Modern Lending Podcast | Barry Habib

Come hang with me and the man who is helping lead the Mortgage Industry with knowledge, information and accurate analysis of what's actually going on. In this episode we will be discussing his new book, Money in the Streets and you'll get the chance to get to know a little but more about what makes Barry...Barry!

Your snippet into this episode of the Modern Lending Podcast:

  • It not magic, it's magical...
  • Consistency and practice is key, you have to do the work.
  • Barry gives us his crystal ball insight into the market.
  • Never take no for an answer. Bring that magnetism by bringing positivity

Episode Transcribe

Alec Hanson:
Everybody we are alive. Happy Friday. I hope it's going good.

Every day feels like a Monday, but except for Friday.

I think that's the one day we get to actually realize we have a weekend ahead of us and I'm excited to get tackled and totally destroyed by my children. But today we're going to have a really fun conversation.
I'm bringing Barry Habib into the studio to rap about the market, the craziness, but most importantly to rap about his new book, Money in the Streets, which is amazing. And because look, I know we're so hyper-focused on COVID land right now and it's consuming our attention. It's consuming the country, but there is life after COVID and Barry's book is full of gems about that stuff. So I wanted to bring him on to talk about that.
If you don't know who Barry Habib is you're not paying attention. This guy, I just joked earlier and called him the modern day Renaissance man. I mean this guy's in music. This guy's in politics. This guy's in the economy. This guy's a mortgage industry thought leader and we're going to talk today about all the cool stuff and learnings he's had in his whole life, so let's bring on Barry and kick of this episode of Live Modern Lending podcast.
We're here with Barry Habib. I'm so stoked to hang with you today dude.

Barry Habib:
Hey man, I'm really happy to be here. Thanks man. Thanks for having me.

Alec Hanson:
Yeah, absolutely dude. Every time, we were joking before, every time someone brings you on for some kind of a live podcast or a show or something like that, everyone wants to know what's going on in mortgages, because you're the leading thought leader helping guide kind of conversations and influence politics and all the crazy stuff there. So before we dive into your book and the amazing stories and stuff in there, why don't we just talk a little bit about COVID, a little bit about the market, because I know when people have you and they're like, "Oh, I want to know," because it feels like we need updated information every second. It feels like things are changing so fast.

Barry Habib:
So my buddy, Mike Roizen, who runs the Cleveland Clinic, and he called me last night, he said, "Barry I have some scoop for you." So he's part of the research board of scientists and he also is very, very influential. He got Ohio opened and things like that, so he talks to the governor every day. But he said that there was a paper that a few of the scientist and his colleagues were reviewing and it appears that ultra violet light can be very, very helpful, because it just destroys the virus and not just this virus, think about it, other viruses as well, or future viruses, because we're worried about the next pandemic.
He was like, "Hey Barry, you can probably reopen Rock of Ages again." You put the ultra violet lights, they don't hurt you, and in 10 nanoseconds or 1/100th of one second, it immediately zaps and kills the virus if its on you, if you're exhaling it.
This is a real, real important step, because he even said, he says, "Well you don't even need a vaccine if you can do this, you just have to use this where this is." But you could pretty much eradicate it. You could put it in your office building, you could put it in your home, but it would have to be everywhere, so to speak, if you were entertaining guests. But in a theater you could have it where it's everywhere. In an office, you could have it everywhere in your office and it would be safe, even if somebody had it and they were shedding the virus, it would kill it before you can catch it.

Alec Hanson:
Dude. I mean, it's just lovely to hear that there's hope on the horizon. Sometimes we get so focused in on when is this going to end and hearing that is awesome.

Barry Habib:
There's really, there's so much hope. There's so much hope, not just on the medical front, but we're really blessed to be in this mortgage and real estate industry, and while real estate will take a little bit of a hit over the next year, that's to be understood. But what is the big thing is that longer term, there's just too much demand and not enough supply and every metric that we look at in real estate is really, really good. The pressure that's going to be put on household formations is, well, people talk about it jokingly, but you're cooped up now for a couple of months, either the divorce rate is going to go up, but that will lead to more household formations, or there's going to be birth rate that goes up.

Alec Hanson:
Yeah, and they're all going to be firstborns because those of us that have kids, we're like, "No more."

Barry Habib:
But you know what Alec, that type of thing though is what drives home ownership rates. If you're a 30-something, between ages of 30 and 39, so you're a classic millennial age group, you have no children, the home ownership is 38%. Just one child, the home ownership rate is 80%. Just think of the differential.

Alec Hanson:
It's massive. So what are you seeing right now in the mortgage space? You mentioned real estate going to take a hit? You're the two-time crystal ball winner, so what's coming at us in the future?

Barry Habib:
I think for 2020 we probably see ... Now, this depends, because the higher above you go median home price the softer the market starts to become, the lower price ranges will be more resilient. I think that we have very low vacancy rates going into this so that will help us be resilient. That's very different than where we were in 2009. People have equity in their homes. 65% home ownership rate, you have 34% of homes are owned free and clear. Lot of cushion there.
Well, those 53 million homes remaining is 124 million households, 80-and-a-half million are owned. The 53 million that have a mortgage, those households the average LTD is 53, again.

Alec Hanson:
Yeah, so this is crazy. That's a real statistic. I've been sharing with everybody that can hear, there's more equity in American real estate than ever in the history of our country. That's a silver lining, especially for people that are in dire straights. They at least could sell and they could take that equity and kind of try to navigate through this. I mean, it's a terrible silver lining if they're forced to sell through hardship, but it's better than nothing.

Barry Habib:
Yeah. Then the people listening to this call to do a cash-out refinance for them and help them, so there's a lot that we can do to help through this situation. When you take a look at those who have that amount of equity, which is the bulk of people in the housing market right now, it's a lot of money for move-out. That's a lot of money for cash-outs.
What do people want during this? I think that the more people I talk to, they'd like more space and more distance. They're two different things, so space is interior space. I've got a small apartment, I want a home. I've got condo, I'd like a single family. Maybe I want a little bit more space so we don't make each other crazy in here.
Then the other thing is they want more distance, so instead of being on top of each other in apartments, they'd like to have a little more spread and a little more distance. I think that these will bode well for your sprawl from urban to suburb to the next ring which is call exurb, so those are all going to ... Then you get rural, but you will see a tremendous demand for home ownership. All the metrics that's out there right now are just so positive for housing, so while we'll see maybe a 1-2% hit this year, we think it comes back with over 5% pricing gains next year and it remains relatively strong throughout.
Now, the big thing is about the economy and about the job market, we're estimating that the unemployment rate right now is 19.7%. That's live in real time. That's our numbers. You add another 3.2% due to the fact that there are people receiving PPP money, their companies, and keeping people on payroll, if it weren't for that those people would be off payroll and in the unemployment ranks. We think the unemployment rate, without PPP, would be about 22% roughly, so it's big numbers.
The Great Recession was 10.3%. You go to 1982 recession, it was 10.8%, and before that you'd have to go back to the Great Depression, where it reached 24% so we're not that far off those numbers. If there's a comeback, the comeback is going to be somewhat muted.
I look at everything. I look at OpenTable. I start to look [crosstalk 00:07:39]. The amount of reservations that are coming back. Naples, Florida, leading the nation in a comeback. Even though Naples, Florida is leading the nation in comeback, they're down 65%. That's leading the nation. So we have some obstacles to overcome.
Even if we do 90%, get 90% back, many businesses can't survive with a 10% loss of revenue, so what I'm saying is I'm hopeful, I'm optimistic, but I'm saying there's going to be a little bit of a lump ride. Housing should be resilient. Gold should be resilient. Be a little careful about the stock market right now. I did a call with David Rosenberg yesterday. We did look at history. The big down move this year in the stock market, a retracement. That's a typical Fibonacci retracement. You can go to 50%. You can go to 62%, so here we are, we're at 62% and now it's struggling.
Now look, I could just be just giving you this warning. I don't know. Nobody knows [crosstalk 00:08:28]-

Alec Hanson:
Yeah, we get it.

Barry Habib:
But if you take a look at the Great Recession, exact same thing happened. Eerily similar. Then it really went down. Everybody thought it was over. If you look at the 2000 dot-com bubble, exactly same thing happened. If you look at t the Great Depression, exact same thing happened. We had the big collapse, 60% retracement, you had the big down loop.
Now, I'm not trying to scare anybody, all I'm saying is please be careful. Please be careful. Just don't think that this is all in the rearview mirror because what starts to happen is you get the initial shock, the crash. Then you get this recovery, the feds coming to the rescue, "Okay. It's going to be okay," and then here's the realization of, "How does our economy really get back on track? How do restaurants survive? How do airlines survive?"
All these businesses, clothing stores, do you really want to touch the merchandise? Do you know what I'm saying? It's going to be challenging. It's going to be challenging. Now, I know eventually we'll get back, but there will be a period that we'll need to get back.

Alec Hanson:
What's the crystal ball say? When's the timing? I read an article this morning that said Q3 was going to start the process, the climb-back. I'm curious for your insights.

Barry Habib:
That's a relative statement, so yes. Starting the climb back. Well, Naples, Florida is starting the climb back of reservations, but you're still down 65%. So I agree with saying that we start the climb back. I don't think we get anywhere close to seeing this recover because listen, you know what? I'd love to just share a quick chart with you if I can. I don't know. Do we have time [crosstalk 00:09:56] chart or no?

Alec Hanson:
Email it to me and I'll get it up on the screen in a couple of seconds or-

Barry Habib:
I will. I'm going to email it to you right now.

Alec Hanson:
Awesome. And by the way, while you're doing that, Barry, because I have to make an announcement, so send that over but we got about 50 people across the platform checking in right now and joining us.
First of all, Jenny put a comment up there that said, "Thank you for always being a hope bearer," which you are. And you give so much, you give so much. We even, right before this whole Live, you were trying to get lunch in because you're going back-to-back and sharing information. I know we want to pivot and start talking about your book, and so for every single person watching right now, about 50 of you, if you hit the share button and, by the way, if you're on YouTube you got to get over to LinkedIn or Facebook, if you hit the share button right now so we can expose Barry's book to more people, I'm going to buy every single person that hits the share button a copy of your book, Barry, Money in the Street because here's the deal.
I keep wanting to ask, how can we help you? Obviously, at loanDepot and across the country, we're huge supporters of the Nbs Highway. We love your platform, but I'm going to buy every single person that hits the share button a copy of your book and send it over to you guys so that right now the rest of the ecosystem and our friends can see and hear about why you wrote the book, what's inside it. Because, like I said, I am a huge fan of people who tell great messages through stories. I feel like those land.
I got a chance to look at your book and read a bunch of it and I'm 99% done, I skipped around a little bit, and it's powerful. So I want to share that. I want to give everyone a chance to share and I want to give everybody a chance to get a copy of this book in their hands because it's worth it and you did a great job, Barry, so I'm [crosstalk 00:11:30]-

Barry Habib:
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That's unbelievably kind of you, so thank you. I'm very humbled. I really am. When I wrote the book ... I had in mind to write a book for a long time. Everybody would say, "Well, why don't you write a book? Why don't you write a book?" And so many people have told me, Meghan right here in my office she would be prod me, "When are you writing a book?" But a lot of people had asked me to write a book and I'd thought about it, but I didn't want to do a book about mortgages. I just wasn't passionate about writing about mortgages. And by the way, it's a great subject to write about, right? I mean, it's [crosstalk 00:12:03]-

Alec Hanson:
But it's still mortgages. I feel you deeply there. Not curing cancer.

Barry Habib:
But I want to, as you said, people like stories, people listen to stories, so there's a way to tell stories. Now, there are stories that affected me, but it's not about me it's more through me. It's just things that people could relate to, so that I wrote Money in the Streets.
How did that come about? The title came about because every immigrant that's watching this, or people that have immigrant family members, or maybe you know someone who came to the United States. My parents did. When they did, they heard stories about the United States being, "America's such a rich country there's money in the streets. All you have to do is pick it up," and it's a story that they told me. They told me this all because I was a kid growing up and it was kind of funny, but it was also sad.
When I started to realize that the opportunities are truly everywhere, there is opportunity everywhere. There's opportunities right now that if we could just learn how to see them, so many people are missing them that it could be life changing in the way we help others. A lot of this has to be about helping others because, Alec, look what you do. You give so much because that gives you fulfillment.

Alec Hanson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Barry Habib:
It's one thing to have goals and achievement, and that's important, and there's been a lot of people that have had so much goal-oriented success that have had hard times in life being happy. There's people that have had bad things that they've done to themselves, even though they've achieved all this amazing success. We've seen so many stories about that. You say, "Well, they've got everything. Why would they do that? Why would they end their life? Why would they hurt themself? Why would they become substance abusers? They've got everything. Why?"
And it comes down to fulfillment, so I think that if you are focused on goal-oriented success I think it's great and I think you should be, but you have to marry that with fulfillment and so much fulfillment comes from helping others. That's really, really what it's all about. So, as people listen to you and all the great information and dialogue, what we really want to do is we don't want to just consume it, we want to consume it so that we can learn it, we can teach it.
The best way to learn, by the way, is teaching. You practice, you rehearse it, and then help others, put that out there and that really is what does it for you. I mean, that's what gives you the two married together is when you have fulfillment along with achievement, that's a really good recipe right there.

Alec Hanson:
You're laying in the foundation of what I took away from your book. I mean, chapter after chapter is about learning into kindness, leaning into help others, being an authentic human, being a authentic communicator, a connector of people. It's just told again, and again and again in here, but you're also quite vulnerable in this book.

Barry Habib:
Yeah [crosstalk 00:14:56]-

Alec Hanson:
I'm finding it very powerful. I find that lessons land when you're vulnerable and you really share some things in here that I never knew about you.

Barry Habib:
Well, yeah. There's a lot of things that have happened to me. There's a lot of things that I screwed up on too. I mean, certainly I'm not perfect.

Alec Hanson:
By the way, that was one of my favorite chapters. I always joke for people, especially with the stupid videos and we're trying to get people to get out and get digitally connected. I'm like, "Your number one piece of content is going to be your blooper reel because it's the most authentic."
Then your chapter, it was right in the beginning, Let Hardship Teach You.

Barry Habib:
Yes, yes.

Alec Hanson:
By the way, did you have a favorite chapter. Do you have a favorite story that stood out for you that maybe you could share for people that are [crosstalk 00:15:39].

Barry Habib:
There's a lot of them. There's a lot of them and if I could share a story, I'll share a quick story just because [crosstalk 00:15:46]-

Alec Hanson:
That's good. Good. Good.

Barry Habib:
... out of them. I think it's chapter 11 where I want people to understand, and really this is a blueprint book that will help you ... If you're having a great time it'll help you maximize and take it to the next level. If you're having a little bit of a tough time, we all do, I have, you guys have. No, I'm sure we will, right? How to better get through that?
Then what it really can do is help you see opportunities and not be intimidated. One of the things that can happen to us is if you're watching this and you see somebody's done such huge volume levels, or such big success in your market, you can almost become intimidated. And I'll just going to share a quick story with you about that.
I've always been somebody who's been a fan of magic. Heck, I produce Criss Angel's Mind Freak in Vegas, I've always loved magic. But before I was lucky enough to be able to produce this, and believe me as you'll read in the book, I came from extraordinarily modest beginnings. My parents were really poor. I was very, very poor growing up, made fun of because I was so poor because kids could be cruel and because clothing was not great and certainly didn't have any means or resources, so I get what it's like. That's why I'm so empathetic about it.
There's a lot of lessons throughout the book that are coming that to me now, the ones where I taught my kids that. For example, everybody knows Dan and my daughter, Nicole. Many people know too I've got two other wonderful boys, but Dan and Nicole were younger I had gotten divorced and parents like to spoil their kids with their divorce. It's just natural and I've fallen into the same mistakes, okay? So maybe we overcompensate that way and I would give my kids some nice things because I was pretty successful in the mortgage business at that time.
Well, as young kids, my son, Dan, as a young boy, he's a kid. He's seven-eight years old. I heard him saying that, "Oh, wow. They don't have this. We have that," or whatever and kind of like almost making fun. And I said, "Dan, if you say that, that's kind of like you're making fun of your dad because your dad was that poor person," and I could just see it on his face like, "Oh!" And it just changed his perspective. My daughter, Nicole who had overheard the conversation and so there's really important moments in life where you have to plant seeds when the ground is very, very fertile.
Getting back to the story that I wanted to share with you where it seems like-

Alec Hanson:
Hey, by the way, on the magic thing. How did you fall in love with magic?

Barry Habib:
I don't know. I was always been amazed by it. I've always wanted to learn it and I was never any good at doing it.

Alec Hanson:
I bought a magic kit when I was in elementary school and I would bring the magic tricks to school. You could tell I clearly didn't have many friends. I would try to do the magic tricks to everyone at school, so I have a similar love. I love it. It's so good.

Barry Habib:
Well, when I was younger I always liked it, but now there's a couple of go-to tricks I pull out at the dinner table sometimes for entertainment. Anyway, I was on CNBC regularly and Mark Haines, rest his soul, he was a friend and he was one of the hosts. We were friends. In advance of that I had gone to see David Copperfield and it was at the State Street Theater in New Jersey, only about 20 minutes from where I live.
I go and man, this show was amazing. One trick after another and I was like, "I don't have no clue how he did that. How'd he do that? How'd he do that?" And then at the end there was this amazing trick, last trick, the grand finale and he said ... I really wanted to know. That's the way my mind works, I need to know how [inaudible 00:19:30] work.

Alec Hanson:
That's the lure is trying to crack it.

Barry Habib:
Trying to figure out, right? When I was a little kid, even though I didn't have much for toys, the few toys that I had I couldn't resist it. Sometimes I would break them because I wanted to take it apart, see how it worked, so I was terrible.
But anyway, so I had to know how these tricks go and the last trick he says, "Okay. I'm going to bring a group of you up on stage and make you disappear. Like, "Shit man, I got to do that. [crosstalk 00:19:58]." So I'm all pumped up, "What do you got to do?" So he's got these balls that he throws into ... Now, there was 3000 people in the theater. He was going to pick 12 and then he says, "I'm going to pick four others, so there's going to be 16 balls." I understand what the 16 meant, but, "Okay, I'm in."
He throws these balls and he plays muci. Now, if the ball comes near you and the music's still playing, you got to get rid of it. This one ball came near me and I just couldn't. Another one and this other ball is coming at me and I could sense it's got to be near the end because the music's been playing now for a good 30-40 seconds, right?

Alec Hanson:
Yeah.

Barry Habib:
So I lunge for this thing. Now, I think by accident I might have knocked a couple of people over, but-

Alec Hanson:
Oh, no. [inaudible 00:20:40] I'm just picturing you old lady, just like diving over.

Barry Habib:
So I was really into it, man. I wanted this thing. I catch the ball. I'm one of the people that catch the ball. 3000 people. The way my brain works, I like math, I'm actually pretty good at math. I just have this quirky thing. I'm able to do really good math in my head so, "3000 people. [inaudible 00:21:00] people. One out of 187 chance. I can do this."
Anyway, I get up and I'm walking on stage and David Copperfield looks at me and he says, "Okay, so you're going to stand right there in the corner." He's putting other people in the chairs. Four people sit in the corners, 12 people sit in the chairs, I'm like, "W-T-F," here. [inaudible 00:21:23] He says, "Yup. You're our witnesses." I could have been his witness in my seat, okay, but now I'm [inaudible 00:21:30].
So bro, I watched him do this trick and make 12 people disappear. They put the curtain on. I see the lights going, all of a sudden they're fricking gone. I see them up in the balcony somewhere later on, I'm like ... I was pissed. I would have been [inaudible 00:21:47]. I was frustrated enough watching and can't figure it out from my seat, but now I'm this close away and I can't figure this thing out, okay?
So I'm like, "Dang," but I had a great time. I'm joking about ... I had a great time and it was wonderful. Next year he came back and Mark Haines, my buddy, he called me, "Hey, Barry. Hey, yeah. David Copperfield's show is pretty good." I say, "Yeah, I saw it last year. It's good, Mark." He's like, "You want to go?" I'm like, "Okay. Let's go."
So we go for a nice dinner, we go to the show and I figure they'll be a bunch of new tricks. Me, as a speaker, I always have new stuff thinking that the audience I want to play for, if it's in the same location, I want to give them new stuff. Not David Copperfield. It's exactly the same tricks, but I still couldn't figure it out.
So here we go all the way to the end, and it's a great show. Listen, I'm enjoying it, of course.

Alec Hanson:
Oh, he's a pro. Yeah. Of course.

Barry Habib:
Now the same trick with the balls.

Alec Hanson:
Oh, no.

Barry Habib:
In the back of my mind I'm thinking, "It's only one out of 187 chance. Could I do it again? Maybe." But I'm the eternal optimist. I'm like, "I can do it again. I can do it again," so balls come out, the music's playing and I'm like a man possessed. I'm like, "I really want this thing." And honest to God, I can't believe it, somehow, someway I willed, but I caught another ball. I catch another ball. You know what the chances of that are? It's almost astronomical how such a rare chance.

Alec Hanson:
Tell me you're not on the side again. There's no way you're a witness again.

Barry Habib:
Listen to this. I walk up and I'm walking up and there's David Copperfield, he looks me in the eye and he says, "You're going to stand here," I said, "Now I know the deal." I said, "Excuse me." This is in the middle of his show, okay? The show's going on, there's people that's walking around, "Excuse me? David, you made me stand in the corner last year. Can I please sit in one of the seats?" And he looks at me and says, "Are you a magician?" I said, "I'm in the mortgage business."

Alec Hanson:
So, yes?

Barry Habib:
He knew that I wasn't going to let up, so see? But that just goes to show, there's another lesson here. Don't just take no for an answer. Never take no for an answer if you believe in yourself, if you believe in what you're doing. Don't just accept it. Don't accept rejection. Where he said, "Okay," so now I sat in the seat and I got in there, they put the cover on and I know how the trick is done. I know everything about that trick.
The morale of the story is this, is that it's not magic, but it's magical. This is not some mystical thing. You know what it is? It's hard work, it's knowledge and it's practicing it doing it over, and over and over again. So when you watch somebody do something, big numbers that they're doing, great achievement that they're making, it's not magic, it's magical. But what you have to do is do those things. Put in the research. Get the knowledge. Put in the hard work and then rehearse that over, and over and over again and there's nothing, absolutely nothing that you can't do.

Alec Hanson:
I bring you on here to talk about your book and you just drop knowledge bombs on everybody listening. What a lovely segue to that story into ... See? This is what you do in your book. You tell us and incredible story and then you land it, you land it in such a authentic, real way that people can go, "I get it. That means something. I have some action I can do."
I want to ask you for another story, if it's okay?

Barry Habib:
Yeah.

Alec Hanson:
One of the chapters that stood out to me because I'm in the mental space right now of trying to get originators and people I care about, the local mortgage pro, back into the spotlight because we, as a human culture, have gone Internet first and not human being first. What I mean by that is in 2003 when I was driving around in my Civic to try to find a realtor, if you wanted to find out what homes were for sale you had to go talk to a local pro, a real estate professional, or you looked at the weekend open house sheets in the newspaper. It wasn't on the Internet. The MLS was locked down.
And you fast-forward and as an entire society we go Internet first. We don't as our friends any more, we ask Yelp. The local mortgage pro who is sitting behind a real estate agent waiting for a referral is getting hurt by this. One of the chapters you wrote was chapter seven: Amplify Your Message and Become Magnetic. It resonated so much with me and I'd love for you to unpack that chapter a little bit, what was going through your head when you wrote it because there's so many people that need to amplify their message right now.
The world has given them the tools. Everyone's got a phone, everyone's got a camera, everyone's on the Internet, but if you could just talk to that chapter a little bit and what you were thinking, and what you wrote there, and share your thoughts? It really spoke to me.

Barry Habib:
Well, you've been a great leader and teacher and you wrote a wonderful book about it, so this is exactly what your book is about which is to teach people in this environment. First of all, there's never been a better time because you literally have a captive audience, right, I mean, with the people staying home, so literally have a captive audience and people need to read your book so they can truly maximize that.
I love the term that you coined, which is called being a web-lebrity. I've used that and I've given you credit for it, and says, "There's a web-lebrity," so you really have to do that. You have a chance to do that today, so there's so much about this but it all begins with you doing the work because you can't get what you don't have. If you gain the knowledge and you have the knowledge then you have so much to give, so that's why doing the work up-front's important.
Listen, if you want to be magnetic, how is it that we're around people they just draw you to them? What makes somebody magnetic? And sometimes we, "I wish I was magnetic," and you can be. You are. You naturally are. Here's the thing, just when you come into contact with people make them feel better and smarter from being in your presence.
Just those two things. Make them feel better. What does it take to make somebody feel better? Give them a good optimistic viewpoint. There's always nice things that you could do or say. There's always a good side that you could look at. There's always promise towards the future that you could point to.
Now, these are things that make people feel better because we need that. We need that from each other. We help each other, right?

Alec Hanson:
We do.

Barry Habib:
None of us are on all the time. I have tough times too, man. It's nice when somebody kind of helps get me back on-track. The other thing is, make them feel smarter. But in order to make them feel smarter you have to have done the work because people will gravitate towards that, they'll want more of that and that's the definition of magnetism is being drawn to something, being drawn to you.
Focus on those magnetic qualities that you already have. All you have to do is sharpen them, but in order to do that the nice thing is you have to do the work. I say it's the nice thing because if you didn't have to work for things then everybody could do it. You don't get rewarded for your efforts and that's what's so far.
I mentioned about having some hard times. I mean, I start my day, every day, with literally out loud ... I know it sounds corny, but out loud I talk about, to myself, I typically do it after a cup of coffee. I tend to function a little better after coffee. All the things that I am so blessed, and lucky and grateful for. I start my day by focusing on those things and really thinking about how I get to do what I'm doing. I don't have to, I get to. That's the focus is I get to do these things. I get to have a busy today. I get to help ... Sometimes I'm a little stressed, but boy, am I lucky I get to have that and all these people in my life, all these wonderful opportunities, all these wonderful things.
I look and I feel and I pray for people that don't have these things and wish good for them, but say, "Boy, how blessed am I?" All of us, if you're in the mortgage business right now, we might have heartburn over a product going away.

Alec Hanson:
Yeah. Or a longer term time than we want.

Barry Habib:
Yes. Some people out there, and a lot of them, their problem is how to make their family's hunger go away.

Alec Hanson:
You know what, Barry? I love this conversation and that statement because there's two things I think I'm just delighted by in our world today. Number one, that perspective, exactly what you're talking about. Perspective can lend so much confidence, and clarity and strength to your day. We're all dealing with a hardship. This is hard.
My wife didn't want to be a stay-at-home teacher. This is hard. And that's okay that it's hard, but we can really micro-focus on ourselves and get kind of stuck in that space. But when we open up and we realize that there's other people that are truly suffering, number, one, we have a chance to just get over our own little problems. But number two, we have the chance to be of service and get outside ourselves. That, to me, is the grit ... This is the second trend that I love is that marketing, the concept of marketing with bells and whistles, and catchphrases, and flashy logos and whatever it is, has absolutely eroded and true marketing now is to be in service to others.
That's true. They're almost combining, service to others and marketing are becoming the same thing when you do it without asking for an email address or some kind of catch at the end, but when you actually just go and be in service it's radical how business opportunity just starts to flow into you.

Barry Habib:
That's really the magic right there. I've been self-employed for a long time-

Alec Hanson:
You have.

Barry Habib:
... but I've been really fortunate to work with so many wonderful people. I've never had much turnover, hardly ever turnover, and it's kind of the same thing with any of the businesses that I've run, whether it be Rock of Ages. So the personnel's always been spoiled and the customer's always been spoiled, but you know what really makes the difference? Is that do something when there is no obligation to do it. Nobody here's ever asked me for an increase.
It's always done before they've even asked. It's always done without people asking because there's something about whether it's your customer, whether it's a family member, whether it's a friend, whether it's an employer, employee, co-worker, if you do something for someone before they even ask about it, what does that say? Think about all the things it says.
It says, "I'm thinking of you. I'm worried about you. I'm anticipating things that you might be benefited from or things that would help you," and if you can do that and people know that you've got their back, there's bonds that are made there that anything that goes to the fulfillment part of our life that we started with, that's just as important as the achievement part of our life.
That's the stuff that just makes you feel good. You do good and you feel good, that goes a long way because even with all that we're going to fact obstacles, we're going to get pissed off, we're going to get aggravated, we're going to get frustrated, we're going to have tough days, tough weeks, whatever it is. Let's hope that those are few, but that helps you get through those.

Alec Hanson:
Mikey, how many shares did we get so far? Can you check the platforms real quick? Nice, all right. We've got, it looks like 10 shares, 10 books being bought. We've got about another five-ten minutes here, Barry. There's 60 people watching across the platform, so we're going to give it one more chance. Share this thing, let people go out and experience this conversation and what's really going on in your book, Money in the Streets. I'm going to buy a copy for every single person that shares, so you go ahead and share right now, throw a comment in there.
The wonderful thing about going live, and people forget this, is that it's not about this moment. Now, this moment's amazing and I'm really enjoying it. I know there's people watching and who are enjoying it. But these videos live on and so the people that get to watch it later get to experience the same thing we're experiencing now live and it's a wonderful, wonderful gift. And so I want to give the chance for everyone to see this and get a copy of Barry's book.
Barry, here's what I normally ask this and I'd love to ask it of you. We have a lot of originators that we all support, that we love, our mortgage originators. In this time of chaos, and uncertainty, and ups and downs, and changes and all the stuff that's going on, what advice would you give them to navigate through this? What encouragement would you give them?

Barry Habib:
You're embarking on an incredible journey ahead of you where let's just do some math here. Again, I like math. First of all, there's more households being [inaudible 00:34:32] than there are builders putting up homes. There is a shortage of homes. That's going to be very supportive of prices, so 2020's going to be a rocky year. You'll probably see real estate values drop a little bit, 2% or so, depending. The higher up homes will struggle more.
But 2021 should start a very strong rebound and whether it's 2021 ... That's what I meant to say in case I said '22. 2021 should a strong rebound. Maybe it's 2022, but people buy homes for the long-term, so that's an opportunity and you're going to be in great shape.
But the refinance aspect, rates are going to be low for a long time. I don't want to go into all the reasons why, but they will be low for a long time. What we have to know is that while it's easy to feel heartburn over, "I can't do non-QM," or this, don't focus on that.
I'm going to give you the quick rundown. Right now there's $4.8 trillion of loans that are available to be refinanced. Doesn't even count purchases.

Alec Hanson:
Doesn't even count purchases.

Barry Habib:
Right. This year the entire refinance market, the entire is $1.3 trillion and most of us are very busy, companies are having record months. This is a very busy time and purchases are down and we're still busy with $1.3 trillion refinances. How are you going to do all that volume? There's more rain than there is buckets. Don't focus on what you can't control. Don't do that. Just go after the abundance of transactions that are there. This is what you want.
This is what's out there for you right now. You have this unbelievable opportunity ahead of you and you have to fight fear and you have to gain knowledge. If you want, I could close with one of those two chapter stories in the book because-

Alec Hanson:
I'm in. I was actually going to ask, so this is perfect. You've read my mind.

Barry Habib:
What would you prefer? Would you prefer the knowledge aspect of it or the fighting fear aspect of it?

Alec Hanson:
Fighting fear. Fighting fear all day long, dude.

Barry Habib:
It's only natural to be afraid of things. I mean, we should all admit that we're afraid of things. Bravery isn't not being afraid. Bravery is being afraid and still moving ahead, okay? That's being brave. I'm just like that. I'm afraid to do stuff, but I just kind of try and push myself and step it up and suck it down and go for it. I'm not always successful either, okay, but I do try.
When I was a kid, I was about 20-years-old, so I used to love outdoors and do stuff, went camping. Me and two really close friends of mine, really good buddies of mine, Craig and David, childhood friends. We go camping with these three great dates that we had, so we had three lovely, beautiful girls that we'd take on a date.
Listen, I'm young, want to make a nice impression, so this and that. So we're camping and we're hiking and we come across this beautiful waterfall that we're on top of. It is, I don't know, it's about 50 feet high. For many people they may even not be afraid of that, I'm fricking terrified, just so you know.

Alec Hanson:
It's high. 50 feet is high.

Barry Habib:
Alec, I also am not super-comfortable with heights. I'll admit that.

Alec Hanson:
Got it.

Barry Habib:
So, my buddies, David and Craig, they're like, "Oh, yeah." These guys, growing up with them was an adventure because they're crazy. Crazy. They'd bring up crazy in me too. They would go right to the edge and they would look like, "Yeah, it's not so bad," this and that. I couldn't even get to the edge because I was very ginger about it. I was like, "Yeah. Yeah. "

Alec Hanson:
There it is. Yeah, there it is.

Barry Habib:
Then they start the conversation, "What would it be like to jump off of it?"

Alec Hanson:
Oh, yeah. I knew it.

Barry Habib:
And I'm like, "Oh, yeah. It'd probably be crazy, but listen. Let's get going, right? We should probably be moving along, shouldn't we?" So no, not David. David was a fricking lunatic. Meanwhile, the three girls, they're all like, "Oh, yeah. That would be great."

Alec Hanson:
Oh, yeah. Pushing you on.

Barry Habib:
So David, lunatic, he just throws his body off before I could even say, "Don't do it," he throws his body off. He said, "The water was like wow, this is great. It's great. It's great," and now Craig's like, "Should I go?" I said, "Craig, you're really not thinking about that, right? You're not going to do this, are you?" Before I get the words out of mouth Craig throws himself off there and now the two of them are in the water high-fiving and, "Barry. Barry."
I take a look over and the three girls are looking at me like, "Well?" I was so scared, Alec. I was really scared, but I'm not going to look like a wimp in front of these girls [crosstalk 00:39:08]. I'm like, "I know this is a bad idea," but I just muster up enough courage to do it. But I was so fricking scared to do I didn't do the flying leap like these guys did, I just kind of, "Da, da, da, da," and then I look down and I realize that you got to get a little further out to go for the water, so I'm trying to get body out here.
I hit the water and I was like, "Man, that hurt so bad," because the water hit so hard and I wasn't exactly going in perfectly. But you know what? When I came to the surface my buddies hugged me and it felt great. It was so wonderful and I'm really glad I pushed myself to do it.
In life, when we let fear take over, I would have felt miserable if I didn't do that. I would have regretted it to this day. In life, I think it's not the things we do much that we regret, it the things that we don't do and the opportunities that we left on the table. When you have a chance to do something business-wise or have an opportunity whether maybe, "Should I do this campaign? Should I take a leap forward with this?"
Sometimes it's okay. You think about it at night and you say, "It's great," and then you wake up in the morning and it's like a different person starts talking to you. "Oh, no. You're not going to do that," and you talk yourself out of these things. Don't do that. Don't do that because when you're in these positions where you don't do something, you look back and you regret those. You regret those opportunities.
I'm not saying go crazy. I'm not saying jump off buildings and things like that, okay? But that was a little bit of a risk there, a little bit scary to do, but it wasn't really life endangerment, it was more fear. Overcoming our fears is something that we all have to do every day.

Alec Hanson:
Everybody, thank you for tuning in. Thank you for those that shared. Barry, we're going to end on that. Wonderful message, guys. Appreciate everything you do for our industry, Barry. Appreciate everything you do for the people around you and you're just a great man and I love this conversation today. Thank you. I look forward to many more in the future.
All right, everybody. This is Alec and Barry signing off. Have a wonderful weekend and-

Barry Habib:
Thanks, Alec.

Alec Hanson:
... a wonderful week next week. Take care.

Barry Habib:
Bye, everyone.


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