Phil Treadwell – The Power of the Podcast If you are worried about content, hear from Phil how much you can pull from one podcast and how easy it is to just hit record. 

Phil is a 16-year mortgage industry veteran and the Founder & Host the Mortgage Marketing Expert podcast, with a simple mission: to help mortgage professionals build their business and do mortgage marketing better. I interview top mortgage industry experts who share firsthand experience and advice that mortgage & real estate professionals can use to build a more effective and efficient business.

Episode Transcribe

-I’m really excited for our first one, The Power of Podcast with Phil Treadwell. Let’s bring him on right now. All right, friends and professionals, here we are with topic number one. And what better way to jump into this social media collab and the Power of Podcast with Mister Podcast himself, Phil Treadwell. Now, this guy’s been running a podcast for over two years, dramatically changed his whole career, the trajectory of his path by putting his word out for everybody to connect with and engage. And so let’s talk about the Power of Podcast with Phil Treadmill.- Woo intros bro, intros.- Nice dude.- What do you know about intros?- I’m right in the background dancing to this Intro music. I’m like this is good stuff.- Well dude, Phil, thank you for being here today. Thank you for talking about this topic that I know you’re super passionate about. And I have to tell you before we start, you’re a major inspiration to me in my podcast. Just the fact that you were willing to, you were the first one I got exposed to in mortgage.- I appreciate that man. That’s awesome.- So let’s talk about your podcast dude, but let’s set it up. How long you’ve been doing this game? What’s it like?- Well mortgage game, 16 years. Podcast game a little over two. I mean, technically I started the podcast a couple of months before the podcast officially launched, but you know it was one of those things I’ve been wanting to do for quite a while, and like all great mortgage professionals, I’m a procrastinator and I waited and I bought all the equipment and the microphone, and then I did nothing with it for like a year. And so I decided one day, I had a really bad bout with pneumonia and I’ve had pneumonia a few times. I’ve always had some asthma and allergy symptoms and my mortality kind of flashed before my eyes, as I get older, I realize that hey, you know we only got a short time on this rock to do what we wanna do and not to go morbid but at the same time, I’m like hey why haven’t executed some of these things, and I was sitting on my couch on a Sunday night, and I thought “You know what? I’m just gonna do it. I’m gonna do a podcast,” and I started inviting some of the biggest people in the industry, people that I knew, people that I didn’t know and by the next morning, I had three podcast recordings later that week, and then I realized you know what? I want to do this podcast but I’m not really sure how to do it. And so I called a friend of mine and told him, I said, “Dude you’ve got a podcast. It’s like out on Apple, it’s on all these different things and bro like let’s be honest, you didn’t do this, like who helped you? Come on man.” And so he gave me his production team and we were off and running. And so launched with five episodes on the first part of June in 2018 and went to mastermind promoted it everywhere, started collaborating with other podcasters and the rest is history.- Dude, well I mean the rest is history. I mean it’s still it’s current life.- Right for sure.- You’re still living in this space. So I mean let’s just quickly, you mentioned insecurity, as you mentioned like I don’t know if I should do this or how to do this and you mentioned procrastination. A lot of people have been dealing with that in their own life, and so let’s just kind of dive into some results for a second and give some people some hope into like, is this worth it? What happened to your career, to you, when you just finally jumped off?- Man it’s been all positive. So first of all, let’s start with the procrastination insecurity and some of those barriers to entry that a lot of people have. You just have to go do it. There’s no quick fix. There’s no solution. The solution is to take action and that’s really what happened is before I even knew how to do the podcast, I started booking interviews and what happens is if you subscribe to that ready fire aim mentality, a lot more gets done. And so at the end of the day that’s really what I did and then from that point what happened was I’ve started collaborating with some of the industry’s best influencers, experts, industry Titans that came on the podcast because my sole purpose was to help people build their business and do mortgage marketing better. Anybody that’s listened to the podcast, here’s that mission in the beginning and so what we did is we were just trying to add value and content and so by collaborating with these people, I got to know what they knew. I got to share it with other people. I got exposed to a lot of concepts and people that I wouldn’t before and then through that, my business group. Podcast downloads grew; social media followers grew; income grew. It all grew because I subscribed to ready fire aim, and I didn’t, some people all the time, you can’t have paralysis by analysis. Everybody wants to have their setup and they want to know how gonna do it in the scripts.- Hold on, hold on let’s talk about your first setup dude.- Please.- What was it, like tell everybody– You mean, what is it ’cause we still have the same first setup. We got a right here it’s a blue Yeti. It’s the old school OG silver one. Yeah that’s a black one right there. I bought this a year before I started the podcast so 2017 bought a $100 microphone. I still have the same $40 Logitech webcam right here.- Yeah- Yep. You see what happens is if I go too high def and you see what I really look like, you’re gonna understand why I have a radio faced into the podcast and not like this whole video thing that you’re just rocking out of the park by the way. And so I mean at the end of the day, my first setup was about a $150 worth of equipment. I found a podcast hosting platform that was like 15 bucks a month and then everything else was because I didn’t want to take the time to learn how to edit, and I paid someone else to do it. So I mean again my setup was minimal and I still use it to this day.- Well see I love that dude because it’s just telling people dude just jump off the edge like, it’s just jump off the edge. It’s clearly worth it and we have a LinkedIn question here on this about solo style podcasts okay, which I love and I don’t know why I LinkedIn is throwing up LinkedIn User 1.0, but share with your thoughts on solo style podcasts.- Yeah you run an outline on what’s going on shared flow, as it goes, yeah, so I don’t do a lot of solo podcasts. I typically do an interview style. However, through industry syndicate, my partner Dustin Brown and a lot of other people do solo podcasts. Ones that I listen to and ones that I know that are most effective like Alec said you just talk. Now you may want to have some bullet points or some ideas of hey over the next half hour, I want to cover these concepts but if you try to make it scripted, it’s going to sound scripted and let’s be honest nobody wants to listen to that.- Nobody wants scripted.- At the end of the day you need to have an idea of what you want to talk about but you need to do it by telling stories right? A good friend of mine Rene Rodriguez has amplified, and he talks about frame message and tie down. That’s what a good story is, you wanna frame it up and tell people why they should care. You wanna cover your message and then bring it home with a call to action or with a challenge or if why did you listen to all this to begin with and if you have a couple of concepts, and you’ll tell stories that illustrate those points, you’ll have a lot of people who will listen and at the end of the day the reason memories are important is because you don’t have to memorize your own memories. So if you’ll just tell stories and talk about what you know and share, people will listen because you have something to say.- So Phil, did you ever think that starting the podcast two years ago would take you where you’re at today?- Absolutely not.- Yeah you didn’t see it either ’cause you know, I saw you sitting up there podcasting with GaryVee and I was like the most jealous like just sitting back like and like you know so two years ago to nothing to sitting down with GaryVee.- Yeah, yeah. So at the end of the day I started it specifically because I wanted to give people something to see when they googled me or looked me up on social media, because as a regional, I recruit and hire, I network, I like people, I love this industry. I want to move it forward and a podcast was a way for me to accomplish three things. One get exposure into the industry that I wanted to create credibility with. I wanted to add value and information to the people who was my audience and the third thing was I wanted to do content in a way that was passive, because I don’t watch a lot of long-form YouTube videos, and so podcasting you can get people engaged longer, and you can do it at the gym, you can do it while you’re at work, you can do in the car and that’s what I wanted. As a busy professional, that’s how I consume content. I wanted to create an outlet that did those same things.- So I want to hit something you said, because I don’t want people to miss this. You know what Phil’s doing is creating human connection at its core right? And so it’s framed up in mortgage ’cause that’s his space but I want to share a side thought and let Phil jump on it and go deeper because he’ll know people like this. I have a loan rep that works with us up in Seattle who started doing the podcast ’cause he’s starting to listen but his podcast is not about the mortgage industry.- Right.- His podcast is about adult men’s baseball leagues and these people that play baseball leagues competitively as adult males and are into it, like deep into it not just in watching it, but in playing it and so he started this thing called the Comebacker, and I’m like, “Well how much business are you getting from this?” And he’s like, “All of its now coming from this.” Because they know he does mortgages, like he doesn’t need to be like sponsored by me, the mortgage guy. It’s just amazing what it does and you’ve been living this.- Yeah, so personal branding I think people miss this a lot is about the person not the brand. And so many people want to create a shtick or a website or a logo and call that their personal brand when really what they need to be promoting in their content is themselves and just like this guy did with the podcast with the Comebacker, I’ve have a loan officer that created a podcast because he and his family to do a lot of ministries. They do a lot of nonprofits. They adopt kids and so he created a podcast in his community that does nothing but highlights other nonprofits, and charities and ministries in the area and again people know he’s a loan officer. You don’t have to go out and amplify that fact but he’s getting to get into circles and talk to people that he didn’t think that he would and so that’s really what this whole thing is about. With me my audience was other mortgage professionals, people I wanted to network with, people that I wanted to potentially recruit and hire and that’s the formula you have to choose. Who is your audience? You have to decide what type of message you want to give that audience and then number three, you choose the best medium to deliver that message to that audience. For me it was podcast because other busy mortgage professionals may not have time to sitting around and watch a 30 minute video but most of them do have time and are capable of listening to a 30 minute podcast. And so you know then it was a matter of just a little bit of hack and culture. I bring huge people on who had something to say you offer you know thousands of dollars a month is what their coaching costs or their platform and we get ’em for 30-45 minutes for free to ask any question, I didn’t care if nobody listened. I was learning all kinds of crazy stuff.- I like this again dude. The fact that you just asked people of credibility to come on, like who’s Phil Treadwell? And you’re like come on my podcast and they said yes, because I mean people want to talk about themselves and you’re giving them a platform to talk about themselves. You don’t even have to do the talking.- You don’t and that’s the cool part about it is most of them initially, I would never forget Todd Bookspan. He’s a good buddy of my now. When I reached out to Todd ’cause I had seen him at GaryVee he was there with a group of like 10 people and he was like, “Who are you? Why are you asking me on?” Whatever and I let him know, listen I’m just starting a podcast about mortgage professionals for mortgage professionals. I want to bring people on to offer content. We’re not monetizing this. I’m just trying to add value to the industry and those first 10 or 12 conversations were they realized, there was no hack as far as trying to get something for nothing. I wanted to amplify them add their value to my audience. I was gonna get to learn something and at the end of the day, once I had those first 5 or 10 guests on and had credibility, I was able to continue to get bigger and bigger guests and then now it’s you know a lot of people will answer my email or social media message because we’ve had you know the GaryVees and the Ryan Serhants and the Steve Sims and some of these people even outside of the industry that have come on, and so it was just a matter of asking. I learned that from 4-Hour Workweek with Tim Ferriss. Pick up the phone and ask and you’ll be shocked what happens, people like what do I need to say? What is my script? No call and say, “Hey here’s what I’m doing. I think you can add value. Here’s the type of value I can add for you. Are you interested?” And you’ll be shocked about how many people will say yes.- I mean it takes courage. It takes courage to do that but as you’re hearing from Phil directly guys, it’s gonna surprise you. Leslie I hope we answered your question. I think that Phil nailed it. Do what you’re passionate about. Connect to things you’re passionate about. You can see Phil’s passion about driving the industry forward, the mortgage industry, but trust me if you’re not connected into your passion, It’s not gonna land. Comment by Julian. By the way we’re on LinkedIn, Facebook and YouTube and in a second you’re gonna see either myself or producer Mikey drop all of Phil’s social connection places. So where you can subscribe to this podcast, where you can find them online, his YouTube channel that’s gonna come across about all of them but this is a great point and personal branding is about the person not the brand, just driving it home Phil. So let’s do this. Someone’s gonna start a podcast dude. They are gonna follow it up now. They heard you. They’re like oh my god, changed his career, changed his life. I gotta get in there you know you can do audio only podcast like how you started Phil ’cause you know you’re joking about Face for Radio– Radio face I’m tell ya’, yeah.- But that’s actually powerful because some people were like I don’t want to be on video and I’m yelling at ’em to be on video all day.- For all of those people that don’t want to listen to Alec listen to me, like it works. We got yin and yang going on here.- So if they want to sort of podcast and they’re coming to you for consultation, what are you gonna tell them?- Yeah so again I go through that three steps, who’s your audience? What type of message you’re trying to deliver? What’s the best medium because sometimes podcast isn’t the right medium. The same way people, “I want to do Facebook Ads.” Facebook Ads may not be the best medium for what it is you’re trying to do. So I try to want to make sure that podcasting is what they want to do. The second like Leslie was talking about is what subject matter, what are you gonna talk about? I agree with Alec. It needs to be something that you’re excited about, that you’re passionate about. I know it’s crazy but I am very passionate about the mortgage industry. I am a young guy. I, you know 16, years in I learned from Gen Xers and Baby Boomers, but I’m 38. I’m kind of one of the original Millennials and so I kind of bridged that gap between the old school and new school and I’m passionate about moving this industry forward. Hanging onto our long-term you know, the long-standing success principles and applying them in a millennial world. And I think you need to be passionate about that whatever that subject matter is. The very first podcast I ever listened to was called Basic Brewing Radio. I’ll give ’em a shoutout. They’re a home brewing podcast that was near where I was and they’re national all over the country, because I was in the process of opening up a craft beer brewery. And so I loved beer. I wanted to learn and that’s my first exposure to podcasting was home brewing. I’ve listened to podcasts of all kinds of subject matters and that’s what you have to do. Find something that you’re interested in, bring people on who want to talk about it, have a microphone going and go. So it’s very simple as far as find a good host. I mean there’s Libsyn and Buzzsprout and SoundUp and there’s all kinds of great places that you can put that audio recording and they blast it out to all the places that we listen to podcasts, but it’s as simple as grabbing a microphone, plugging into your laptop, having a conversation or having a conversation with yourself and putting that up for people to listen to and then market it a little bit on social media, do some videos like Alec was talking about the process of a podcast is not difficult. There are so many great resources out there. You can google it. You can message me, you can message Alec. All of these people and all these resources are out there for you. You just have to make the decision that you want to do it and that you’re gonna do it consistently and persistently over time. I don’t know if persistently is a word but we’re going to use it. Consistence and persistence over time is how that you’re gonna have success with this.- Dude I was joking with somebody Phil. They’re like I don’t know how to do a podcast. I’m like “You know how to do Zoom” and they’re like yeah. I’m like you see the record button at the bottom? Yeah, you just did a podcast , like you just did podcast.- You joke. What people don’t know is that, a lot of people know, but I don’t think I mentioned enough is every single one of my podcast recordings from day one has been recorded through Zoom, even the ones that are live right? So that’s how my first podcast producer taught me how to do it, because when you record in Zoom, as we all now know, it gives you an audio file and a video file.- You’re done.- It splits it off, so that audio file I send it to an editor. For a little bit of money they you know create a little intro and outro with some cool music. They put those bumpers on there and we upload it and that’s it. Even when I’m live and people laugh at me, but you know hey it’s a poor man’s podcast. I’m gonna roll with it. I’ll have people live. I’ll open up my laptop put the webcam on top. I’ll hit record in Zoom and record me and that person right next to each other. I know there’s all kinds of more techie ways to do it, but I didn’t know how to do it. I was a mortgage professional right? I had a microphone, I had a camera, I had a laptop and I did the thing, and so I mean we’ve had tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of downloads and guests all over the place because we used a little bitty mic, a little bitty webcam, we pushed record and that’s all you have to do. We didn’t do anything special. We just did it consistently over time.- Man I love that message so much. So many people need to hear that that are in their space, whether it’s mortgage or so anything in sales, anything in sales we want to build community, I’ve got a buddy who does hardware components for computers you know transistors and blah blah blah and international distribution and he started a podcast and all of a sudden these guys at billion-dollar companies are like can I be a guest? And he says, there’s no one else in his space like contributing to the conversation, all of them were audiences.- Well and I now get at least one a day, if not two a day, people that reach out that want to be guests on the podcast. Some are a great fit and some aren’t because again my mission and the whole point of the podcast is when mortgage professionals listen that they’re hearing something of value that can help them build their business or do mortgage marketing better and some of the topics may not be as sexy as others right? That doesn’t mean that there’s not value there and sometimes I’ll throw on those episodes that a lot of people even my, you know, my own wife she’ll listen to me and help me out was like, “Well I mean that was you know an okay episode or whatever” and I’m like the people need to hear it. And so you kind of get to that place where you’re sharing information, whether it’s popular or not because your point is to do that, but be excited about it. I learn so much new stuff by having conversations with people and we all do it at events, the difference is they put a microphone in front of mine.- So I got a question here from a LinkedIn user. It’s fun, it’s gotta be the same person because everyone else on LinkedIn I’m getting their names but what’s your take in group discussion style podcasts? In your opinion are Millennials consuming this type of podcast content?- I think Millennials are consuming all types of podcast content first of all. And second of all, I love group style discussions, especially if you have a topic that you can just kind of like throw in the middle of them and let them go. That organic type of conversation, the authenticity that comes along with it is super powerful. I think there’s plenty of podcasts out there that are very scripted, that are well produced and there’s nothing wrong with that but I think something that people have related to our podcast from the beginning is, we don’t edit out every um and uh. We don’t go through and ask super scripted questions. Now there’s maybe some questions that we make sure and want to ask or if you listen to my podcast, I go through the same process of giving someone a background so they can frame-up hey here’s my experience, so here’s why what I’m telling you is going to be relevant, but I love group style podcasts. I love having more than one person on there, because enthusiasm breeds enthusiasm and so I’m not typically this enthusiastic and excited on camera, but I’m feeding off of Alec, and we’re talking about something that I really really like and so the more people you have, especially if they’re also equally excited and passionate about the topic that you’re going to have, man I think that that’s gold, and I think a lot of people will listen.- And I want to head to another thing you said and just see if you’ll go deeper on it for everybody. Man there’s so much to talk about. There’s so much content and there’s so many things and sometimes you know as a personal example, when I was doing that stupid 100 videos challenge, I had a video that I was, I woke up that day to post it out of Dropbox and I was like this is garbage. I like looked at I like watched it again, I’m like this is total garbage, but I didn’t have time to do another video. So I just posted it and sure enough later that day, I got an email from somebody who was like I really needed to hear this today. And I was sitting down there thinking this is garbage. No one cares about this. This is a stupid thing. How have you experienced that in the content you put out?- Yeah so when I first got started before the podcast, I actually started an Instagram page called Mortgage Marketing Expert and the whole point was to do a mortgage marketing tip of the day and I did that because as is, my team and my wife heard me coaching and helping other mortgage professionals. I was recruiting people or whatnot I would have these little one-liners that I would say. Like you know it just kind of came out you know personal branding is about the person, not the brand. It’s things that I think about and I say repetitively and so she started writing them down, and I put them out as a mortgage marketing tip of the day.- I love it.- Ironically the podcast was a byproduct of after about a 100 days, I started running out of stuff to say, and so I wanted to bring people on and steal their quotes and make those the new mortgage tips because I didn’t want to be redundant but the point of what you’re saying is the tips that I thought were gonna be awesome and were gonna get a lot of engagement and a lot of shares and a lot of likes, kind of fell flat and the ones I’m like I mean it’s okay, I’m gonna post one today those are the ones, the same thing, there were people like, that’s what I really needed to hear, and I realized that you can’t prejudge the content on the front end because either a podcast episode, a video, a piece of content that I’m not sure that I don’t know if it’s really any good or not, sometimes those are the ones that perform the best, but the end of the day, you have to keep hitting record. You have to keep hitting submit post, whatever euphemism you want to use, ’cause if you prejudge it at the end of the day, you’re robbing someone of something that they may need just because you didn’t like it, and so put it all out there and see what happens. I have to echo that man. For everybody listening now and in the future, just stop judging yourself so harshly dude. You’re your biggest critic not that, the world is way more accepting than you think, like everyone’s like “Oh I’m gonna sound stupid. I’m gonna be judged” and I’m like no you’re not. You’re doing that to yourself and this is you know Phil’s just sharing openly about his experience through this and the connection is created. And stop judging yourself man.- The enemy of great is perfect and everyone that tries to be perfect that tries to have the right saying that tries to produce it that has the right background like all these different things, you’re robbing yourself of doing great things, putting out great content, really accomplishing something because of that perfection. If you look at the statistics, there’s a very very small percentage difference in great that’s pretty easily attainable if you work hard and this perfection that’s unattainable, you really don’t get that much lift between the two. So focus on making the mistakes ’cause I know Alec will say this because I will too. Every really impactful thing that’s ever happened to me or that I’ve learned has been coming through a mistake that I’ve made or a failure that I’ve had or learning through someone else’s failure. And I say that all the time is you know you taking your experience and failures and imparting that into someone else is the very definition of wisdom, and so you know you can’t have great things happen without failures is the point. So don’t worry about making mistakes. Just go do a bunch of stuff, figure out what works, figure out what doesn’t work and the formula becomes very very clear.- So guys we’ve got about seven minutes left on The Power Of Podcast before we’re going in deep diving on Instagram. So this is your chance to really dry out your own personal questions and ask Phil what’s really going on. I think it’s self-evident you know, okay let me ask you this Phil, should everyone have a podcast?- I don’t think everyone should have a podcast. I think everybody that wants to have a podcast should. Podcasting is still wide open. I’m getting ready to post a blog post that talks about the things I’ve learned over the first two years and the very first point that I make in there is there’s still room for everyone. We’re not at critical mass where there’s not a lot of podcasts and the cool thing about podcasting and podcasters is we’re not mutually exclusive. We’re actually each other’s business development right? If someone that’s not been exposed to podcasts comes and listened to my podcast, chances are they’re gonna go subscribe to three or four or five others and vice versa. So we want to lift each other up. We want to help each other, so if you’re wanting to do a podcast, one of my first recommendation’s reach out to other podcasters. And so yes go out there and do it. We have I think the number is close to 100 million people now listens to podcasts on a monthly basis, but there’s still like half of the country that still has never even heard a podcast before. And I want to throw out a couple of real stats real quick because I think it’s extremely important. The average podcast episode is 37 to 40 minutes long and 93% of people listen to most or all of an episode that they begin. Only 7% of people listen to just the beginning or less than half and a couple of stats on that the reason that’s important is because a podcast listener is 45% more likely to have an income of $250,000 or more. You should hear target market and then the other part of that is that 70% of podcast listeners say that they’ve become aware of a product or service specifically because of a podcast episode, and that’s super important because when we’re talking about unfolding content and we’re talking about really creating ideas and unfolding plots and whatnot, you can’t do that in the first 10 seconds of a video but you can do that in the first five minutes of a podcast and so man I really, really encourage people if you’ve got a cool idea go do it. Be committed to it. Don’t do it for three months. I think it’s Lois House that says if you’re not committed to putting out a podcast episode consistently for two years, don’t even start. And I agree with him. I will say you don’t have to do it every single week but you need to do it consistently but yeah I think it’s a long-term play that people need to jump on board.- So let’s ask this and try to get this out in like a lightening round here. So let’s talk about momentum because you just made a comment that I think might scare people, which is you’re not willing to do it for two years, don’t do it and everyone’s like, “Aaah, it’s too much commitment.” And my personal experience on that is I was gonna do one podcast a month in 2020, that was my goal, that’s 12 podcasts.- Yeah.- And then all of a sudden now, I’m doing one a week. And I’m booked out through like for next 60 days and I was like holy crap, like the momentum is, it just rolled on me, and I’m like I think if you put yourself out there, you’d be surprised how it all connects.- For sure.- But then let’s talk, did you take on long-form content? Like this is long form term content, a podcast, but what does that do for you in terms of creating like as a pillar content for you? How does that help?- That was a softball. That was a great queue up right there. Podcast in my opinion is the best way to create long-form content. Example if I use Zoom, if Alec and I were on a Zoom call right now and I’m recording both audio and video, we’re gonna have a 30 to 45 minute conversation, and now what happens is you can use the audio for a podcast, so you have audio content. You can shorten those into smaller clips and do it on Alexa flash briefings on the Amazon device. You can take those and create audiogram graphics. You can take some of the quotes and create quote picks. You can transcribe it and create a blog. You can take two or three minute videos and create highlighted videos on YouTube. You now have a pillar content and long-form content that you can break up into micro content to put across any social media platform anywhere that you’re putting content out period. So my point is that you can have one 30 or 45 minute conversation, a week, a month however often you want to do it. I don’t want to scare people with that. I just want to make sure people don’t wait it and some will do three podcast episodes and cross my fingers for results, because there’s an element of a long term play here, but you could create a podcast even if it’s not officially a podcast you could have a conversation with someone and break that up into micro content, hundreds of different ways and now you don’t have to worry about what content do I create? What do I say? Go have a cool conversation with someone and break that up into a bunch of different pieces and now you have content to share all over the place.- Dude you’re the man.- You’re the man.- I’m so appreciative of this, like this 30 minute engagement time. I mean there’s so many comments here about like this is amazing and thank you and you know just your commitment to pushing the industry forward to having these conversations to sharing openly and honestly about like what gear you use, no secrets no hidden thing, no buy my ebook for $20 in the back, like no just that authentic nature is what’s crushing it dude. So I really appreciate you. Two minutes left; final comments from Phil Treadwell. What have you got?- Man you know effective marketing is the balance of trust and attention okay?- You wanna wrote that down.- What’s that?- Say it again, say it again.- Effective marketing is the balance of trust and attention and it’s something I say all the time so people are probably getting tired of me saying it, but I can light myself on fire or light Alec on fire and put it on TikTok and we’re gonna get all kinds of attention but we’ve not created any trust that people want to do business with us, but we have a lot of some of the most trusted mortgage professionals out there and real estate professionals that aren’t putting out content, that aren’t trying to build a brand and so they’re still not doing any business because people don’t know who they are. You have to balance the two. I will say to take it a step further that I think the future of production in our industry are built around technology, automation and access to data and I think that if you, you do a podcast and you create that micro content there’s all kinds of ways to automate it, but man at the same time, you know go out have fun with it. Do something that you’re going to every morning wake up and be like I’m excited to do this today. Don’t count the results. Look up six months a year later and you’ll be shocked at what’s happened.- Dude keep crushing it man. Thank you so much. All right, you’re out, you’re free brother.- Thanks man.- Appreciate you.- Have a good evening everybody.- Man, dive into the water team. Like how much more proof do you need? Dive into the waters. I don’t care where. But go all in on and have some fun with your career, with yourself, and take yourself more seriously. At the end of all that stuff is unbelievable opportunity if you’re on the playing space. I hope your I brought you value today. Please go find these wonderful human beings online, connect with them, all of them. See what they’re doing. Man I appreciate you all. Have a wonderful day and a wonderful week. Ill see you on the Internet.