny] Said them number one probably utilized services to seeing the psychologist on campus. And so I had this huge vision as I’m gonna do these training courses and I’m going to teach everybody, all these things that I learned from positive psychology and how to better yourself. But I had to like narrow that vision down. And so one of the things that I wanted to do is say, okay, what if we focused in a small segment, maybe it’s folks that are going to college in the main then from Hawaii, but coming back home for reasons other than financial.[Alec] Yeah.[Danny] So we’re going for a semester two and then coming back home says, okay, if I could teach them about emotional health and resiliency and connection, would that make a difference? So as I started to interview the students on why they came back home, many of them would say, “I wasn’t experiencing Aloha.” When I went up to schools on the main message, oh, what do you mean by that? So in Hawaii, as you know, cause you’ve been here a lot. We have certain customs, like for example, one of them is when you enter a house or a room, we take off our shoes, but you’re in college and you’re a freshman, you gonna dorm room, like nobody’s taking off their shoes, right. So it’s this feeling like, wow, I’m in a new place, different climate, different culture, different customs, and how do I actually fit in here? So as I started doing more research, it was deeper than that. So this whole generation Z, those 18 to 22 years of age, they’re going through this epidemic of loneliness, depression, and lack of connectivity. So it’s huge. So like, it’d be interesting because I mean, I have young kids, they’re always on their phones.[Alec] Yeah.[Danny] They have thousands of Snapchat and TikTok friends, how could they be lonely? How could someone be lonely on a college campus where there’s thousands of people? And what I realized through the research is loneliness is not necessarily being around a lot of people. It’s actually how you feel inside and how authentically and genuinely you can connect.[Alec] But you know, Danny, and I know we’re talking about college kids, but I think there’s such a strong parallel to what many of us are experiencing.[Danny] Absolutely[Alec] Depending on how we’re reacting to COVID, there’s tons of loneliness and self isolation. Sometimes even with your family, you might even have your family around, but you can still feel isolated[Danny][Danny] Yeah.[Alec] having trouble connecting. And we’re forced to be on these video calls and zooms and yeah. I mean, I think this is a really prevalent conversation.[Danny] Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you could have actually someone physically next to you and still feel lonely. So it’s that difference between what you think in your mind is a genuine connection and what you’re actually experiencing.[Alec] Yup.[Danny] So, with all of this, I said, well, you know what, one of the things that I’ve learned from going to all of these different classes and seminars is we as human beings, we have this natural state that we’re used to, so we can get pumped up for a couple of months and then revert right back to where we’re at.[Alec] That is not the truth. By the way, I feel like for everything, like we get focused on something, whether it’s fitness or a new marketing strategy or a podcast, or like I’m going all in and then all of a sudden you’re like, nah.[Danny] Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly.[Alec] The atrophy.[Danny] Yeah. So that’s where habits come in. And so habits are super important. So for me, one of the habits that I was able to maintain was journaling. And so I don’t like to write. So I needed this journal that was simple. That could do like less than five minutes a day, but it touched upon the important questions that I needed to focus in on everyday and this whole concept of Aloha. So I wanted to go back to[Danny][Alec] Yeah let’s break it down.[Danny] This concept of Aloha. Many people think that Aloha is a nice greeting as Hi, goodbye, they see the logo everywhere, they love it. But in Hawaii, you talk to the Alliance. Aloha is a much, much more deeper meaning and as a secret meaning, a lot of Hawaiian words have multiple meanings. So I wanted to learn what that was because what I wanted to do was, you know, learn how to actually live Aloha myself. So I would go to these teachers said, “can you teach me about Aloha?” And they said, well, we really can’t ’cause a low is not something you learn, it’s something that you live. And so, I was working with this, a good dear friend of mine, Paul Yun Shin. He learned from his auntie NTP, Lockie Paki. And there’s this acronym of ALOHA, which you could find this on the internet, but basically the acronym it’s A, for Aloha stands for Akahai, which is kindness and grace, and extending that to others without expecting anything in return. The L in Aloha stands for Lokahi, which means unity or being unbroken. So it’s this connectedness that you have. The O is Oluolu, which means gentleness, agreeable. So basically in your conversations with other people, how do you make them feel? And the H in Aloha Haahaa, stands for humility and also being empty and modest. And the final A is Ahonui, which is patience and waiting for the moment, perseverance. So I thought, wow, I mean, if you could incorporate those values into your life that would be amazing in terms of your growth as an individual and your ability to connect with others. So that’s why I incorporated that into the Aloha term.[Alec] Yeah, in fact, I know, cause you wrote it. I mean, they’re written right there. At the bottom of your journal. It’s all written there for understanding it. And I think it’s fun because you know, for me it’s a whole new culture to understand and try to get into tune with and you know, the Aloha journal, I’m like, I don’t know if that’s for me. You know, I don’t know if Aloha is for me. But it’s been fun getting to understand it at a deeper level, connecting with you on it, like reading the journal. And I think there’s a place in it for everybody. It’s really powerful stuff.[Danny] Yeah.[Alec] So you had stayed consistent in journaling, you had found that was an avenue for you that you wanted to play in, even though you hate writing, which I so resonate with that and I’m sure people who are watching are like, you know, I hate writing too. I should journal, but I just don’t like it. Do you have any tips on how you stay consistent in something that was not something that you felt like, you know, you didn’t like writing?[Danny] Yeah. You know what? I utilized it as a morning routine. So the first thing that I do when I get up in the morning, I’ll meditate and then I’ll go straight to the journaling right after that. Then I link it with something and I think I learned this from this thing called tiny habits where you want to link it with something that you already do. So every morning I always drink coffee. So getting the coffee ready as it’s boiling and getting out my journal, like, you know, it takes maybe a few minutes to boil. I’ll start to do a couple of the prompts.[Alec] Yeah[Danny] And by that time it’s like, you’re already started. You might as well finish the routine. It’s an enjoyable feeling. And you know, when we get into the journal, we can go in a little deeper about like, how, what each prompt means and on the science behind those prompts as well. ’cause what I wanted to do was incorporate best practices from positive psychology, as well as values of Aloha.[Alec] So let’s go back a second here. So you spent a long career in banking and mortgage. You kinda got inspired to take another step into self improvement. And so, you decided to bring this journal to life.[Danny] Right.[Alec] About two years ago, right? So before we dive into the journal, like what would that like? Cause by the way bringing something into existence is hard. There’s hurdles. There’s problems. There’s like, you know, people think you’re crazy, you know, there’s like, Hey, there’s a lot of journals out there. And like[Danny][Danny] Yeah[Alec] So how was that process like?[Danny] You know, it was very interesting because selfishly the journal became a tool for me to stay like aligned. Because one of the reasons why I started on this journey is because I was doing a lot of teaching and leadership development while I was at the bank. Either for the bank or for organizations outside of the bank. And I always wanted to go out on my own, but there was this voice inside that says not, you can’t do it. I mean, are you crazy? Why would you want to do that? You’re getting compensated well in the bank. And people, you know, know you in the community as a banker, how will you actually be able to do that? So I grew up in 25[Danny]year career in the bank with an imposter syndrome. I never, yeah. So it’s a real thing.[Alec] I have discovered people connecting with that all over the place, Danny. I love the vulnerability there. Yeah, I understand.[Danny] Yeah, what happens is I think sometimes we get into careers and all of a sudden the career starts defining us, especially like, you know, five, seven years and you’re like, Oh my God, I’m all in, right?[Alec] Yeah.[Danny] But then there’s this part of us that says like, am I truly realizing my authentic gifts, there’s something in my body or something in my spirit that’s telling me like, No, this is actually not it, but it’s fear that’s preventing you from taking any steps, right? So what happened was, my life, even though I was going through all of this great self[Danny]help and Tony Robbins and different folks like that, I was not actually living the life that I was talking about. So I was living very inauthentically of one day I would be talking about, Hey, we got to be the best versions of ourself and like think positively. And then I’ll be yelling at my family.[Alec] Yeah, I understand.[Danny] so you’re living this dual life, right? And so that’s why I kept grasping, like what is the answer? Like, how can I actually be aligned? And so when it brought me back to the journal and just as I mentioned, going through these different organizations, like the Hoffman Institute, where I learned like, oh what these are just patterns that you learned early on. The other thing I learned Alec was that, when we’re born, right, we have these two needs and these two needs are this need for like attachment and connection. And that’s like basic survival things. You cannot leave a baby alone. And that baby will not survive, it needs the parents.[Alec] Yup[Danny] Particularly it needs a mom.[Danny] Yup. And so we will do anything in our power to actually maintain that connection. So if that means our parents says hey stop crying or stop doing this and that, we will adapt or we might rebuild. one of those two, but we would just want that connection. So the other thing that we desire is this sense of authenticity.[Alec] Yeah.[Danny] But that actually goes away. We actually get disconnected because our yearning for that connection is so strong that we will be willing to leave authenticity on the side. And I think that’s what happened for me. It’s like, it’s unique cause everybody has this yearning, like this feeling inside, like something’s not right. I really should be doing this?[Alec] Yeah.[Danny] but the imposter syndrome starts kicking in, right? Oh, you can’t actually do this. Then the other thing is we actually, because of this disconnection, we start grasping for things external to us that never gets us connected 100%, you see it all the time.[Alec] Yeah.[Alec] People chasing things that some deepers there ’cause they’re chasing stuff that you’re like, why? This is not gonna fulfill you.[Danny] Yeah, so, I realized, whether it was in my career or outside in social settings, I would wear a lot of masks because there was this strong desire to like, Hey, I wanna be accepted. I wanna be approved. So I would wear these masks and then I would feel good temporarily. And then later on, it’s like, gosh, that’s so fake, but I got to keep living that lie, right?[Alec] Well but I am in yeah, I have to do it. So you pivot and it’s crazy after a really long career. And I’m sure there’s others like that. You decide, no, I’m gonna go this other direction. I’m gonna bring something new to the world. And so did you have any road roadblocks to like launch this thing? I mean, did you have any[Danny][Danny] Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was tough doing anything. I mean, luckily I had saved up money. I mean, it wasn’t where I had to jump into another job like right away. I said, Hey, you know what, I’m really gonna take, give this an honest ear to see if this can work. And what I started to do was I started to like pitch the journal to different, anybody that I could.[Alec] Yeah.[Danny] community, schools, like, you know.[Alec] Absolutely[Danny] I would be getting free talks and things like that. And there was a teacher that said, “Hey, you know what? This would actually work with, like, could it work with fourth graders?” I’m like, yeah sure, let’s try it out, let’s try it out. And so, we were doing this pilot with a bunch of fourth graders.[Alec] Really[Danny] They started journaling, right? They didn’t know like how to answer all the questions, but the teacher was very engaged and would do it with them. And one of the things that’s different about this journal, Alec, is going back to that connection piece. It’s part of a value of Aloha that you’re never on this journey alone. It’s always with other people.[Alec] I really like that.[Danny] And then the other thing is, going back to the research that we’re doing on college campuses, where this huge epidemic of loneliness and disconnection. So I wanted to create a tool that we could connect. People could connect with each other.[Alec] Okay[Danny] And it worked really well in captive audiences.[Alec] So how would it, like how were they using it? In fact, let’s prep a little bit and then we’ll get into how they used it and all the stuff, which I found really amazing. But why don’t we go through kinda like what you’ve set up.[Danny] Yeah.[Alec] And I want you to describe it. And I’ll show a little bit on the screen here.[Danny] Okay[Alec] But you built this with intentionality, it’s not just a blank page and like, what your thoughts, like it’s directed.[Danny] Yeah.[Alec] Why don’t you go through the science and why you were intentional and how you you crafted this.[Danny] Sure. Okay. So the journal is, first of all, there’s no date on the journal, like a prefilled date. Like this is Monday because I believe that, you know, any day you pick it up, that’s the day you were meant to start.[Alec] Love that, I love that. And a lot of times what happens is people start journaling and they’ve missed a couple of days, and then they stopped. It’s like, Oh shoot, I can’t[Danny][Danny] Oh yeah. [Alec] It’s Like some guilt or something like residual guilt. Like I didn’t journal yesterday.[Danny] Yeah, exactly. But this one is like, Hey, anytime you’re ready, pick it up. And then the first question is your positive affirmation. Your I am statement. So, oftentimes right, we are built with this negative bias. So you wake up in the morning, you ask somebody, Hey, how are you doing? It’s like, Oh my gosh, tired, it’s Monday, I’m hungry, lonely, and depressed, whatever it might be, right? I believe that the brain, whatever you feed it, it’s gonna find information of why that’s true because its main job is to keep you surviving and safe.[Alec] Yep.[Danny] But if you were to shift that and says, Hey, you know what? I am courageous, I am brave, I am loving. I am Aloha, I am humble. Then the brain is also going to figure out ways on why that’s true as well. So your positive intention, first statement of super, super important.[Alec] So Danny, hold on. I’m gonna try a little experiment here. So give me one sec, that’d be fun. Let me see if I can move that share screen.[Danny] Oh terrific, you got the journal right up there.[Alec] I’m gonna do it even a better format here. So let’s get this going here.[Danny] Yeah.[Alec] Okay this will be fun. And then we can share exactly what is going on here.[Danny] Yeah, so while you’re doing that, I’ll explain like some of the way our minds work. It’s super efficient, right? So research will tell you that we have probably 60 to 80,000 thoughts a day and 80% of those thoughts are negative.[Alec] Yeah.[Danny] And you know what? Worst case scenario, at least it’s gonna keep us safe. 95% of those thoughts are the same thoughts we had yesterday. So that’s the intentionality of saying, you know what? Let’s have some control in our lives and let’s start off the day with a positive thought. I am staying right there on the top. And I’m a big believer in breathwork and meditation and being present. So, the first thing to do is start by taking a deep breath, smiling, and then we start off the day. First, the next question is, what is one thing I appreciate about me? Again, we are programmed so much to look for what’s wrong. So like you could have lost 10 pounds, things looking great. You look in the mirror and you have a zip on your forehead. That is the only you’re going to remember. It’s like, Oh my God, I got it on my forehead.[Alec] One negative thing. Yeah.[Danny] So, if you look for the things that you appreciate about yourself and in the beginning, this is difficult, right? Because we don’t go around thinking, well, I appreciate this. I appreciate that. But start off with the small things, I appreciate that this morning I was able to open my eyes and I could actually see, right. And I have my sense of smell and taste, which not everybody like with COVID that goes away. And you never know how much you take these things for granted.[Alec] Yep[Danny] The fact that I was courageous enough to accept your invite, to be on the show, first time I’ve done podcasting my life. Just the little things that you appreciate about yourself, because what happens is if you can appreciate yourself, then you can appreciate other things in life and the things in life start to appreciate as well. And you can show appreciation for other people, but it has to start with yourself, right.[Alec] Love that.[Danny] This is this whole idea of self compassion, self[Danny]worth. Next question is what are two things I’m grateful for? So this is the question you’ll see with hundreds of gratitude journals, Oprah will talk about it, five minute journal. People say, what are the five things you’re grateful for. Amazing, so I said, Hey, can I just come up with two?[Danny] And if do that on a consistent basis, would that work? So just two things that you are grateful for.[Alec] Yeah.[Danny] And gratitude to me just keeps me more humble because what I realize is a lot of the things that I’m grateful for most things, I have no control over. Like I didn’t have control that the sun is out today and it’s a nice trade wind breezy day and the plants are alive and all of these types of things. So the gratitude portion of it, again, shows appreciation for what’s going well in your life.[Alec] Yeah.[Danny] I could talk about, Oh, these are the bad things that are happening, right.[Alec] Of course[Danny] People are getting COVID, like what’s happening with the storms and the political things and all it is. And that can consume me. But I have to take the time to take a look at this, what I’m grateful for. So in gratitude, one of the things that I’ve learned is the more specific you can be about your gratitude, the more emotion that you can put into that, the greater impact it will have because your brain has these neural pathways that get deeper and deeper with the emotions that you associate with them.[Alec] Yeah[Danny] So I often give this story I like about like, I have a 23[Danny]year[Danny]old son and 18[Danny]year[Danny]old daughter and a daughter that’s gonna be turning 15 shortly. And so my 18[Danny][Alec] All of that I mean by the way, that’s like my total, ’cause I have a 10 and a six year old.[Danny] Yeah.[Alec] Oh, you got, that’s why you could start journaling now.[Danny] My 18 year old, when she, when she was like 10, 11, 12, I could always put my arm around her. when she turned like 14, 15, that became weird. And it’s like, “dad don’t even stand next to me,” right. And so I was like, wow, that was a heart tiller right there.[Alec] Yeah.[Danny] But my 14 year old, right, she still allows me to put my arm around her and shortly that’s not, I mean, I realize that’s not gonna happen, but she still allows me to do that. So that closeness and connection, I’ll wake up and I’ll write about that. I’m so grateful that I can still put my arm around Kyle and it just fills my heart. See, here’s the thing about journaling, the fact that I wrote that down, that event actually played out in my head again. And when I read it back, that event happens again, right. And so what the studies on the mind will say if the mind cannot tell the difference between an event that happened like five minutes ago or five years ago, it also cannot tell the difference between an imagined event and a real event. It triggers the same emotions. Here’s the thing about the connection piece though, Alec, the fact that I telling you about this story and everybody else who’s listening that event didn’t only happen for me, it actually happened for you.[Alec] Absolutely, I’m picturing my six[Danny]year[Danny]old daughter, right.[Danny] Yeah[Alec] Of course, like I go right to the same emotional place that you’re in.[Danny] Yeah.[Alec] ‘Cause I have that same type of connection with my daughter. And so of course, yeah, absolutely.[Danny] Yeah. Yeah. The next question is, what can I get excited about today? Not like a lot of people think, Oh my God, like my life is a drag, but it’s all perspective, right? I talk to people that have jobs then I am like, Oh my God, I hate the jobs.[Alec] Yeah.[Danny] Dude, you have a job.[Alec] Yeah, in fact you already have a job right now, for sure.[Danny] Right, right, right, right. The next question is, I like to call the resiliency question is what’s a challenging situation you might face today? And how does your best self show up for it? So, you know, life is challenging. We’re gonna have challenges every day. It doesn’t mean that your life is a challenge. It just means that there will be moments that will be challenging, but how do we prepare for it instead of running away? How does our best self show up for it?[Alec] Yep.[Danny] So, it could be like today, I’m not used to getting interviewed. So a challenging situation is like Oh might get stuck. My brain might freeze. Like how does my best self show up for it? That was meant to be, just be authentic and just trust yourself.[Alec] You know what Danny, I wanna pivot, I wanna expand on that for a second. So many parallels in that feeling you just expressed to so many things that people are dealing with with social media, with videos and ourself out there.[Danny] Yeah[Alec] There’s always Insecurity of what if I don’t show up the way I really want to show up.[Danny] Great.[Alec] What if I balk something, say something dumb, you know, forget my trainer thought and get lost. And the reality is that’s the stuff that people wanna connect with. They don’t connect with the perfect scripted, produced message. They connect with the mess.[Danny] Yeah.[Alec] Humanity, ’cause that’s all of us.[Danny] Right.[Alec] Oh, I loved your statement and I just wanna kinda just share it again and highlight it because that’s the stuff, that’s where the real connection is.[Danny] Yeah. No, you’re so right. And then I think we talked about that and that was my fear on getting onto the camera was like, Oh no, but what if I say the wrong thing and things like that. But then that shadows my authenticity, right?[Alec] 100%.[Danny] The next question is an important one is how am I feeling? So you can expand on this, like, how am I feeling in my body? How am I feeling emotionally? What am I thinking about in my mind? And it’s important to connect with those types of things. I shouldn’t say like all males, but the males that I know, when you ask them, how, how you’re feeling, they give you a weird looks like, what do you mean, like, how am I feeling?[Alec] So, I have to, this is a shameless plug, but[Danny][Danny] Yeah[Alec] after general MacAulay, who was a 20[Danny]year combat, veteran pilot, and she’s now into her almost the same space you’re in, she’s teaching mental strength, mental toughness. She talks about breathing techniques and meditation, that things that high performing athletes and Navy seals and people need to do. And she says, it’s funny because in the military, when you talk about feelings, men get really like, well, that’s not a thing. And they curve it down. So I love that you’re addressing it head on because it’s a massively important.[Danny] Yeah, totally. So if oftentimes you ask somebody today almost guaranteed, Hey, how are you feeling? Feel good or like fine or okay. So what happens is[Danny][Alec] That reminds me my favorite, living the dream.[Danny] Living the dream, right?[Alec] I don’t want to talk to you about how I’m feeling.[Danny] Yeah, exactly, exactly.[Alec] But what happens is that becomes our vocabulary because we see it so often that we don’t have any other way to articulate how we’re actually feeling and then we don’t wanna go there. But the research will show that if you can get in touch with your feelings and if you can sit with your feelings and not try to either ignore them or suppress them, or take another substance to try to make that thing go away, then you’ll be able to dissipate those feelings. ‘Cause they say the feeling should only last 90 seconds. But often times we feel like if we are feeling like sad, it might be like, my life is sad, which is actually not true. So that ability to understand how you’re feeling and actually feel it in the body, where does it reside in the body? And then the next question is what do I need? Because if you get stuck in that feeling and if it’s a negative feeling, it can feel overwhelming. So the ability to articulate, you know what, I need this right now. So if I’m anxious, I need to feel calm.[Danny] And then, so that’s the feeling question about it. And then the last question that’s there is the Aloha question.[Alec] Yeah.[Danny] So we break down every single value, right? And for a week, you’ll focus in on one value. So if the value is Ahonui, which is patients and reading for them, you might have prompting questions on like, how can I be more mindful today? Or how might I be more patient with others today? Or how might I delay gratification today? So that question will always change. So that’s the morning routine.[Alec] Definitely love it.[Danny] And then you get into then you get a quote. Every day, you get a new quote, and then everybody has this to do this, right? So people’s like, okay, what’s the five critical things you must do today. And things like that. I just shifted the language and it says, okay, instead of things you’d have to do or must do or critically you have to accomplish, what are the things that you get to do?[Alec] Absolutely, I’ve heard that before too. And I love that reframing of have to do versus get to do.[Danny] Yeah.[Alec] Perspective is so good.[Danny] Yeah. So then you look at everything as a gift, right? That’s like, wow, I get to do this. and then, at the end of the day, before you go to bed, three questions, how did I live Aloha today? So if you scroll down a little on your screen,[Alec] Yeah, I got you right there.[Danny] What’s one situation I handled well, ’cause you know, your day could have been a complete mess, but then there might’ve been one thing that you handled well. And then what is anything, something new that I learned today. The reason why I like this as an end of the day routine. And for many of the folks that journal, this is the hardest thing to do because their end of the night routine is get out your phone, see what’s going on on Facebook or, you know, then use how many COVID cases came up today? What’s going on with hurricane Laura or what did the president say today or whatever it might be, right? That’s the last thing that your brain and your mind is gonna to remember as soon as you go to sleep and then that’s how your subconscious works. But if you were to tell your brain that, Hey, look, I lived Aloha today, I handled the situation well today. There’s something new I learned and you go to sleep with that and you wake up in the morning, you start like, wow, I am alive today, I am whole. Those are the things that can help you set you up to being your best self.[Alec] Man, I love it. So now that we kinda got tactical and we kinda went through what is actually in the journal, you’ve got fourth graders in there playing.[Danny] Yeah.[Alec] And I want you to share it ’cause as an adult, we can understand, like I get this stuff like Tracy had a really cool comment, right? Like about perspective and how this journal kind of focuses you in, right? It allows you to have that perspective. And so Tracy, thank you for that wonderful comment. So share a little bit about these fourth graders.[Danny] Yeah[Alec] There are getting to me.[Danny] So, when I first introduced the journal to the fourth graders, they got excited. Anyway ,everybody’s excited to get new things right. and solve different colors and things like that. And they start journaling as a practice every morning. So there’s teachers like in home room for the next five minutes and I think they take 15 minutes. Let’s just journal some of your thoughts. And the teacher would then share like some examples, but the cool thing happens like on Wednesdays, they get together, they have a partner for the week and they just share anything that they want to in their journey, right? And so one of the things that they like to share[Danny][Danny][Danny] Here’s what I’m excited about for the day, whether it’s seeing other playing a new video game or lunch or recess, right? So what happens is as they get more comfortable and trust starts to build, then they might talk about something that they’re scared about or something that they’re sad about. And those types of things, don’t actually come up normally like schools not telling people like talk about what you’re sad about, right.[Alec] For sure.[Danny] But these are healthy emotions. Could you imagine fourth graders starting to talk about that?[Alec] Yeah, I can, My son is in third grade and I’m seeing it already and I’m like, this is gonna be something that we’re gonna institute. So it’s all good.[Danny] Yeah. [Alec] This is amazing.[Danny] So one of the things that the teacher told me, her is name is Mrs. Que She said, you know the amazing thing happened with the sharing, is we have the student that was my challenging student that she would bully kids around, right? And when she went and did the talk, when she got together with another student, the bully, one of the things that I am afraid of today is being you know[Danny][Alec] Bullied[Danny] talked down to by the bully. And so the bully heard this and she said, wow, she might not be talking about me, but I realized that I do have negative impact that I impact on others. So what happened was by the end of the six weeks, I went back and I interviewed these students[Alec] Yeah[Danny] and the bully wanted to get interviewed. And she, and she said this journal changed me. I wanna to be kinder to other people.[Alec] Wow.[Danny] So that’s the power of connection. We think that we live these lives in silos, that says it can’t be only me that has this imposter syndrome or I’m scared, or I think things are going to be terrible. Or it could be the opposite where I don’t know if it’s like this with other cultures, but in Hawaii, you know, our parents tell us, Hey, don’t brag out there, just be humble, right. But at the same time, do not air out your dirty laundry excluding the family name. So we go through life just everything’s cool. Everything’s okay. We never get to express. So it’s good to express the good things. I’m excited about this and the challenging things.[Alec] You know, I think that’s almost universal. I know you mentioned maybe a cultural thing, but there’s so much like, look what society tells us, like be perfect. Look at social influencers and Instagram web celebrities. And like all that stuff. Like all the fakeness, all the like culture. It’s brutal, you gotta look a certain way. You gotta earn a certain thing. You got to act in a certain way. I mean, the culture just gets pushed on everybody. And then the imposter syndrome, people hide and fake it. And I think, Danny, many people are dealing with this. Many, many, people[Danny] Yeah. And it goes back to what I was talking to earlier is this human need that we have from when we were born. This need to be connected and feel authentic. So what the journal does, at least for me, is a constant daily reminder to tell me that, you know what, I’m enough. That there’s so many things that I can appreciate about myself, that I can be grateful for others, that I have this connection with people and through the values of Aloha, one of the ones that I resonate with a lot is this value of Lokahi. Lokahi is this unity and this connection, but the deeper meaning is to be unbroken. So if we’re going through life feeling like we’re disconnected and broken, we are going to desperately grasp for things to bring us back the wholeness. It might be unconsciously that we’re doing it, but that’s what we’re doing. It’s like, validate me, like my post, like that I’m senior vice president of this or president of this, or I’m doing all of these things. And I got a nice car and all of this. That’s just validation because you wanna get back whole. But we do realize that everything that’s external actually doesn’t get you whole, gets you more disconnected.[Alec] I love that message so much, Danny. Personally, I find titles to be so frustrating. I can see how they’re helpful to a degree ’cause they frame up something for somebody. They give somebody kind of an understanding of like, Alec back when I was loan consultants, that was helpful. Like people, Oh, okay. This is what you kinda do. But then when it gets kind of, I’ll use the word, like corrupted and becomes a symbol or something someone’s chasing, it’s toxic.[Danny] Yeah, you just constantly need that fuel to validate you. So you go for another job. It’s like, Hey, wait a minute. In my last job, I was executive vice president. This is a must title that I need to maintain.[Alec] Well, my favorite people that just become CEOs.[Danny] Yeah, yeah.[Alec] Like they got a legal zoom. I am the CEO of whatever . And I’m like, really. The the CEO of what, but that was important. So that they have a CEO on there. So Danny let’s do this as we kinda wrap down here, this has been a really great conversation. And from my perspective, right? Like I lead salespeople, especially in mortgage right now and perspective or something that is so crucial to have, because we’re under a massive amounts of stress right now. Massive amounts of stress because more loans than ever before have fallen on top of our heads. We’re trying to serve our customers. We’ve git exceptions, now those expectations are changing. You know, because now other external pressures and other things happened. And now we have to go back to somebody and change commitments.[Danny] Right.[Alec] What you thought was gonna happen? Isn’t gonna happen that way anymore. And there’s all this intense emotion from our partner, everything else. And we can lose perspective so easily ’cause we hit breaking points.[Danny] Yes.[Alec] And so in that environment and that experience, what would you say journaling would help with?[Danny] Yeah, that’s a great question. I think what the journaling would do, would be giving you some a lot of insights, not only what you’re going through, but what others are going through as well. So a lot of times we think these thoughts in our head, right? But we go back to this basic survival instinct to what does it mean for me? What does is in for me? My customers yelling at me, I’m gonna lose this loan, I’m gonna lose this deal. I am not gonna be okay, right? What the journaling does is it slows you down. It makes you[Danny][Alec] I like that.[Danny] And so people say, Hey, you know what, can you make this thing online? And I’ve hesitated to do like an app for it ’cause there’s tons of apps you can do. Just the cathartic activity of writing things down. Again, ideas imprinted in your brain. So I go back to this value of Haahaa, which is empty. So that’s a good value and what we’re going through right now, because if we’re not empty, we are not able to look at our customers and feel what they’re feeling.[Alec] Yes.[Danny] The frustration of having to apply for a loan again. And now I know there’s all of these different requirements. Like if the person had a job, when they applied, can you make sure before we actually fund that they still have a job, right? There’s like, I don’t wanna ask them that question[Alec] It’s brutal, but we have to, right? I mean[Danny][Danny] But we have to. But we also have to understand how they are feeling. This whole thing about empathy. And if we are so consumed with our own feeling and we cannot empty ourselves to welcome somebody else’s, then that’s gonna be hard. So that’s why the journaling helps. If it says, Hey, what’s a challenging situation I might face today? All of these things that are happening with our world, how does my best self show up?[Alec] Danny, thanks for hanging out today. For everybody that listens to this. And if you’re listening in the future comment, #bypass, that always makes me smile at so many posts to listen in. And I just want to say this, this is a Modern Lending podcast. I normally I bring a ton of heat and energy. I’m pushing strategies forward. I’m trying to drive, you know, the local pro to become more digitally centric and all that amazing stuff. But this is an important conversation because in this craziness, we do have to slow down.[Danny] Yeah.[Alec] We do have to recenter and focus and get our perspective right. And I think that’s just as important in sales as figuring out what your digital strategy is gonna be on social media. I think those things are congruent. I think they go hand in hand. I think that if you play too hard in one, and you don’t focus in on the other, you won’t get to the excesses that you’re capable of. And Danny, I really appreciate your time. Your insight today, this is extremely helpful. There’s a Ashley posted this. We’ll share this in the comments, thealohajournal.com.[Danny] Thank you.[Alec] I’m really grateful for your time today, Danny. Thank you very much.[Danny] Yeah, the pleasure is all my thank you, Alec. And thank you for all the listeners here and listeners in the future. I just remembered that you are already whole. So the journey to Aloha is realizing that when you come back to yourself, you’re already home. And I leave you with that, and good luck with everything and much love.[Alec] Mikey, take us out. We’ll see you guys next time.

Friends! We are going to have a conversation of Personal Brand vs Company Brand. Are they in conflict, are they synergistic. It’s a very important conversation that you do not want to miss!

In this edition of LiveTime with Alec…

• What should a company brand do for you
• What your personal brand should do
• There are brands out there that are trying to make you obsolete
• The importance of the synergy between you and your company

Episode Transcribe

– What’s up everybody, happy Tuesday! Welcome to another LiveTime with Alec, man, we’re gonna get real on this conversation today.I’ve already had so many sidebar conversations with people who are like, oh you’re going there, and I’m like, yeah, I’m going there. We’re talking about personal brand versus corporate brand. The big battle, everything that’s going on in that space, turn the jams down a little bit. This is a really important topic. And before we dive right into what’s more important, supporting your corporate brand or supporting your personal brand. And especially as we frame this up for me, like a commission, a salesperson perspective, my people, like local mortgage pros, man, it’s gonna be radical. I can’t wait to jam with you guys. So first, if you’re watching this in the future, hit me up, #bypassed. We are live on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, YouTube, oh what’s up my man? Yeah, this is gonna be interesting. There’s gonna be a lot of tension in this conversation today, which is good. We need tension, we have to understand what’s going on. Join the text community, hit me up. Trying to give you guys value every single day. Alright, let’s rock. This is gonna be exciting. So what made me want to talk about this today? So let me frame up first what we’re gonna handle today. First, man, as a consumer don’t we love brands? Now, before you start getting all fired up, I see so many people talk about the power of personal branding, and it’s very powerful. And we’re gonna talk about that, but you can’t ignore for one second, the power of mega brands as it pertains to the head space of our consumers. So for example, right, every time I talk about new hire orientation to all the newbies, I bring up a couple of examples. Let’s talk about Amazon for a second. Amazon is a powerful consumer-centric brand, powerful. In fact, when I bring up Amazon, people smile. They get, they’re like, oh my gosh, all these good feelings, right? And I thought that this little corky thing was a smile because I’m dumb and they have everything from A to Z. Right, and think about it, if by the way, if you are getting an Amazon package today, drop a comment right now being like, yeah, me too. The dopamine hits real, right? You get it and you’re like, oh, it’s Christmas. And you know, it’s toilet paper, you know? It’s like, by the way, during the pandemic, when the toilet paper shortage was going down, guess what people weren’t buying? Industrial strength toilet paper, like the ones you find in factories, so I got boxes if you guys need some of that. But like, this is real, right? But here’s the point. There’s no human here that you know or have a personal brand connection to. None, zero humans here. And so, but, man you trust this company, don’t you? You trust it through their marketing, you trust it through the experiences they have delivered to you. You trust this brand, and there’s no person there that you can point to. This is a crazy example of the power of branding that people overlook. They’re like, oh, the personal brand is so much better than corporate brand, and I’m like, really, bro, really? Mom and Pop ACE Hardware Store down the street, you don’t really care anymore, do you? And this is a real thing, is real tension in this place. This has power. So let’s kind of pause for a second and kind of go back to this for a second. Well then what’s the power of the personal brand? You see these mega companies and we’re gonna talk about a lot of them in the real estate space. And in this, the consumer service space who have built mega brands, not tied to a person and that we like and trust and use to the detriment of the Mom and Pop Shop. I’ll use it again, the hardware store down the street that was run by the family that’s lived in your community for 30 years. You don’t care that they’re going out of business. This is the pause where you get mad and triggered. You don’t care! You don’t care, you know how I know you don’t care? ‘Cause you’re just buying everything on Amazon, and you’re not going down to the local store. That’s how I know you don’t care. And empirically, I know you don’t care because I’ve been watching the trend and everyone’s doing it and you’re all doing it and I’m doing it, and so we don’t care. So it’s really silly to say, “oh, the personal brand has so much power” when I’m like, really? But let’s break down what your personal brand does do. Let’s talk about it the same way we talked about these big corporate brands. What does the Amazon brand do? Establishes trust. Through consistency and through experience and through empirical data that you’re living with. And all of a sudden you have this trust relationship and you like it. But the same power is there in the personal brand. If you’re looking for consultative services, you’re gonna probably lean more towards a person than a brand. If you’re looking for a transaction, you might look for a brand. But if you’re looking toward a consultative service, you’re gonna probably look towards a person. And this is the power of personal branding. If your image, if your likeness, if your content, if your message is clear and relevant to the humans you’re preaching to, then when they come to get a consultative service, they’re probably gonna go for a personal brand. Now here’s the conflict, in my industry in sales, it’s both. It’s brand and personal brand. For example, if a brand new loan officer comes into our industry, where do they end up? And look historically please, don’t just look over the last two seconds. Look historically. And by the way, there’s a bunch of you guys watching right now, where do they end up? Where do brand new professionals in our business go? Put it in the comments, I’m reading the comments, put it right there. Where do they go when they’re new to the business? They don’t have any personal brand. They don’t have any experience to talk about. They’ve never done really any loans before. They don’t have that part of the equation. So where do they go? They go to mega brands and banks, banks, right? They go to banks so that they can leverage the power of the corporate brand. Now, I’m gonna tell you a story. So when I left a big mega bank, right, I was involved in an acquisition in the crisis. I was at one of the biggest banks in the country and I was not in alignment with what their goals and strategies were, this is a really nice way of I hated them, but I decided that I needed to part ways. And I went to a small regional correspondent bank, mortgage bank, right? Really traditional mortgage bank called Imortgage. Now, when I started at Imortgage, nobody knew who Imortgage was. It had no corporate brand. The only thing it had was it hired local professionals who had community and personal brand, and they leveraged that personal brand to build brand over time. Over time, Imortgage became a more successful brand to the point that the realtor community and everybody else was like, “hey, I like Imortgage.” Now, they also like the loan professionals that were there, but they started to like the brand as well. This is one of the things where these things start to compliment, but the Imortgage brand, wasn’t doing anything really in the community to help me as a salesperson. Scott has a great comment. Yeah, man, absolutely. Amazon is very tactical, and what they did really, in my opinion, is they just built trust, man. They built trust through reviews, through experience, and that creates a powerful consumer connection. And back to the brands, what should a company brand do for a mortgage professional? Let’s get really mortgage-centric for a second. If you hire a 100% commission salespeople, as one of your avenues to gather customer leads, what should a company brand do? Well let me give you some examples. Number one, they should help build trust with the general public in their brand, so that when you walk in with your personal brand, you’re also walking in with an industry known brand where people know and like and trust it. Now there’s a thousand strategies for that, right? They can, I call it air support, like air coverage. Like they can run national commercials if they’re a national company. And be on radio and be on the internet and all of a sudden people get exposed to that brand and then when they hit my personal brand, who’s selling that service through that company, they automatically have some trust connected. Now, if you’re not a big national player, you can do that through a hyperlocal strategy. By having the company put lots of money into the community, to brand and position themselves so that you, as a professional loan officer can walk around and be like, hey, I’m proud to be part of this company, ’cause they’re doing the air support, they’re flying over, they’re giving me recognition. They’re helping my salespeople with more recognition. I believe that’s the company’s responsibility. Now there’s a lot of companies now, please. Now people get mad here because they’re like, my company doesn’t do any of that, or you’re telling me my company sucks. I’m like, no, I’m just saying your company’s not supporting you in this brand position the way other companies are, period. They might have the best leadership in the entire industry, and they’re personally mentoring you as a sales person and that’s priceless. But then when you go to their, does their brand do anything for me? The answer’s no. Okay, it’s fine I’m not just attacking companies that don’t do this, I’m just pointing out what I think a company should do to support me. Does that make sense? When I worked at Countrywide, there were national commercials that really helped me, I was brand new to the industry. I didn’t know anything. I was learning as fast as I could, and there’s big national commercials, it was a big company and so when I walked into a real estate office, it wasn’t just Alec my personal brand which wasn’t very strong, it was Alec with Countrywide. And before the crisis, that meant something in our industry. And it did, it helped me build credibility. My man Chris, you get it. This is the power. So the other thing a company brand should do besides get trust through the consumer for me, is they should generate business for me. Now I know that sounds weird, but in the mortgage industry, a lot of great mortgage companies are literally just fulfillment houses with a flyer bank, stop it. Okay, and maybe great leadership. Great leadership, a flyer bank, and they close loans for you. Okay. That may be all well and good, but what are they doing in other ways to support your business? How do they generate business for you specifically? And again, they can do that through hyperlocal or national efforts. I’ll give you an example, and this is empirical from my experience at loanDepot, but loanDepot generates tons of consumer attention through digital marketing. They have a contact center in Lake Forest down here who makes about a million calls a day to customers that push buttons on the internet. and they reach out to those customers, they introduce them to loanDepot, they explain the benefits of our process, they vet that customer to see if they’re really a customer. And then they live transfer that to my retail loan officers in the streets. Now, thank you. Thank you! You’re coming to the game was something that dude, this is it, but this is true. And this is what a lot of them have done. And so they play the game of I’m gonna put a bunch of money at you and I’ll give you a good fulfillment company. I’m gonna give you a flyer bank online, and go get me loans. And it’s like, okay, maybe that worked in the ’90s but what are you doing now to brand and support me? Which is why I see a lot of local mortgage professionals diving in on personal brand. And we’re not there yet, that’s segment two. By the way get the Spy vs. Spy theme here, this is my jam. I couldn’t get, anyway, whatever. So in my opinion, again, if you’re gonna check the boxes, does my company help me with brand? That means are they building consumer sentiment? Are they building trust with my consumer that I’m gonna go bump into? Are they helping me generate business in addition to being a kick-ass fulfillment partner and great branding and great flyers and blah, blah, blah. I think this is important. But let’s talk about the personal brand. Because when you offer consultative services and you really lean into you, what do you bring to the table? Then this part starts to really shine, because this part matters. Now, check this out. Sorry Chris, I bumped that up. Check this out, I’m gonna put a couple of brands on the screen. I put these brands on the screen as talking points to dive into this topic. We kinda hit Amazon for a second, right? There’s no human you know at Amazon, but it’s a very tactical experience. I mean, transactional experience. You’re not going to Amazon to get advice on your 401k or your retirement plan, or to build your will. You’re getting a hammer and toilet paper, okay. But let’s talk about Starbucks for a second, because coffee is a thing and people are really big into coffee. So there’s a human that’s gonna make that coffee for you, right, and they could screw it up, they can make it incredibly good, there’s baristas, there’s a level of talent now involved at Starbucks. Now you can argue with not a huge level of talent, fine, making a coffee, fine, but if you talk to some coffee snobs, man, they’ll correct you right there. They’ll be like, you are wrong, sir, talent matters in this game. And so what does Starbucks try to do? Unify an experience at every single location that’s replicatable and systematic, so that if you go into any Starbucks anywhere, you’re gonna get the same experience and exact same coffee drink. That’s the game they’re playing. And they have removed the talent of the barista to a degree, they’ve systematized it to a degree where you don’t care, you follow the brand. Because you know whatever brand you go to whatever store Starbucks you walk in to you’re going to get the same drink. Let’s talk about Uber. Do you remember when you heard first heard about Uber? How did you hear about Uber? Andrew’s tagging some peeps, I love you brother. Thank you. How did you hear about Uber? Do you remember? Do you remember? There was no billboard, was there? There was no internet ad, there was no Superbowl commercial. How’d you hear about Uber? You heard about it through word of mouth. Now, what did Uber do? Create an app and an experience where you’d actually don’t care who’s picking you up. Think about that for a second, like it’s a wild thought. You’re out drinking, hopefully making good decisions, you call an Uber to come drive you home, you have no idea who’s gonna be picking you up. No clue, no clue. There’s a face and some ratings, and you’re like, get in the car! But this is the power of brand. All of a sudden, you’ve gone through some experience with Uber, haven’t you? And then you trust it. This is fascinating to me, there’s no person there, but there is somebody who you’re putting your life in somebody’s hands. I want to be really honest about this, right? You’re intoxicated, you don’t know what’s going on, you’re getting in a car with a total stranger because the app told you to get in. Wild. And then I threw on Zillow and Quicken, these other two companies that are in the mortgage space playing around. And it’s fascinating when you look at what they’re trying to do. Now, there’s more consultative experience now in both of these books, there is, oh there is. And let’s talk about Zillow in the real estate game, right? Like the Zestimate, all the things they’re doing. They’re trying to remove the consultative experience, aren’t they, they’re trying to own it. Which does what? Which diminishes the local professionals, which diminishes one of the local professionals. Man, Josh Pitts, you’ve been hitting this conversation for years, bro, I’m piggybacking on your greatness. Yes, this is crazy when you think about it, I’m imagining my daughter in the future, hopefully drinking responsibly in college and then getting in the car with some random dude, because you pushed a button, in a 1990 Prius. Anyway, what Zillow is doing for real estate is very interesting, they’re trying to take the consultative process out. We have the data, we’ll provide you with the right stuff. And of course, everyone mocks Zestimates and mocks Zestimates. Do you know how many consumers I know that look at Zestimates all day long? All day long, you’re in the industry, so you can mock it all you want, but this is actually making an impact, it’s creating a human connection. They’re trying to remove the consultative process out. In fact, they’re trying to do what Amazon did and what Starbucks did and what Uber did. They’re trying to create such brand connection with the consumer that the consumer no longer really cares about the personal brand aspect of it, the consultant in it. They trust the brand more than the local pro. This is real. Quicken does an extremely good job of this. You can talk trash about them all you want, but they’re kicking your butt in the street and they do an extremely good job, they’re creating connection to a national brand and not to a person. Through marketing and through execution. Do you think if Quicken was closing every single one of their loans late and every single one of their loans with a terrible, terrible price, they would exist in this world of absolute online transparency? Like, are you nuts? Don’t be so ignorant that you would think that if they close terribly every single time, every single time, and they had the most terrible price in the street, every single time. In this world of absolute digital transparency, do you think they wouldn’t be called out for that stuff? Now, I know a bunch of local pros are like, oh, I’ve seen the Quicken quotes and they’re terrible. And I’m like, sure, okay, maybe that one was, but their scale is so much bigger than what you think. So, where does this all kind of lie? See, I think it’s a one-two punch. I do, I really do. In fact, I think it’s anecdotally, I’m experiencing the one-two punch and now I know the power of it. Because there’s super important value in what a company brand brings to the table. In fact, how many of you guys recall when company brands actually were a detriment to their sales force? Wells Fargo! Remember, by the way, I laugh at Wells ’cause you know, it’s fine. Number one subprime lender in the country deserves some pain. I was at Countrywide. I was at Countrywide doing a great job, I wasn’t in the subprime company that was a different sister company, I wrote loans. And I was private and I was local and I worked hard for my people. And yet all of a sudden now Countrywise started being dragged through the mud for this crisis that was happening. That clearly they had a role in, so please, no keyboard warrior start like But I didn’t have that role. And yet all of a sudden, I was connected to that brand. So company brands can actually be an actual detriment. My argument is they should be a benefit. They should be a benefit to support the originator by building trust with the consumer, by helping generate business for the local professional, work and establish strong national brand to overcome objections, I think that’s their job. And then on the personal brand side, I think this is our job, which is incredibly fun, which is to show up in incredible ways to our community through online and local branding even with COVID there’s still local stuff we can do to build a great trust relationship. Look, this is a game about trust. Do you feel me on that one? This is a game about trust. These brands on the screen are doing everything they can to build trust with their customer base, everything they can. So should you, and so should your company. Because when, I mean, Josh, I love, by the way, you’ve been preaching this forever. When you get the one-two punch. And by the way, these things aren’t in congruence. I hate when companies are like, yup, we’re not gonna let you build your personal brand. And I’m like, what are you doing? First of all, don’t be insecure. ‘Cause whenever I hear that, I hear about it’s you got, your company is insecure. Don’t be insecure. When you empower this and the local pro, it magnifies your marketing. It magnifies your impact in the community. And I’ll give a really selfish story, let’s say company A over here hires a really great producer into a new market where this company has no branding and they don’t do any national marketing or hyperlocal marketing. They don’t do any lead generation for their loan officer, they just are a fulfillment house and they hire me, they hire Alec, and I go out there and I work for three years in that market and I crush it. I do a ton of business. All of a sudden, I leave that company or I decided to become a realtor or I leave the industry or whatever it is. I built that company’s brand in that market for them. Because as much as they were associated to Alec, they were associated to the company I worked for that closed the loans. So I built good will, I built brand. This is why supporting personal branding is so self evident to me. Every time you help somebody close a loan, you’re helping your own brand show up in the community like a reliable company, it’s mind blowing. But these things should live in partnership, in partnership. And I kind of pointed that out. Michael, this is a great comment. Uber is a great example, offer a service gather the data that proves its safety, use the reviews and the data. And you become more reliable than a personal relationship. That’s what every single one of these companies is trying to do, 100%. It’s so obvious to me, I hope it’s obvious to you! So, my encouragement, play this game big. Play this game real big, because this game you take with you forever. This game is your digital reputation, your trust with the consumer. This is your piece of the pie, own it, kill it, just thrive in that space. And that’s video, that’s all the stuff we talk about all the time. And at the same time, look back at the corporation you work with and say, are they helping me out on their side? I hope they are. And there’s a lot of great companies that are, and it’s awesome, and they should. That’s the job, this is where this is synergistic. This is where these things play on each other. And again, I’m not talking about the leadership of company XYZ. They could have tremendous leadership and great fulfillment and great flyers and pay you a lot of basis points. Great, they’re checking off boxes all over the place, wonderful to work for. I’m talking about, do they push their company brand forward to help gain trust with you and that shared customer. That’s a box too that they need to check, in my opinion. And so when they do though, you start realizing you’re in it together. You’re on the same street, you’re pulling on the same side of the rope. You’re rowing together in the same canoe in the same direction. That’s where it’s powerful, that’s where you create real change. Brian, who’s just a genius at this stuff. People align with brands, but they align even more with the experience and connection with the people they work with, build your personal brand. It’s a journey. No doubt, it’s a journey. And if a company can come next to you and help you in that process and introduce you to local customers and have hyperlocal or national commercials or air cover so that as you’re out there building your business, the community, the referral partners, the customers are like, you know what? I know that company, I don’t know you yet Alec, but I know what they stand for, I’ve seen some of their stuff. Realtors I’ve closed loans with them before. This is where the power comes to play. Now, I set all that up. I set all that up to land on one final point. Oh, what’s up Shilo. Yes, to land on one final point that I want you to just really burn in your mind. I did a social audit last week on LiveTime. I pulled up a bunch of people’s social media. There was one universal theme, and these were all local pros working for large non-banks. There was one major theme. They didn’t have any of this showing up. They had all of this. They had all company brand on everything and they had none of this. My friends you’re not leveraging the one-two punch. The company brand is great, it should support you, it should enhance you, it should give consumer confidence in you, but you are so much deeper and more powerful when you start to let your own self out at the same time. I saw a lot of corporate banners of just the brands of the company. And I’m like, that’s fine if that’s adding value to you, but where are you in this conversation? Because you matter in this experience, you know what these companies are doing? Can you see what they’re doing? You don’t matter in this world as a local consultative mortgage professional, you don’t matter in this world. But if you show up and you start to lean into your digital community, hang out with them, communicate with them, share your stories, share your messaging. Then all of a sudden you start to bump those brands to the side because now they not only trust maybe the company, but they trust you. That’s the game. It’s a one-two punch. It’s a knockout. It’s not just the brand, the brand, the brand, the brand, the company brand. And it’s not just myself, myself, myself, both those things have to be in congruency, in alignment for it to really be unleashed. I love this comment Scott, they don’t buy brands, they join them, they become them. I used to ask people what do you like about, what do you feel when you see the Amazon logo? And the emotional connection they have to that brand is physically obvious. So you’re right, they become Amazon people. This is my whole point, this is my whole point. If you become, oh Michael’s crushing it too. If you become just the billboard for the corporate brand, you’re missing out on the second punch, the second punch is the value you bring. And you bring incredible value. And if you, for one second, think that your value isn’t there or that you’re new, and you don’t know what your value is. Here’s my favorite part. I’m new, so I don’t have a lot of confidence or I don’t know a lot yet, so I’m just gonna use the corporate branding stuff. Fine, good, well-intentioned, but you know what you else can share? What makes you, you in this business, not your knowledge, but your conviction to serve your customers the best way possible. Conviction sells just as much as product knowledge. So share who you are, share what makes you tick, your heart while you’re in the game. And then as you build knowledge, you can start sharing that part too. But again, the personal brand is personal! You! And don’t ever forget it. Don’t ever forget that you matter and in these companies, you don’t. I’m not, look, that might piss somebody off with those companies, but I’m just saying, I want to leverage your personality in your local community to generate business. And then I’m gonna compliment that from a company perspective, I’m gonna put national commercials on. I’m gonna call every customer in your geography that pushes the button on the internet, and doesn’t call you first. And I’m gonna route them back to you. I’m gonna be in the game with you. That’s the power of this whole thing. So my encouragement for you right now at the end of this little LiveTime, my encouragement for you is when you go look at your own stuff, when you look at your content, when you look at what your messaging out, are you even showing up, do you even exist? If you don’t as a person change that immediately, show the world how amazing you are. Show them your conviction, show them your heart, your personality, show them what you’re about. And then at the same time, don’t ignore the power that this can provide as air coverage. There’s real power here, we just saw it. How many customers are all about these brands? Absolutely, there’s power in brand. And there’s also power in your personal brand and all comes down to trust. And if you’re firing on the same line, if you’re pulling on the same side of the rope, you can do incredible things with your career. If there’s alignment, go out, put the camera on. You guys, this was fun today. Alright so, you can kick out now, but here’s what’s coming on next month, I put a ton of time and effort into next month. We’re gonna be talking about a month long LiveTime series, four part series starting in the first week of September called “Dig In”. And I hear a ton of questions for me personally today about where do I start? Okay, I’m in it, I got you, girl. I got you, I’m coming in. And so I have a series called “Dig In”, which is digital influence the beginning, dig in, get it? Yeah, yeah you got it. You got it. And we’re literally gonna be walked through the playbook on where to start, what platforms to be on, how to grow there. What should I post, when should I post, how should I post? Literally tactical, tactical, tactical for you, a guidebook to help you build digital influence. Dig in with me in September, all month. We’re gonna be rocking through it. And of course, of course, I know that we’re all extremely busy. For all of you guys that have been rocking with me today, I’m so blessed, this is so fun. But for those of you watching this in the future, trust me, it’s okay, I don’t care. I don’t care if you tuned in live with me, I just care that there’s something you learn and act on. And I’m seeing it everywhere, ’cause there’s a lot of great people like Brian Coby and Michael and Josh Pitts who are out there making content to push our industry forward. But we got to show up, because the enemies here, guys, wake up. The enemy has a play that doesn’t involve you, alright? But I think, I think you deserve a seat at the table. Join me in September for Dig In, I hope you guys appreciate it. Peace out everybody! You’ve been amazing today, this has been a blast. I will see you guys on the internet. Have a wonderful, wonderful rest of your week.

For nearly four decades, Dale Vermillion has dedicated his life to helping loan officers, sales managers, and lending executives reach new levels of success in their lives and careers. Join Dale and I as week speak more about the industry and how it’s doing today.

In this snippet of the Modern Lending Podcast…

• Learn Dale Vermillions BIG 3 Tips
• Work life Balance is a key to success
• Make sure to have the same mindset of success at throughout the day
• What needs to be focused on during this unprecedented time in our industry

Episode Transcribe

[Alec] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another Modern Lending Podcast live. Baby, are we loving the lives. This is the world that we live in. Welcome to COVID . Exciting guest today. We’re gonna dive into the real dirt, like the real meat of what our mortgage professionals, our sales professionals, are dealing with today. Solutioning out how to thrive in their business and how to even go beyond what’s we’re facing today with record volume and all this craziness, so Dale Vermillion is the founder and CEO of Mortgage Champions. Nearly four decades this guy has been pouring his life into helping loan officers, leaders reach new levels of success. He’s trained over a million professionals. If there’s anybody that knows what he’s talking about, it’s this guy or he’s convinced everybody he has. And so I’m really excited. He’s joining us on vacation. So you gotta give him some love for that. So without further ado, let’s bring on Dale, and rock and roll. Dale, thank you for joining us.[Dale] Alec, great to be here, man. Thanks so much for having me. What a privilege.[Alec] So I love to share this ’cause it’s funny we were on guys, before we went live and there was this jingling happening in the background. I’m looking at Dale’s, I’m like, “Are you out in the woods? Like, this is amazing.” And it had these wind chimes he had to take down. Dale, where are you? So everyone can get a little insight here.[Dale] You know I’m up at our cabin up in the Blue Ridge Mountains of North Carolina and just loving some time with my bride and just enjoying the beauty of nature. It’s just unbelievable out here.[Alec] That’s so cool. That’s amazing. I was jealous just seeing the background. That’s amazing. So Dale let’s do this as we dive in, before we get into the questions and really digging into the the tactics to help our loan professionals right now in this really crazy time. Share with everybody like, how did you get into this space with doing what you do? Like what pulled you into this area of the world?[Dale] Yup. Well, back in 1983 when I started in the industry, I actually came out of high school in 1979 and worked construction for three years and was actually standing on a scaffold and guy said, “You talked a lot, you ought to be in sales.”[Alec] Yes.[Dale] I don’t think it was a compliment. So I took him up on it and got a job. I actually first selling pots and pans door to door. Didn’t wanna do that for a living and then got in the mortgage industry and you know, this is, Alec, the greatest industry ever. I mean, I spent 12 years in the business from a loan officer to a branch manager, to district manager, to regional vice president to running a national mortgage company. And in 1995, decided to go out and actually start training and consulting because I was fortunate enough to work with thousands of top producers that I had worked with and trained and brought in. And we’ve learned, we’d built a selling system that just absolutely worked.[Alec] Yeah.[Dale] In 1995 I decided to try my toe in being an entrepreneur. And 25 years later here I am, had a chance to train over 600 companies and a million loan officers and just love this business, love what we can do for consumers and love how we change lives every day.[Alec] You know, I was just talking to a buddy. in the industry and you’re so dead on and where I’d love to kind of go first in our conversation is that this is almost the greatest hidden industry in the country. I mean, people don’t know about it or talk down on it or whatever all that stuff, the biases against it but it is incredible. I mean, it’s blessed my life unimaginably.[Dale] Yep.[Alec] So let’s talk about new blood. Like why would somebody join the mortgage industry today? I think that’s a really important question. I hope that the viewers who are watching this now and in the future tag somebody who’s not in our business because by the way, there’s a pandemic happening. There’s some businesses that are struggling and yet the mortgage industry seems to be thriving. So Dale, what would you say to somebody who was new and thinking about joining the mortgage industry?[Dale] Well, ’cause I think we’re the oldest business in the industry or in the economy to be honest with you, other things that are claimed to be, but look, we’re the money business. We’re in the business of helping Americans become homeowners and then take that home ownership and capitalize on it and maximize it. And when you think about, you look over the last 50 years and you look at wealth built in the U.S. it’s predominantly built through real estate. That’s how most people do it. And therefore, if you’re thinking about being in this industry today, you’d be crazy not to do it because our product is never going away. It’s money. Everybody likes it, everybody wants it, nobody’s got enough of it. And they’re all looking for more of it. And we got an ultimate supply. It’s a great business.[Alec] You know, I compliment that too. And I look at it this industry today, how radically it’s changed, I got into the game in 2003, and there was another refi boom happening back then, which was interesting. But like now looking at the game and looking at social media, looking at video, looking at all these in places that we’re on I’m like, man, if you are a young millennial this is the perfect industry. You can flex all your entrepreneurial desires, you can be on social, you can be connecting to human scale, you can be virtual effectively ’cause COVID forced that on us anyway, but you could have before. And I’m like, man, and the sky’s the limit. The sky’s the limit.[Dale] It is. I mean, I’m a poster child for that. I mean, I came out of high school. I had no college degree, never went to college and ran a national mortgage company with 2300 employees before I became a consultant. Like you can’t do that in any other industry that I know of. So the opportunities in this business are endless. It is an incredible industry and we truly do change the lives of our customers when we do it right. And that’s the beauty of this business.[Alec] And the crazy thing too is that we change the lives of our customers, our lives get changed.[Dale] That’s exactly right.[Alec] It’s unbelievable. So speaking of our lives being changed, it seems that there are loans falling from the sky.[Dale] Yup.[Alec] And that’s causing massive issues. Good and bad to our professionals, our salespeople. Leslie noted that on LinkedIn, it seems audio and service are cutting out a little bit less. If you could jump to Facebook or YouTube. Let me know. I super appreciate that. It sounded clear to me and we’re on bandwidth but I super appreciate you jumping in and sharing. So Dale like, with record volumes comes record pain and hopefully record paychecks. I mean, good and bad. But like in your coaching people through this stuff, what are you hearing? How are people responding? What are you leaning into and pushing through for people? What’s going on?[Dale] Well, a couple of things that I can mention about that. First off, if you think about the Charles Dickens book “A Tale of Two Cities”, it starts with the statement. “It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.” That’s where we’re in right now. We are in the best times we’ve ever seen. And also it is the most stressful and high volume times we’ve ever seen. So here’s the first thing that I remind people. Number one, keep reminding yourself every day, constantly throughout the day, how blessed we are to even be employed in this world we live in. And to make the incredible amount of money we can make with unlimited potential. That’s number one. Number two, if you really wanna move your pipelines and you really want to be effective and successful to be able to handle this high volume, the answer to that is not speeding up and rushing. That’s the wrong thing to do.[Alec] Totally.[Dale] The answer is slowing down. You have to slow down enough to do it right the first time so that you get a good file and you build a good relationship. You protect that, that you know, loyalty of that customer, and you give your Ops team a chance to do something that really allows that file to move through without a lot of touches and a lot of hesitation and your files move quickly and you’re very successful in these times.[Alec] So let me ask you this ’cause it’s one of my favorite things. So right now we’re in a housing shortage. There’s not enough houses. There’s huge pressure.[Dale] Yeah.[Alec] So somebody is out there trying to buy, is trying to put in the best offer they can to buy the house.[Dale] Yup.[Alec] And our real estate partners are under a lot of pressure to make their deals stand out. So they’re turning right around and putting pressure on their lending partners saying, “You better close this loan fast. I need to guarantee you close this loan in 20 days.” And the loan officer is looking at their pipeline and looking at the company going, “Huh!” And then either they’re laying down and saying, “Yes, I will”. And they’re promising something they can’t commit to, hoping that they can somehow pull this out. But you know, how do you go back to the, to the realtor and say, “I can’t close that fast”. And watch the realtor say, “Well, I’m using somebody else or something.” How do you deal with that pressure?[Dale] You know first off, you have to educate on realistic expectation. The number one mistake Alec that I’m seeing today that I believe loan officers are making is we don’t set right expectations from the start. We’re not training our realtors to understand. It’s not a 30 day business anymore. It’s a 45 to 60 day business now. And it’s because we’re not the only ones that control it. We’ve got all of the outside companies that we use from the title companies to all… different services, everything we’ve got. It’s a multifaceted process. So we don’t control what happens with people getting COVID. We don’t control what happens with people being at a home with children and they can’t get to things to get them done. It’s a different world. So you have to set right expectations. And you have to understand this, that if you can prove to your realtors that you’re gonna give better service, a better loan program with better options that provides better choices and you’re gonna be better for that realtor in promoting their business than anybody else, that borrower will wait 10 more days. I guarantee it. You just have to set that expectation from start. And, you know I always push back and say any lender out there saying that they’re gonna close in 10 days, clearly must not have a big pipeline. They must not be good at their job. They must be pretty bad at their job if they’re like, “I have tons of capacity.” Like, “You don’t do loans very well then? ‘Cause you shouldn’t.”[Alec] Yeah.[Dale] You are their only customer.[Alec] That’s a bad sign. So here’s the other thing Dale I think is a challenge. You know, setting expectations, telling your partner, having the courage to tell your partner the reality of the situation, without feeling that they’re gonna abandon you and run down the street to the guy who saying they can close in two days, all that stuff is as part of the game. But I’m also watching people turn into order takers kind of. And I know you’re passionate about this. You have thoughts on it. And I’d love for you to kind of just start sharing your viewpoint on this because it can be hard, right? We were getting calls. And people were like, “Can you do this?” And you say, “Yes”. And then “Can you do this?” And you say, “Yes”. And we’re not even working in our business anymore.[Dale] Yup. You know, these kind of markets I’ve been through a bunch of them in 37 years, as you can guess. These kind of markets, when you have incredibly low rates, high volume like this can wreck a career more than any other thing I’ve ever seen.[Alec] I love that you said that. Because right now people are having their best month of their career. And you’re saying you’re gonna wreck it.[Dale] You are. Because what happens is, we stop taking care of our business the way that we traditionally and normally do in a normal marketplace. And these marketplaces are far and few between they come and go very quickly. You can make a lot of money if you do it right. But you have to understand you gotta nurture your customers, you gotta build the same relationships. you gotta do it the right way, Because if you just start order taking and rushing through everything, remember everything that you do everyday creates a new habit. You’re building new habits. So all of a sudden the industry changes, The FHFA comes out, they raise, put this tariff that we’ve got.[Alec] Tax, Yeah.[Dale] Yup. It changes everything. And also business slows down and they’re like, wait a minute it’s not working anymore. This order taking mode isn’t working because now customers actually want me to tell them why I should choose them versus just, “Hey, I want that 3% rate. Can you give it to me as quick as possible?” So you’ve got a 10 year business well in this time, so you build a longterm business and you don’t become unsuccessful after this is done.[Alec] Man I love that advice. You know, it’s the ant and the grasshopper, right? Like, so if the ants are preparing for winter, the grasshoppers saying, don’t worry about it it’ll never come.[Dale] Yeah.[Alec] And I think that the message you’re sharing is so dead on. Like our great mortgage professionals have to be focusing on what’s next. And it’s a hard thing to balance for sure. But if you’re not focusing on what’s next, they’ll just like you said, it’s gonna be here before you know it, and you’re not gonna prepare for it.[Dale] Yeah. And I would ask every producer out there this question today. What are you doing with the excess that you’re making right now? If you’re spending it, you’re crazy. You ought to be banking that because you know what, there is always gonna be ebbs and flows in this business. And when the market turns and we’ve been through tough times and we’ve been through great times and guys like you and I have been around for decades, we’ve made it because we understand that. We know that’s how the business goes. Therefore you wanna make sure that you’re banking that stuff and you’re being very wise about how you’re handling not just your business, but your financial side of your life.[Alec] That advice cannot be stated enough. Especially if you’re new in this business. Like if you’re lucky enough that you’re in like year two, and you’re like, “Oh my God, this is incredible”. Like, this is not going to stay like this. Like put the money over there, like, please don’t make the mistake that so many mortgage professionals do and go out and buy the Lambo or whatever it is. Like don’t do it. It’s the disaster.[Dale] Well, and don’t fall into the trap that I see all the time. So we hit the high volume of leads. So what do we do? I got to get through the lead, I got to get through the lead, I got to get through the lead so I can get to the what? To the next one. So what we do is we rush to fail is what we actually do. You got to remember, and I say this every time I’m interviewed, but it’s so important. One committed sale a day, one committed sale a day. If you get a borrower that commits to the deal and does all the things you need them to do to show full commitment. In your pipeline is gonna put 21 deals a month in your pipeline. That’s 15 loans closed. Two of those a day is 30 loans closed. And three of those a day is 45. So my question all the time to the loan officers is, what’s your rush? Why are you hurrying through? Because if you do it right three times a day, you close nearly 50 loans a month. Which is incredible numbers and incredible income, and you’ll sustain the right kind of business going forward.[Alec] Yeah, I mean, talk more about the importance of a loan officer saying no to the non[Dale]ideal customer. Like there’s so much maturity in that. To look at a customer and be like, “I’m not gonna work with you.”[Dale] Hey, if you’re dating for marriage, you’re gonna have to say no. Because if it’s not the right match, it’s not going to last. It’s that simple. So one of the things that loan officers have to be very very good at in these times is very quickly pre[Dale]qualifying that bar on the front end for the major things that matter. Credit scores, income availability, income verification.[Alec] Sustainability, yeah.[Dale] Sustainability. those are simple things to do that save you time so that you can spend more time with the borrowers who are qualified. But look, here’s the bottom line, don’t be chasing business in this marketplace. Don’t be taking the junky stuff and running after that. When you look at something and you know it’s gonna take three or four times, as long as the normal deal, kill it. Move on to a better one. Because you can do three or four more deals in the same time as that one. So why are you wasting your time chasing that rabbit?[Alec] Dale I love that so much ’cause so many loan officers I know they see dollar signs. They get the lead, and they think bank, money in the bank. And they don’t realize that one customer could derail your entire pipeline. They could be such a time suck.[Dale] Yup, they can. And an attitude suck too. Don’t, don’t forget that.[Alec] Oh, yeah. And then not even fund. And then just cancel on you for like. And you’re like, well that was[Dale] But that’s a really great point Dale. And it’s something everyone needs to be focused on. Is this the right customer for me? Am I the right consultant for this person? And if not, let him go. Let him fly for you. There’s more fish out there right now.[Dale] Yeah. Especially in these times.[Alec] So Dale, what other threats are you seeing that our loan officers might be missing because they’re so busy that they need to be paying attention to and making sure they’re intentional with, to stay viable in the long run.[Dale] The one thing that is absolutely critical today and I think loan officers think this is a problem when it’s actually their solution. Is you have to continue to nurture the relationship with the customer and the relationship with the realtor through the process. What I see a lot of today is okay, we get the deal. Alright maybe we think we do it right, maybe we even do a high quality application and we stick it in. But then we go on the black hole that we don’t talk to that customer, we don’t talk to that realtor and then we wonder why we get unhooked three weeks later. Look, you’ve got to stay in contact because there’s so much pressure from technology and credit triggers and all of the different things out there that are attacking your borrower. You gotta stay in touch.[Alec] And it’s hard to do when there’s a lot on your plate.[Dale] It is unless you know how to plan well. If you understand, it’s all about time blocking. And it’s all about saying, you know what, I’m gonna take one day out of the week, maybe that’s my Friday afternoon at two o’clock in the afternoon. And I’m just gonna call every one of my deals in my pipeline. I’m sure you don’t have more than a hundred deals in your pipeline if you make a hundred calls. So what? And I’m gonna make sure that I touch base and make sure they’re okay. Because weekends is where you lose deals…[Alec] Oh, that’s a great comment. That’s a great comment. Yep, So let me ask you this Dale ’cause you’re coaching a lot of people. How do you lean into that old work life balance kind of conversation when you mentioned a great comment. Weekends you lose deals.[Dale] Yup.[Alec] Right? So, ’cause people are out there like that there, they finally have free time, they’re shopping, they’re moving, they’re doing all this stuff. So how do you coach into that? And what advice do you give right now to people about balance? Because it feels like maybe there isn’t some.[Dale] Yeah, but that’s such a great question Alec because it’s very true and it’s very important. You know, I just did a post with a picture of the, mountains here that, we see on LinkedIn and said, look, you gotta remember in these busy times, it’s easy for us to make excuses why we don’t have time to get away. You better make time to get away because you need sanity and you need to be at your best game in these times. Here’s the bottom line. Balance is important at any time no matter what the marketplace is doing. As I’ve said many times, you don’t wanna work so hard and so long and make so much money that your current spouse can spend it with their future spouse. That’s not the goal.[Alec] That’s the nugget. That is so good. Absolutely.[Dale] That’s so true. So, what you have to do is you have to plan and purpose everything. Make sure you build your purpose first, plan everything around that. And when you plan your schedule and you build your time blocks, plan for not just your professional business time, plan for your personal time. Make sure you’re putting time away for your spouse and your kids and your friends and yourself taking care of yourself. These things are very very important. Because you’re no good to anybody if you’re not in balance. It’s just that simple. You’re gonna break.[Alec] Yeah, I know it’s hard ’cause there’s some people that say, “Hey, the fish are swimming, time to fish”. But if you don’t figure out when to take a break and breathe, and by the way, this is so funny. Like when we started the work from home craziness, I had an aha moment because I was sitting in my garage in my desk in that little office I built. Like up for like all day. like just right in the zone and I’m like, Oh my God, I’ve taken zero breaks. Like I’ve just been zero and I’m like, why am I blasted? Because I was, there’s no natural breaks, there’s no drive to work, there’s no lunch. You just sit there and eat, you’re at home and that discipline is huge. Changes the game.[Dale] Yeah, you’ve gotta create an environment working from home as if you weren’t working from home. But you also have to be sensitive to those things in life. So if your kids are home and you’re sitting in your office and you know you wanna spend a little bit of time with them, you’re gonna be feeling guilt where you’re not gonna be performing at your highest level anyway. Plan breaks during your day. Take 20 minutes, go out, sit down with them, have a snack with them, enjoy some time with them. Make sure that you’re building your day out so that you’re more efficient and effective in the times you’re working but you’re taking those breaks to kind of catch that breather and get yourself regenerated. Regeneration throughout your day is really important.[Alec] I love that. I wanna echo it. I mean, the fact that you can plan a lunch date with your daughter or kids, that you can build it into the schedule so that you can be like, “Okay, now I need to shut this off”. And don’t operate just organically, like build a plan around it and you’ll be happier. I love that. Dale, Let me ask you this, I love this question. I normally ask it at the very, very tail end, but we’re gonna go down a rabbit hole here. So I wanna just hit it now. If you’re sitting in front of a 30 year veteran of our industry, like mortgage professional, right pro, and next to them is a five month brand new loan officer,[Dale] Yup.[Alec] And they’ve got you for whatever kind of time they paid for and they’re gonna ask some questions and they’re looking for advice,[Dale] Yup.[Alec] Where do you start with them? What do you start talking about? What do you start sharing with them? They’re looking for direction. You’ve got a lot of wisdom here, where do you go?[Dale] Well, I think the first thing that I would do is remind them that, if you don’t continually educate yourself every day for the rest of your life, you’re never gonna get to where you wanna be. I think that’s number one, okay. Robert Ringer has a great quote. He says, “Success is a process of literally just taking and learning and learning and learning and taking great habits and replicating them.” That’s all it is. It’s really really important to understand that. So I would start by saying first off, I’d look at the veterans and say, “What do you on every day to recharge your battery and get yourself in the right mindset and make sure that you’re continually growing and educating yourself.” For the new person I be like, “You better be studying and talking with guys like this one right here, or girls like this one right here or senior veterans who are crushing it and learn from them as much as you can.” The single most important factor that I talk about with managers and leaders every day in finding great employees, is finding people with a teachable spirit. Who are willing to learn, who are willing to grow, and who are willing to change because this is an ever changing business. So the first thing I would tell anybody is, be prepared to educate yourself regularly, be prepared for change. And remember that it’s not about how much you know, as much as how well you do what you do. Attitude is such an important part of our business. And yes, you need to know the business. There’s no question about it. But at the end of the day, if you know the business and you’ve gotten grizzly and you’ve gotten cranky, and I see this all the time when I travel the country, you’re not doing anybody any good. You’re not closing a lot of loans.[Alec] You know, I really love your first comment there. So I wanna pick your brain more. Constantly be educating yourself, constantly be leaning into new things, figuring out new ways to play the game because it’s always changing. I think that’s such an overlooked, you know, facet. Because there’s a lot of people who like today, this is a great example. Like digital marketing and digital social media, this whole new space here these little boxes now that we live in on screens. There’s a lot of more professionals like me who were trained to go out every single day and get eight business cards from realtors and don’t come back if you don’t have those business cards. And so we went through that pain, it was uncomfortable, we sucked at it. I was 23, I was walking in to try to talk to this top agent I felt like an idiot. And you kind of went through that uncomfortableness, and a lot of us that are still in the game kind of came through it. But now it’s almost like you’re asking me to go back in, ’cause now I’m saying, now there’s a new place to play and you’re not good at it yet, but you’re gonna have to go in. And people are like, I don’t wanna go get uncomfortable again.[Dale] Yup.[Alec] I did all that in my early days. But your first comment, Dale is dead on. Always be learning and always be looking for the next thing.[Dale] Look, if you’re not willing to change, then you’re in the wrong industry. The mortgage, constantly things are changing. Our partners are changing, products are changing, regulations are changing, pricing is changing. It’s a constant ebb and flow that you’ve had to work within. So you’ve gotta be willing to understand that I gotta know where the market’s at. I gotta stay ahead of that market all the time. And I gotta make sure that I focus on the one thing that matters more than anything in this business. And it always has. And that’s relationships. If you don’t have relationships, you don’t have a business in this business.[Alec] So let’s do a little pivot here for a second Dale. I know you coach and mentor a lot of leaders. And leading in this digital space right now is a whole new thing.[Dale] Yup.[Alec] And it’s causing its own challenges because you can’t get physical anymore. I know a lot of leaders that are used to being physical. They wanna be in the office space, they wanna be having face to face meetings and all that. And they can’t do that the way they used to do that. So where are you coaching in this regard? Where are you seeing the people thrive or not perform? I mean, let’s get some advice, let’s talk about it.[Dale] So let me give you the big three. And the big three is what I teach every single leader that I’ve ever trained in my career and it’s transformational for many companies and many leaders in the way that they look at their business and the results that they get. And the big three starts. Number one with, you have got to have a morning meeting every morning with your team. It is an absolute essential part of the business. Like there’s no way I managed for 11 and a half years. And as a branch manager, I had a morning meeting. As a district, I did and all my managers did. As a regional, everybody underneath me did. We did it every single day because here’s what I knew. As a leader, my job is to infuse in my people, three things in that morning meeting. Number one, what are your goals? What are you gonna accomplish today? Let’s talk about that. I wanna make sure we’re on the same page. Number two, I’m gonna educate you on something. I’m gonna teach you something today that you may not know. I’m gonna make you better every day ’cause that means I improve you 250 times a year. And number three, I’m gonna motivate and inspire you. I’m gonna make sure you walk out of this meeting, excited about your day, excited about our company, excited about what you’re doing, because my job is to infuse my energy and my motivation and my enthusiasm into you every day. Not to just let you show up when you feel like it and go work and do it the way you want, because here’s what I know. People will start their day very poorly if you don’t start it for them. It is critical you do that. And today we can do it by Zoom. We can do it in these kinds of ways and that’s the way we should be. You wanna see your people. You don’t want to do it by telephone ’cause you wanna make sure they’re actually in the game each morning. That’s the first thing.[Alec] Wait, hold on Dale. Well, don’t go deeper yet. I gotta unpack the first thing again.[Dale] You got it.[Alec] This is massively impactful. I absolutely agree with your statement and I’m realizing in myself like I don’t do that very well myself as a leader. But I love it, so your encouraging. Your number one is get face to face in the video world Zoom. So make people show up. That way no one can hide, don’t get on it. You gotta have the camera on. You gotta show me you’re here to play the game.[Dale] That’s right.[Alec] Unless something’s going on in your life, where you have a doctor appointment or like things that were normal back in the day. But that’s a high level of accountability.[Dale] It is.[Alec] That you’re providing not only to yourself, cause you got to show up. Like Dale is gotta be on there every day. But for everyone else on the team. Man, I love that and I think that’s a huge call[Dale]out, ’cause I guarantee you, I guarantee you that’s not happening.[Dale] There’s no question about it. And the reason is ’cause we think we’re too busy. But…[Alec] Yeah.[Dale] We gotta stop and we gotta make sure that everybody’s working in the same direction and everybody’s working with the same positive powerful mindset, and everybody’s working to accomplish the same goals. And I can look even on a Zoom I can look at people and tell if they’re just off kilter.[Alec] Oh yeah, of course, of course. So, okay. What’s number two?[Dale] Number two is once you complete that, then the next thing I want you to do is I want you to have your people. And this is going to sound crazy to veterans because they always argue with me on this until they do it. And that is, they need to warm up. You literally should never make a single sales phone call without having warmed up first. It should never happen. Why? Because you could get 10 leads today and you don’t know which of those 10 is the best but there might only be one or two good ones. And that might be the first one you get. And if you have not done any level of practice or warmup, what happens is you’re going in cold. I don’t care how much experience you got. You just rolled out of bed. You haven’t had your three cups of coffee yet.[Alec] So true.[Dale] You’re not prepared for this customer and they whack you. And I’ve learned this when you get whacked first, I mean, I’ve said it many times, how many of us show up at nine o’clock in the morning, pumped up and ready to go. And by 9:30, we’re ready to go home. Happens a lot because we get beat up on the first call because we were not prepared. Practice is the baseline of preparation. So I want my people to practice as number two. And the number three, and this is so critical…[Alec] Wait wait wait. Don’t head to three yet. How do you practice?[Dale] So two things. Number one. I want you to first, just you shouldn’t[Dale] Every loan officer should have a presentation for both the realtors and for their customers. Their value prop should be less than one minute. It should be the conversation on every single call you get. And I teach these all the time. When you get a bar on the phone, you better have something powerful to say in the first 60 seconds that they go, “Oh wow, okay.” They should understand you, they should know your credentials, they should know what benefits you’re gonna provide, they should know how good your service is, they should know that within the first minutes. So you wanna practice a warm up with that. You also want to practice your pitches with realtors. What are those conversations gonna sound like on a prospect? If I’m prospecting today, I wanna warm up my prospecting calls before I make a prospecting call, so that I’m doing it the right way. That’s really essential. And then get a role play partner. Actually have another loan officer that you guys call each other in the morning, just for 10 minutes. And you beat the tar out of each other with objections and you overcome them because what it does is to get you in the mojo that you need to be very powerful. And I have had many people say “I don’t have time for that.” And I’ve had people look at me and go, “Well, you know what, I’m closing 40 loans a month ’cause I took that tip from Dale 20 years ago and I’ve been doing it ever since and it works.”[Alec] You know, I love it so much ’cause I can see somebody now turning on their camera, and then just delivering their pitch. And then playing it back and be like, was that any good? Like would I buy from myself right now, like if I rewatch my video? Am I pumped up and ready to go? I love this. And it’s underrated, people don’t practice in our industry. You say role playing and people get uncomfortable immediately. Like they don’t wanna do it. They don’t wanna be called out. They don’t wanna feel uncomfortable and so they avoid it. And your point Dale is, if you avoid the uncomfortable things, you don’t get any better. And you kind of said it clear.[Dale] That’s right. And not only that, but I’m gonna ask you a question. Would you rather be embarrassed or be frustrated or feel like you did something wrong in front of a colleague where you lose $0, Or would you rather make that mistake with a borrower that could have been a three, four thousand dollar commission for you and you just blew it ’cause you don’t get a second chance with borrowers, you only get one chance to make a first impression, once it’s over, you’re done, you’re toast.[Alec] I love that so much because thre’s so much power in people who are willing to be vulnerable. Who are willing to step through that space and go, I’m willing to suck right now, I’m willing to be coached, I’m willing to make a mistake, I’m willing to be uncomfortable and if people are willing to get in that space, they can crush it. So I love your[Dale] I love number two, okay. I’m now ready for number three. I’m ready.[Dale] So number three is called the daily checkpoints and this is so essential. So here’s what we do, okay. Even if we’re a great manager and we get our day started right, and we get our people pumped up in the morning, and we get them to practice, crap happens all day long.[Alec] Somebody calls, the loan blows up.[Dale] Exactly. Stuff happens. That’s just all there is to it. So what I always taught my managers and I always did, was I said, look, we’re gonna have three checkpoints a day because I got you going in this direction, but I know that you’re gonna start to do this on me at some point in the day. Because I was a manager for too long, where I saw other managers that they’d say to their loan officers, “Here’s what I want you to accomplish today.” And then at 5:30. “So how’d it go?” “Ah, not so good.” And here comes all these excuses. So I used to have an 11, 2:30 and 5:30 check[Dale]in every day with my people. It was a one minute check[Dale]in and it was all I was checking in on. “How’s your sales going?” “How’s your sales going?” “Have you sold anything?” “Did you get anything?” “Are you staying on track for your goals today?” “Have you gotten off in that pipeline black hole again, where you’re not getting anything done and your attitude is gone?” If you are, I’m getting you back in the groove right now. It was so powerful and it changed the lives of my loan officers.[Alec] So I mean those, those big three right there, I mean, those are gonna turn into clips for sure. ‘Cause those are incredible nuggets and they’re not being done, like I know they’re not being done. Not only because, not that the people have bad intentions or they’re not great leaders, but they’re distracted, they’re busy, they have chaos around them, there’s COVID issues, there’s thousands of excuses. But the advice Dale is so universal that the great leaders are gonna show up that way and the ones that are struggling are literally disappeared, have disappeared right now. They’re not holding meetings. They’re not even holding[Dale] Like they might host a monthly Zoom maybe.[Dale] Yup.[Alec] Maybe they allow people to have their cameras off. They allow people to mail it in and they’re not connecting. And to your point it’s like, no, we’re gonna do this on steroids. We’re gonna have a morning connection FaceTime, we’re gonna have check in throughout the day and we’re gonna practice and role play. And I don’t think that would skyrocket any leader in our industry right now if they just practice those three.[Dale] And King Solomon was one of my favorite people that I try to model after. He was the wisest man that ever lived. Proverbs 27:17, he says “As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another.” There you go. Like, that’s one of the best bits of advice I’d ever heard in my lifetime. And I realized that as a sales person, as manager, I get soft without accountability. I need accountability, so do my people. If I can keep my people on track, you know what, the numbers are sensational.[Alec] Dale, I love it. Alright, so Dale let’s wrap here for a minute as we kind of bring down. issues are you facing with the loan originators right now that you’re kind of trying to lean into to help people navigate through this? What other nuggets that are coming in from that field here that can help leaders or our own realtors figure out how to get through this successfully?[Dale] I think the key is, first off, I want you to remember one important thing in this market we’re in right now. And that is that your partners, your real estate partners which are a vital part of your business, have been disenchanted over the last four months with most of their lenders. And there’s never been a greater opportunity that I’ve seen to prospect and get those realtors you wanted to work with for a long time than right now. This is the time to do it. So, what happens in these times is because we’re so busy, we do almost zero prospecting. It’s we’re just trying to keep our head above water and again, I know a lot of people are gonna watch this and go, “But Dale, I don’t have time for that.” I’m like, no, you’re just not managing your time properly. You’ve got to take your day you’ve got to time block for the time, for the things that you know you need to get done that are critical to your business. And then you gotta do what we call flex block for the two or three hours of stuff that’s going to happen.[Alec] Flex block.[Dale] Didn’t know it’s gonna happen.[Alec] I love flex block. I knew exactly what you mean when you said that but let me give you the excuse. Let me throw the excuse to you, ready?[Dale] Yeah. Sure.[Alec] But Dale, I have my capacity. My loans are taking too long to close, I’m scared to go get a new relationship with a realtor and then I get a deal from him and I can’t do my normal, 22 day close because my turn times are too long.[Dale] Yup, so the answer to that is make sure you get good realtors and educate them well from the start. Set the priorities right from the start. The biggest thing that we do for realtors is not buy him lunches or even close their loans for him, it’s actually educating them on how to get good buyers. When you do that and you educate them on how to bring you better customers that you can close faster, everybody wins. The realtor wins, the loan officer wins, the lender wins and the consumer wins. And that’s the way you need to do the business.[Alec] I love it Dale. Okay, words of wisdom. Final thoughts. Dale I’d love for you to share a couple of things that are going through your mind. As you’re looking at this industry, you’re looking at the current state of it, you’re looking at all the wonderful leaders and mortgage pros that you’ve coached there that you’ve known for probably a long time too in this space. What do you share with them here to help them get through this and fly through it and prepare for the future?[Dale] Well, I think number one is just remember that right now, the mortgage industry is the darling of the economy. We are the glue holding the economy together. We’ve never been in a better position in our entire careers to really win people over and really show them what great people we are. So that’s number one. Number two, just remind yourself constantly how blessed we are to be in this industry. Like I wake up every morning and I pinch myself. I look out this window at this cabin I’m like, that never would have happened without the mortgage industry.That just never would have happened. And the last thing is, give back.[Alec] Yeah.[Dale] You know, I always talk about this. Like if you’re gonna be successful, don’t hoard it, give it back. We started an organization many years ago, I think in 2006, called Mortgage Professionals Providing Hope, that is not for profit charity that we’ve run for all those years. And a hundred percent of the money we take in we just give it out. We give it away. We house homeless people in the U.S. We housed over 200 families last year, we build orphanages, we build schools, we do things with it because I’ve learned if I’m gonna be blessed enough to be in this business and be successful, I’m gonna be a blessing to others, too. I think it’s so important if you remember those three things, that we’re in a great business, we are absolutely blessed and give back. And then the last thing I would say, and we already talked about this, stay balanced. Just stay balanced because you’re of no use if you’re burnt out. You’re of no use if your life’s falling apart around you personally, but you’re making a ton of money professionally. Nobody cares about that. Focus on balance with these other things and you’ll just crush it in this business.[Alec] Also say that you got me thinking on Dale is, now is a great time to inspire, motivate and bring in the next generation.[Dale] It is. I love that.[Alec] Now you’re talking about giving back and that’s exactly where my head went and I love it and I think it’s right. Like now is some of the time for you and our senior leaders to bring in the next generation and mentor those kids and teach them the game and share with them the opportunity that’s here. And I think there’s an unbelievable time right now where there is volume to sustain it, there’s leads to sustain it. You can bring these people in and help them swim and I think that’s another truly incredible way you can give back and change someone’s life.[Dale] I love that Alec. That is such great advice. And, you know, I managed for 11 and a half years and my hiring policy was people out of the industry. I never had a single experienced mortgage loan officer one time. I trained them up from the ground up and I hired a lot of college kids and gave them a career. And many of those are running mortgage companies today and making incredible amounts of money and doing very very well. We wanna pass that torch off to that next generation and give them the opportunity to continue keep this business. This industry that we cherish so much to continue to keep it strong going forward.[Alec] Well now Dale, I have to ask this question then because I even though we’re kind of wrapping up and hitting the end here, but I gotta ask it. So, what do you look for in somebody when you hire them? If you’re hiring out of the industry, you’re not looking for experience?[Dale] Yeah.[Alec] Cause they’re just kids out of college or coming from Nordstrom or whatever. What do you look for when you hire somebody?[Dale] Well, here’s the key, hire personalities not resumes ’cause resumes are a pack of lies, that’s number one.[Alec] Well come on, so you saying that the resume with their proficient Microsoft Excel skills isn’t real?[Dale] Look, I’m gonna give the leaders out there the best tip you’ll ever get for interviewing and finding talent. And here’s the tip. Quit interviewing people. Here’s all I want you to do. Ask them one question. Alec, if I were interviewing you today, here would be my question. Alec, take me from birth to today and tell me every reason why I should hire you. That’s how I used to interview people. I would let you either hire yourself or hang yourself. It was all in your case and I would learn about you. I would learn…[Alec] Yes you would.[Dale] Your successes, I’d learn about your personality, I’d learn about your family and I’d see how you interact and communicate. I get stars doing that.[Alec] I love it. Throw the resume away and just ask them to tell you why they should hire you from birth to now. Dale, this has been an absolute pleasure to get[Dale] Friends, I want to share this with you. First of all, if you’re watching this in the future, I love it so much. Please hit me up with a #bypassed. I love when I get a little notification that somebody in the future passed to hang out with us and watch this stuff just brings me tons of joy. Second, Dale you’re all over the internet. You’re all over social media. Everyone should pay attention to this guy and go follow Dale right now. Like go and engage with what he’s doing on social, ’cause you’re dropping tons, so much great information for people and you’re pushing the industry forward. You’re a great guy for people to have in their social sphere, in my opinion. So guys find this guy online and engage. Dale any closing thoughts, comments? My friend, this has been really fun.[Dale] No, I’ll just close with this. My whole business and my whole career has been built around one thing. It’s called the others first mindset. And you see it on everything that I do. It’s placed off my life first. Philippians 2:3[Dale]4 says, “Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in all things with humility, value others above yourself looking out for their interests not your own.” That to me is the game. That’s the game of life. That’s the game of the mortgage industry. If we do that, we’re gonna not only do well, but we’re going to feel great about what we did and Alec, I just want to tell you, it’s been such an honor to be with you. And I’m so thankful that you asked me. And thank you for the opportunity.[Alec] Oh Dale, you’re the man. Ladies and gentlemen, we’re wrapping up today. If this brought you value, give me a share. Give me a #bypassed. Spread the love. I appreciate you guys and I’ll see you all on the internet. Take care.