You want the secret pill? The magic equation? HERE IT IS! But don’t worry about everyone knowing it. Very few will actually do anything about it!

Here are the  main points while watching this LiveTime with Alec:

• What  headspace is in this industry.
• How you can earn it with anyone.
• Why headspace is important to you and your customer.
• Alec actually gives you the formula for this.

Episode Transcribe

What’s up everybody?

Happy Wednesday and the craziest market I’ve ever experienced.

It’s literally bananas and wow. I can not believe that we’re back in this market. I haven’t been in this market since 2010, 2008, after the post-crisis when the rates were just bananas. The market’s insane. I don’t know, we’re here together though. And that’s what’s important. I do have some thoughts and I do have some content I wanted to share today that was all queued up, but I’m also kind of going to go a little bit of a different direction as well, in the beginning of this.Thanks for joining me. We’re on Insta. What’s up everybody? First time on Instagram live, we’ll see how that goes. YouTube, Facebook, LinkedIn. And we’re going to talk about Headspace today and why that’s so important. Hey, what’s up Blake? The [inaudible 00:01:28] team. And hi Ivan. But I also really, really want to talk about perspective for a couple seconds.Look sometimes, in this insanity, it’s hard to close loans. And it’s frustrating because things are moving all around you and things don’t always make sense. Sometimes the companies that we work for respond in certain ways to the market, it’s not always in our control. Sometimes it can be frustrating and sometimes there’s fulfillment issues. Man, I remembered working … What’s up, David? I remember working at a very, very, very large bank, to remain nameless. And man, we were apping, in 2010, a hundred million dollars a month at my branch. And we did that for six months, and the whole time we were doing that, we only were funding 60% because of our capacity issues. It was causing so much frustration and stress that I really had to get everybody to focus back on perspective.Man, our life is good. Our life is amazing. Yes, there’s chaos in the world. There’s coronavirus scares, trips are being canceled, events are being canceled. It can all be really frustrating. But I want to encourage you guys a little bit that the world’s good. Your life is good. Things are good. If you’re watching this on Instagram, or on social media, it’s good. And take that for a second. And what I’ve always found that helps me, in these moments of stress and frustration, when there’s so much abundance and I can’t capture it all, is just to go serve other people. Figure out how to find somebody who’s less fortunate, who’s struggling, serve them. It will change your perspective. If you’re a leader, take your team out and serve some people. Trust me. It’s going to help you.But today, we’re talking about this, Headspace and when there is so much … The world is moving so fast around you, this is so important to stay focused on, and I’m literally going to give you the secret keys to reality here on how to dominate your space, dominate influence, grow tremendously. And you don’t have to worry about everybody knowing it. Hey, what’s up David? Thank you. You don’t have to about everybody knowing it because they’re not going to do anything about it. You can have all the secrets in the world, and rest assured, no one’s going to do anything about it.Let’s break it down. First of all, what is Headspace, when I say that word? What am I talking about? I’m talking about the fact … I’ve seen a lot of you guys posting rates are at all time low. Okay. Everyone seeing that, all of your customers are seeing that, everyone’s seeing that in the media, everywhere else. Why haven’t they called you? That’s a good question. The reason is because you don’t have Headspace with them. You don’t have that mind platform where when they’re thinking about a mortgage refinance, they think of you.I love this example, and I just want you to play with me right now … And you can throw it in the comments, it’d be fun to see everybody’s view on this. But if I said insurance, what company comes to your mind? Seriously, insurance. Tell me. I’m ready. I want to see a couple of you guys write in what you guys got when I say the word insurance, because … What’s up Rod and Nathan?When I say the word insurance, a lot of people immediately go to Geico. They go to Geico because Geico has funny commercials. And when you have funny commercials, they earn Headspace. They have the gecko and the camel, and all this funny stuff. And when you see that stuff, it burns into your mind and it creates Headspace. You and me, we don’t get to have multimillion dollar commercials on TV and radio, all the time, earning Headspace and trying to do all that fun stuff. But we have actually a better tool to do that, to grow your business. And I don’t care if you’re in mortgage, if you’re a gym owner, if you’re selling insurance, I don’t care what it is, this is the equation.First, going broad. You got to go broad and you got to go big on social media. You don’t really have a choice anymore. In order to get Headspace with people, you’ve got to be absolutely … Yeah, I’ve got Allstate over here. You’ve got to absolutely be going broad. I’m a big fan of Gary Vaynerchuk, for several reasons. Number one, he’s living his best life and anybody doing that, I’m like, dude, you live your best life. He’s so happy. It’s awesome. But the other reason I appreciate him is he’s literally laid out the playbook on how to create content at scale, to create influence on social media. He’s written the book, it’s downloadable, it’s free. And all you have to do is go check that out and understand how to define your brand and then just start creating content at scale. And you can create influence. Now, if the content sucks or if you’re boring, you can get better. And that’s really the game there.But going broad means having an aggressive, macro oriented, content scat strategy that allows you to be posting on a regular basis, through a variety of mediums, all of your messaging to reach your customer, right? This is not posting your company’s generic social media graphics. Sure, maybe throw a couple of those in every now and then, but I’m talking about posting about your brand, posting about your efficacy, your value proposition, sharing what you do on a macro scale and educating the customers that you’re trying to influence. That’s what’s going broad is.I’ll just say it and then you can deal with it, you need to go online every single day and post content. Every single day. If you don’t want to do that, you’re just not building influence very fast with the digital community. Someone else is, and that’s your threat and problem. Because if somebody else is doing that, and you’re not doing that, that means they’re outpacing you in that digital space. You have to post every day. That’s overwhelming. I know it’s overwhelming, but it’s also your opportunity. It’s your greatest opportunity to be in front of people. And don’t worry, I’ll throw a couple of pro tips out, they don’t care what you look and sound like, they only care what they look and sound like so get over your own insecurities, get over yourself, and get in front of people every day. And you will be blown away.First of all, they’re also not listening. Look, I’ve put out a ton of content, and I know for a fact, not every single person is just sitting there devouring all of it. There’s not enough time in the freaking day, but what they are doing is they’re being exposed to me, my brand, my messaging, and they’re hearing things. I’ve talked about Headspace six or seven times and for some of you, you’re like, “Oh, what is this Headspace thing?” Because it’s the first time I’ve ever heard about it. This is what going broad’s all about. And I do not care what business you’re in, or what you’re trying to accomplish, you’ve got to go broad, every day.Okay. That’s that’s secret tip number one. And just to hit it again, you’ll get better so don’t worry. Don’t stress like, “Oh no, every day, what am I going to talk about?” There’s a million things to talk about in this crazy world that are relevant to your business. You’ll figure it out.The next part is going deep. This is the one, two punch to the equation. I do not care if you put out incredible content on a daily basis, multiple times a day, I don’t care how great it is, how pretty the pictures are, if you do not go deep with human beings in your community, you’re screwed. Because you’re an ad at that point. You’re not a human, you’re an ad, even though it’s a pretty ad. I like your ad. What’s up Neil? Yeah. Oh my gosh. Unlimited topics. A hundred percent right. If you do not go deep and relational, you are an ad, and you are going to be bypassed.But let’s understand what it means to go deep. Okay. I’m going to use a couple of simple examples and then unpack a little bit how they can be extrapolated and use easily on a regular basis. Let’s take a past customer that you did a loan for, you did an amazing job for them. You took six months fixing their credit and therapizing them through the process, and explaining everything, and you give them a tremendous loan at the end of the day. And then you throw them in a CRM campaign and they get a generic piece of crap, drip campaign email from you until they die or block you. And that is the end of your relationship. But you’re posting every day. You’re posting every day and they’re seeing it, but you’re letting your relationship with them stagnate and dissipate because they’re not going to have a relationship with your content. They might be like, “Oh yeah, there’s Alec again. That’s awesome. He did my loan. He’s a great guy.” But every single day that I am not in a personal relationship with them, they’re falling further and further away from me.Stupid example, but powerful example, I have a realtor I’m connected with on social media. And a lot of you are connected to everybody on social media, it’s all good. What’s up? Easy 714, I love people’s handles on Instagram. Anyway, this realtor is connected to me and I see their content and I’m like, okay, they’re posting stuff, that’s cool. But we’re not connected. I don’t work with them. And as everyone knows, you have your birthdays on social media and you get pounded, right? Actually, I don’t like it because Facebook makes it a button, and LinkedIn’s a button, and it’s just so generic and [inaudible 00:11:07]. And even in the messaging app on LinkedIn, it gives you the three options to generically respond. And I’ve seen like, how long can I keep this person on by only responding with the generic like buttons? Because that’s hysterical. And I know they’re doing it back because they do the thumbs up and we’re relegating ourselves to this BS relationship. Don’t do it.This realtor, on my birthday, was the only person on my birthday, besides friends who send me personal text messages and all that great stuff, the only person on my birthday didn’t do the Facebook happy birthday stuff that is just annoying. He took the time to, in his car and I could tell because it’s in his car, turn the camera on and just say, “Hey Alec, I wanted to wish you happy birthday. I saw it was your on Facebook. I hope it’s a good day today. Take care.” That was it. Didn’t pitch me, didn’t say, “If you need a real estate partner, I can sell your house in two days.” Didn’t do any of that stuff. Just simply said, happy birthday on a video. Used my name so I know it’s not one he just keeps posting.That is what going deep is about. Yes, you can post content every single day on all of your mediums. I’m getting a request to be in your live video, no. Next time though, on Instagram. I’m just figuring it out dude, give me a second. It would give me a second. I’m going to just say this. I don’t know, you got to try new things. Okay. There you go. I don’t care how broad your strategy is and how amazing you are, if you’re not making personal connection with human beings, you’re not going to create the influence. Guys, that’s the game. There’s the equation. The magic equation. Post every single day, relevant, great content. And if you don’t know what that is, you’ll get better. But just play in the space, play in the space so you can get better. You can’t get better on the sidelines.And then from there you can never forget … And this is where I’m actually not very strong, I’m the first person to say it. I don’t have everything figured out, come on. But I will tell you, that going deep is the magic, because the more you can take your self out of your own head and go to where other people are and wish them a personalized happy birthday, check in on them, support them when they did something cool at work, make an authentic comment, engage people personally, send them a … Call somebody. I know, we never liked to call anybody, then do a text, do a video text. But if you can do both of these things, with your online community, you will absolutely change your entire business. The whole thing will change. Going broad and going deep is the only way I know to make a massive impact in your community.And I will tell you this, the reason why nobody’s going to do it is it’s all really hard. What I just explained is not hard to understand. Post every day, get better at it, create fun, amazing things. What’s up guys? Create fun, amazing content, learn with your content, and then go deep and be in a relationship with people. Actually talk to them. That’s what I’m talking about, guys. That’s the life. Does that make sense? Because if you just write it down, go broad, go deep, you’re going to dominate this influence game. Let me back up, when I say the influence game, let me just really be clear, if you’re a mortgage professional or a sales professional, I don’t care what business you’re in, don’t lie to me, your number one goal is to increase your opportunities, to get more at bats, to talk to more customers, to introduce more people to your platform and what you do as a professional. That’s it, that’s the game, right? That’s influence. That’s digital influence. That’s the game.There’s two ways to do it. You go abroad, you post all the time, you have really engaging content, you talk to people. And at the same time, you don’t forget to come down off your content cloud and into the dirt with the people and just tell them you care about them. Tell them you’re there with them. Tell them you’re thinking about them. Be in their life. Don’t live in the content cloud. That is a … Hey, what’s up? That is a terrible, terrible place to live because you’re not with the people and you become an advertisement.I’m trying to figure this out too guys, okay. I’m in the game with all of you. I hate people that just get up there as gurus and just say, “I’ve got it. Buy my ebook.” It’s not the game. But if we learn together, we can get better. And my learnings from going deep and going broad, and figuring out this digital game, is that’s the equation. If you want to earn Headspace, when somebody goes, “Man, I saw another thing about refinancing online. I saw another ad from Quicken on my Twitter feed. I guess they’re hunting me. They just blow me up.” Whatever it is, I see that mortgage ad, who am I calling? Who am I thinking of? Am I thinking of the major brands? If I am, that’s a threat to you, the local mortgage professional, which means you got to do something about it and stop waiting for someone on a white horse to ride in and save your ass. Stop waiting. It’s your life. It’s your business. It’s right there in front of you.It’s not complex. It’s just hard work. How often should you post? Every day. Why? Because people are checking their cell phone, and checking their Instagram, and checking their Facebook, five to seven times a day. Are you showing up? If you’re not showing up, you got no chance. And then, if you refuse to go deep and relational with people, you’re not going to win because they’re going to see you as an advertisement and you’re not going to win.Does this make sense? It makes sense to me. I’m still figuring it out though. We’ll see. I appreciate you guys hanging out with me, especially all of you on Instagram. That was fun. We’re trying Instagram. It’s up here, so if you see me looking up it’s because Instagram is there. But I appreciate everybody learning and figuring out how to play this Headspace game. Have a wonderful week. Don’t forget your perspective. If you’re frustrated, if you’re in a tough space and you’re having trouble living in abundance, go serve somebody less fortunate than you. Have a great day everybody.

Alec has Tammy Richards, COO of Loan Depot on the podcast to talk about the technological advances and the future set in automation for the the meticulous things in the industry and how you just have take it one step at a time.

Your snippet of this episode of Modern Lending Podcast:

• Technology is change but it also helps  find a way to get the deal done
• Problem solving is the ultimate goal
• What LoanDepot is doing to make things move smoother and quicker
• Automation is a one step at a time process

Episode Transcribe

Alec:What’s up Modern Lending podcasters.

Welcome back for episode four. 

I know I just called you Modern Lending podcasters, I love it, you’re in the club.

All right, this is going to be incredible. I’m very excited to bring on Tammy Richards, our Chief Operations Officer here at Loan Depot. She’s going to blow your mind. No joke, no exaggeration, there’s crazy stuff happening here and you’re going to experience it live with us on this podcast.I’m really excited to bring a behind scenes look and feel to what’s going on in technology across the mortgage ecosystem and here at Loan Depot. So stay tuned, you’re in for a wild ride with Tammy Richards, let’s go.All right everybody, here we are, Tammy Richards in the house. I am so excited to talk to you today because every time we get to hang out, I learn so many new things. And I’m trying to be a student of the game and the game’s changing and you’re leading a lot of the change. And so before we dive into it, I have so many fun questions and this is going to be a really cool 45 minutes to an hour, let me give you a chance to introduce yourself.Tammy:Okay.Alec:So for those of you listening and watching on YouTube, hello. So, Tammy is the Chief Operations Officer for Loan Depot, but share a little bit about your past, we worked together before.Tammy:We have.Alec:Which is just Twilight Zone for me because this is like we’re all back. Look, everyone out there listening knows the mortgage industry is small and it’s getting smaller, so Tammy give a little bit of your background, how’d you get sucked into the crazy mortgage world?Tammy:I think that we all get here somehow by accident.Alec:That’s probably true, everybody’s just are like, “I guess I’m here now forever.”Tammy:Yeah, you don’t grow up. At least back in the day you didn’t think about what am I going to be when I grow up, I want to be a mortgage banker. But I got in the business back in 1983 and my first position was being a loan secretary.Alec:That’s incredible. I don’t even know what that means.Tammy:I know, well it was before fax machines, before cellphones, we were like hand typing everything, mailing out verifications, credit reports had to be requested through messenger.Alec:So do you ever take a minute because if you look at what, and we’ll get into the future tech that you’re working on now, but do you ever like, I mean that’s crazy. Pre-fax machine into what you’re working on today, right? Like that’s two different worlds.Tammy:It is, it’s analog to digital.Alec:Analog to digital, that’s so cool. Okay, so you fell into the business, loan secretary which is amazing.Tammy:Loan secretary.Alec:What else have you done?Tammy:I’ve done everything. Processing, underwriting, closing, originating and even servicing, so all the way through. And it’s been fun, my favorite part is underwriting, I really like digging into loans.Alec:Really just problem solving?Tammy:I love it.Alec:Just figuring it out, yeah. Everything is unique and different.Tammy:Finding a way to get the deal done.Alec:Which is great, by the way thank you because it’s good for an operation to say that, find a way to get the deal done. Every salesperson is like, “Oh I like that, I like that a lot, tell me more of that.” Okay, so share with everybody, you’re coming up on your two year anniversary with Loan Depot, what are you overseeing, managing, handling at Loan Depot.Tammy:I have processing, underwriting and closing for all channels. I also have credit policy, credit risk and then appraisal, co-op, any back office staff function or any support staff functions. And then I’ve got the prototyping lab over at the Mello building, I’ve got enterprise innovation and the product team over in the tech building as well where I can help automate the process.Alec:So you have no shortage of responsibilities? There’s a lot on your plate.Tammy:I actually think it’s really fun. I walk around every day thinking that I somehow have the luckiest job in the United States of America. I really am grateful for my job, that I think it’s really fun, it is.Alec:Well, so let’s dive into it because obviously you’ve seen a lot in this industry and so what are you seeing today? What’s changing? What’s happening right now?Tammy:Well right now we’re actually catching up to the technology that’s been out there for a while.Alec:Well that’s an interesting comment because there’s been a lot of people that have recognized that post-crisis, the mortgage industry just froze. Innovation stopped, investment and technology stopped and now I like that comment of just catching up. So, what does that mean for mortgage tech and operations and all that stuff?Tammy:Well, I think what it means is that the consumer’s driving what we’re needing to do in order to be able to be relevant in our industry. Because the consumers are wanting to go on their phone or their computer where previously they would come face to face or call us or come some other way to the mortgage lender. And now anymore they’re able to search online for price, look for the best lender online and it really has come down to being able to work the way the consumer wants us to work with them. And many consumers are moving more and more towards wanting to work online.Alec:Yeah, and you look at all the other industries and all the other things we consume as humans from the Amazons and the Ubers and Netlixes and Disney Plus and all the stuff that we’re just consuming and then you’d have the mortgage process and it still feels pretty clunky compared to what other companies and industries have taken technology. And you’ve been, at least as long as I’ve been here, you’ve been a real pioneer in trying to push our industry forward. Meeting with Fannie and Freddie, writing White Papers, trying to figure out new things for appraisals. So, let’s talk, what are you most excited about that you’re working on right now?Tammy:My favorite thing that I’m working on right now is finding ways to give customer surety as close to the application as possible. I think that’s really what the customers are wanting, so utilizing data and other automations to be able to give the customer a seamless experience and take the pain out of the mortgage process. That is what I’m most excited about.Alec:Okay, so we have to unpack that because if you look at the mortgage process and if you’re listening and you’re not in mortgage, you’re going to get the full behind the scenes how the sausage is made process, but for us mortgage geeks, we live this every day. It’s a linear process and if you go back in time to when I originated in the early 2000s, it was a paper file and it had a left and a right side and I would stack it in the right stacking order with my cover letter and then I would hand it physically to processor and then it was in their drawer.Alec:And then when it got moved to the underwriter drawer, I could see it in line over there and the customer of course can’t see any of this stuff. And even today, even in our world today, a lot of customers still can’t see what’s going on. Most mortgage companies deliver a turn time and say it’ll back tomorrow sometime. So, when you say surety as fast as possible, I think this is probably a good time for you to unpack. The industry and a lot of people that have followed Loan Depot have seen the Mello Smartloan come out. There’s lots of social media, by the way it’s a very buzzy language around it, the Smartloan what does that mean and there’s been some articles and some PR around it.Alec:And even the concept of a digital mortgage has been thrown around the industry in tons of different ways, so maybe share your viewpoint on what a digital mortgage is and then maybe just share about how the Smartloan started and what it’s doing and where it’s going. Because that stuff people are going to get jazzed about.Tammy:It’s really fun, I know, I’m jazzed about it. So, on as far as what is a digital loan, I think if you were to ask a hundred people in the industry what a digital loan was and for them to write down a definition of a digital loan, you probably have a different definition from every single person.Alec:Totally. Even ask the customer what’s a digital, they’re like I don’t know.Tammy:So, is a digital loan a customer being able to do their application online? Is a digital loan a customer being able to digitally validate their income employment assets?Alec:Right, like day one certainty tools.Tammy:Yes. Is a digital loan a fully paperless loan?Alec:Oh, here you go.Tammy:Is a digital loan a loan that you’re able to close digitally and disclose and sign digitally as well?Alec:Yeah, right, because there’s paper at the signing table.Tammy:So, is it completely paperless a digital loan or what is a digital loan. A lot of people think it’s the online application and I think that that is just table stakes anymore, we have to have it. We have to have it in order to be able to serve the customers the way they want to be served, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that that’s a digital loan. I think that being able to use the data that you receive in order to be able to streamline your process frontend and backend and be able to deliver an electronic closing is a full end to end digital experience for the customer.Alec:Yeah, I mean when I see mortgage tech from my sales perspective, it seems like a lot of the frontend stuff is getting what I would call digitized. So, leveraging some day one certainty tools, we’re able to get a certain percentage of customers validated online through data. But then it seems like once that’s done and that loan crosses over to our fulfillment partners, especially when I talk to other companies, it seems to go back in time.Tammy:It goes down the analog path.Alec:It goes back in time, it’s like we did all this cool digital stuff and then all of a sudden I’m doing it the way I did in 1982.Tammy:It’s still that same thing that you were talking about where you had your file folder, left and right and you were hole punching and by the way, if your hole punches didn’t directly aligned, we were pulling that back out and restacking that and we all had our rubber thumbs as we’re flipping through the pages, right?Alec:The rubber thumbs and the rubber band ball.Tammy:Yes and Agaco fasteners, we had to have lot of Agaco fasteners. But really what we did with our LOS systems is we simulated that linear process and we really just have a simulated paper file flow format.Alec:So I’ve heard you say that before and it rocked me then and I’d love for everyone to hear that again. We in mortgage tech just took the paper process and recreated it with computers. We didn’t enhance it, we’re just like, “Well, we do it just this way so let’s make the computer do it this way.”Tammy:That’s right, exactly.Alec:That’s amazing, but that’s not innovative.Tammy:No, even our, if you look at our electronic file which is holding our paperless file, it’s still left side right side in the same stacking order as what we did with our paper.Alec:Okay, so how do we do this differently?Tammy:Right, so a lot of people have been going down a swim lane approach which is definitely an efficiency approach.Alec:And break that out, when you say swim lane, explain that.Tammy:So, a linear process would be the way that you described it with handing the loan from the originator to the processor to the underwriter, back to the processor, back to the underwriter, back to the processor, back to the underwriter, finally to the closer funder and getting the loan completed. That’s a linear process, really. Where a swim lane approach would mean like the originator could be pricing the loan while the processor’s ordering stuff, while the underwriter is making a decision while the closer’s setting up the loan for closing and all the people can be working simultaneously on the deal, that’s a swim lane.Tammy:That’s a swim lane approach where everybody can go in their own lane but at the same time sometimes, right? And then a simultaneous format that really is what the Mello Smartloan is, is it’s a loan that has intelligence and it’s really artificial intelligence, but it knows what it needs to be completed. And it reaches out for the docs and data in a simultaneous format, receives the docs and data, brings it back in, uses it with the artificial intelligence, so calculations to auto-clear any requirements on the loan and get the loan completed and get to a clear to close. And it could all be done at the time of application.Alec:So okay that was a lot, we’re going to unpack that. If everyone’s hitting rewind right now, they’re like, “Okay, hold on a second, I got to hear that in slow motion.” Because we’re just so chipped and we’re so used to our normal process. So, let’s unpack this again, I’ve heard you say this before and from a leadership perspective I think it’s really cool where you have continued to pioneer and preach we want clear to close for the customer as fast as day one. Time of application, clear to close. Which I hear a lot of people talking about like, “Hey, let’s shave one more day off our process.” And you’re like forget that.Tammy:Or they say we close on time, it’s like well you better.Alec:That’s doing your job.Tammy:If you’re in the industry, we should close on time, so that is not remarkable.Alec:Hey, look, I’m a millennial and I just want my participation trophy for closing on time. I want my little blue ribbon that says I swam down the lane.Tammy:That is definitely not what our consumers are asking for.Alec:Correct and you look at how we’re experiencing all of our lives, it’s like we want … there’s a great comedian on Netflix who was like, “I want Amazon yesterday.” Where it’s like just give me want before I even know what I want. I just want it delivered instantly and then in the mortgage it’s this whole crazy process. So let’s break down what you just said and explain it again for slow sales people like me.Tammy:I don’t think you’re a slow sales person.Alec:So, when did you start working on the Smartloan?Tammy:Well, I’ve been here at Loan Depot for two years and the day I came.Alec:So you showed up and you said let’s get on this journey?Tammy:Yes.Alec:Which is cool because it does take a long time to create change.Tammy:Because this is Anthony’s vision.Alec:I know.Tammy:Anthony Shay’s vision to be able to give the consumer the experience, a full home buying experience and what the way the consumer wants to be served. And so when I came, when I was recruited here, I really was attracted to the tech forward approach of Loan Depot but also Anthony Shay’s vision of being that one stop shop for home buying experience and serving the consumers the way they want to be served. So I’ve been in many sell centric organizations and we are a sales centric organization here at Loan Depot, very sales centric, but we are also very consumer centric. And we become even more sales centric by focusing on the consumer because the consumer-Alec:That’s exactly what I was going to say. You become sales centric today, modern sales is consumer centric mindset a thousand percent.Tammy:Which modern lending was something Anthony talked about as I was being recruited, being a consumer centric brand and being really a lifestyle choice for customers and how they want to be served and how they want their home buying needs met is really what we’re accomplishing with the Mello Smartloan. So, the day I came in I knew it was my responsibility as part of what Anthony Shay’s vision was to be able to help to create the Mello Smartloan.Alec:So what’s crazy is I’ll talk to loan consultants today that I’m recruiting or in our own company and I’ll ask, “How much of your day is spent, as a percentage, how much of your time is spent tracking down conditions? Gathering items, going back and forth with underwriting, waiting for underwriters to look at your file and then getting on a phone call with them.” And it’s a lot. A lot of loan officers say it’s like 70% of my time and the more productive loan officers are, the more time they have to spend in just file management.Alec:So, two years ago you had a vision, you came alongside Anthony, he brought you in to execute this vision and now fast forward 2020, it’s crazy and it’s landed. I mean, we’re here. So, you gave us the 10 second Smartloan example of it knows what it needs, it does all this fun stuff, but let’s go simplistically. I’m a loan officer and I take an application of my customer and let’s say I either get some data but I don’t get a lot of data or let’s say I get no data. I don’t use any day one certainty products, just because by the way I still have loan officers that send out, I’ve seen them, on the back of the card which it says like, “Please prepare me your two years tax returns, two years WTS2” I’m like, don’t do that, don’t get any of that stuff.Tammy:I used to do that when I was a loan officer, I had it on the back of my card.Alec:Back of the card. So, today though, now fast forward, what are you going to do or what’s the system going to do when I show up with my stack of paper, maybe a couple things digitally validated?Tammy:So the system, what we’ve done is we’ve been able to take the paper and convert it to data even if we don’t get the digital validations. Still, it’s a better consumer experience to press the button and get the data and it’s better quality, but if I were to get the paper, we are able to drag and drop the information into the system and then the system takes the data off of the docs and runs it through algorithms to be able to calculate the calculations we need to be able to auto clear conditions.Alec:So you’ve said auto clear conditions twice now and people are hearing this and just sounds like space magic dust.Tammy:I know.Alec:Because it’s like what do you mean auto clear. So, let’s go one step further, so I’m a customer and I walk in with my pay stubs, my W2s and I give them to my loan officer at Loan Depot, I upload them to the portal, what’s going to happen? What does the Smartloan do at that point?Tammy:The Smartloan takes the pay stubs and W2s.Alec:Let’s just use pay stubs.Tammy:Let’s say pay stubs?Alec:Yeah.Tammy:So it takes the pay stubs, it recognizes that’s a pay stub, it auto files the pay stub into your electronic file, it auto indexes it and indexes it as a pay stub. Where previously you’ve been able-Alec:It’s a human’s job previously.Tammy:Yeah, you had to be able to break out all the different documents and manually file and then type this is a pay stub for borrower one.Alec:Oh my god, yes, of course.Tammy:All of that is done by the system. But when it does that, it also takes the data off of the docs and uses artificial intelligence and machine learning along with a rules engine to be able to ingest the data and then come out with a result. And so it’s calculating the income and then if the income matches what the condition would be on the loan, it’s able to validate that information is correct and what’s needed in order to be able to complete the condition.Alec:How long does it take?Tammy:Seven seconds.Alec:Okay. So, I’m going to say it back in my dumb way. You’re saying that the Smartloan can take in a pay stub as an example, it can recognize that it’s a pay stub, it auto files it in the right spot in our system, it can lift the data points off of it and put those data points digitally into the system. And then it can effectively read it and if the data points, if it’s 40,000 and that’s the income and that’s what we need for the loan, it auto clears it, no human will look at that deal for that pay stub?Tammy:That’s right.Alec:Okay, so sounds crazy, sounds insane, sounds super fun, what happens if it doesn’t work? What happens if it can’t read it or it’s never seen it before or whatever?Tammy:Then it goes the normal boring manual way.Alec:Yeah, it goes back to a human.Tammy:Yeah. Obviously this doesn’t replace humans, I think about in 1995 when DU and LP were coming out.Alec:You’re going right where I was going to ask you the next question. So you’re predicting it, go ahead.Tammy:And everybody thought that, well, that’s the end of the underwriter, we’ve got DU now.Alec:Yup, who needs a human.Tammy:And it’s not true, I mean we still need the humans for risk management, for making sure that we’re meeting investor requirements. The computer doesn’t have its DE, it doesn’t have its [crosstalk 00:20:19]Alec:I love that by the way, I’ve heard you say that before, the computer doesn’t have its DE.Tammy:Right, it doesn’t.Alec:Of course.Tammy:Although DU does say ZFHA if it goes through scorecard with an accept, so that would be that chums number for the computer, so maybe it does have its DE as long it goes through total scorecard. But for conditional commitments, reviewing appraisals and all the processes that need to be done by VA, there’s a lot of things that still need to be completed by an underwriter and overall, the quality of the file is still the underwriter’s responsibility to make sure that everything meets investor requirements.Alec:And then what about like order outs, verifs? What does the tech do for that stuff?Tammy:So, we’re automating all of our order outs so that I can reach out and that’s why we talk about that simultaneous format. And I think of it as a circle with rays of the sun coming out and reaching out and receiving the docs and data and then bringing it back in, auto clearing conditions and then tasking anything that still needs to be reviewed. But when we’re auto ordering items, we’re ordering things like title, hazard, appraisal, flood or any third party service that needs to be ordered at time of application and auto ordering it, requesting the data and then taking the data to be used in our process to be able to see whether the data clears the information that’s needed to be able to validate that application.Alec:So my brain starts going crazy when we talk about this stuff and I love it because I love change. Change is opportunity and because a lot of people fear change and when you fear change you tend to resist all the stuff instead of embracing and then it tends to bypass you or whatever happens, it’s stressful. But when I see this I’m like, oh my gosh, my day’s going to free up. I mean, if I’m a loan officer and I’m hearing this I’m going my day’s going to free up. Because for a loan officer, one of our biggest frustrations is I submitted my file, I want an answer. I don’t want to wait around. I’m as impatient as my customer is and so you’re telling me in seven seconds for what percentage of stuff in your opinion?Tammy:Well, right now about 70% of the conditions can be read and calculated by the engine.Alec:That’s crazy. I think the industry isn’t ready. I think it’s going to shock some people. I can see a loan officer today going that can’t be true because you have to have a human look at stuff.Tammy:And there are still things that humans need to review obviously and there’s also a lot natural language that the computer doesn’t yet take in data format. And so layered risk, different complicated reviews definitely still need to be done by underwriters and underwriters still need to validate the total quality of the loan, but it is anymore, we’re delivering data to our investors and agencies.Alec:That is a good comment, so let’s talk about that. Because you’re still delivering the file to agencies and investors the way they want it, you’re just decisioning it differently.Tammy:Yes, we’re just taking the data from the direct data source versus something given to us by a customer or another party and we’re getting it straight from the closest to the real source of truth and bringing that data in and that is more pure data.Alec:Yeah, I was going to say, less opportunity for fraud or for something else to happen to it.Tammy:Absolutely, it’s a better quality transaction.Alec:So this is obviously really fun and exciting, what effect do you think it’s going to have on the industry? What about just on our company too, what effect is this going to have?Tammy:When I think about effect, I really think about how’s it going to change the customer experience because I really keep focusing back on what does our customer want. And Mello, which is our tech brand, is Greek for “about to be” and it’s really Anthony’s way of having us anticipate the consumer expectation even right before their wanting it. And so I think that this is something that we’ve anticipated that consumers want, I think they actually do want it now.Alec:I do too.Tammy:But what we’re wanting to do is take the guesswork out of the mortgage process by utilizing data to give surety to the customers at time of application. And so where we can we’re going to be ordering all of the third party services and being able to get to a clear the close as close to time of application as possible. And instead that’s where I think we need to flip the script in our industry to talking about clear to close and quickly can we get to clear to close with the correct data versus closing on time.Tammy:Because I think clear to close is really what a customer wants so that they don’t have a lot more surprises that are negative as they’re going through the mortgage process.Alec:I love that comment Tammy, I talk to so many originators and we do so many loans for great customers that at the end of the day, there are so many people advertising 10 day closes and I get a little visceral because I’m like does the customer even want that.Tammy:Right, are they going to pack up their family and their dog and all their belongings and move to a new place in 10 days? Probably not.Alec:I mean, if you’re saving a customer and a loan fell through, I get that, they want to close their late-Tammy:Or they’re competing with a cash offer sometimes.Alec:Yeah, they’re in a penalty position, sure, but the average customer does not want to move in 10 days. That’s too much chaos.Tammy:It’s hard, it’s hard to move in 10 days.Alec:But you nailed it, what they do want is they want the loan to be done. So, I’ve been talking to some people about the Smartloan and they always bring up what about appraisals. Because it’s like well, if we get someone credit approved at time of application in seven seconds and everyone’s head falls off and as soon as they get back together because I still don’t think people realize what that means. You say it, I’ve it a bunch, it sounds nice, but a customer submitting paperwork and having that cleared in seven seconds and having the loan officer and everybody else seeing that at the same time, real time, takes so much stress out of the process.Alec:So much like generic turn times go away except for exceptions, that to me is going to change how we do business, but then appraisals.Tammy:Yes and I think that appraisals are one of those key things that it’s always been the trigger to go to final approval because the appraisal is usually the last thing that comes in on the deal.Alec:Yeah, you’re waiting.Tammy:Yeah and the turn time is outside of your control. So you’re ordering the appraisal hoping it’s going to come back with quality.Alec:Well in some places the turn time’s like three weeks.Tammy:It can be.Alec:I mean and it’s like oh my gosh, you’re totally at their mercy.Tammy:Yeah, especially when you’ve got like a re-fi boom and there’s less appraisers than there are transactions in the area and things really can get backed up on the appraisal side.Alec:So what’s going to happen with appraisals?Tammy:There’s a lot of cool things that are out there right now in appraisals.Alec:Well, like what?Tammy:So, even just what we’ve done with DULA US, running DU and LP time simultaneously, using the agnostic format, being able to utilize either way, either path. There used to be this, I don’t know if it was like a myth, that people felt like if you ran DU and then you ran LP after it, it was not okay.Alec:Oh so, no, this is a real thing.Tammy:Right?Alec:I was afraid, I don’t know where I learned it or how I learned it.Tammy:I don’t know why.Alec:I think when you told me you can run both and I’m like, what do you mean? I full on was like you can? I was told the agencies get mad, like somebody’s going to come and yell at me.Tammy:Yeah, and there’s no agency yeller out there, but-Alec:It’d be incredible if somebody showed up, “Hey.”Tammy:Yeah, wait, you just pressed the LP button right after DU?Alec:I’m out.Tammy:Yes, so I think that the agencies want you to follow their requirements and so they like it when you run their Day US.Alec:I mean what pick up as, and maybe you don’t know the answer to this, but since you rolled out DULA US which elegantly shows both options where you’ve got waivers, property inspection waivers, has that increased our property inspection waiver and any clue by how much as a percentage?Tammy:Three times.Alec:3X more property appraisal waivers?Tammy:Property inspection waivers or appraisal waivers, yes.Alec:Which is money for the customer and time.Tammy:Time and money. It reduced your time so your cycle time can be reduced between 12 and 18 days and it saves the customers about $500 in fees.Alec:I’d say take 500 all day long.Tammy:Right? And it gives you more surety because you know that value’s already acceptable and it’s not really a waiver. I know that we talk about it as a waiver.Alec:That’s our language.Tammy:But it’s a digital appraisal because the agencies have so much data on that property that the value that has been reviewed is acceptable based on the data that they have.Alec:So outside of waivers, I keep calling it that because I can’t help it, what is the future of appraisals look like? And this is totally pie in the sky out there, but what’s the future of that?Tammy:I think that there’s still going to be more streamlining and we’ve been doing a lot of prototyping and working with our agencies and investors on better ways to collect the data that’s needed in order to validate the-Alec:Like what, what have you done that’s fun?Tammy:I’ve done drone appraisals.Alec:Drone appraisals? Like the drone flies over the house?Tammy:Yeah, the drone flies over the house.Alec:Okay, who’s piloting the drone? This is awesome.Tammy:Yeah, we have FAA regulated drone pilots and most of them are ex-military.Alec:Of course. So drone appraisals, what else? That’s awesome.Tammy:The 3D holographic appraisal where it shows the inside of the property in the 3D format, a lot of people have seen those in open houses.Alec:Yeah, I was going to say on open houses.Tammy:Yes, so they’ve gotten so exact that it shows the exact-Alec:Layout.Tammy:Yeah, layout of the property. And so that could really be a possible option for an internal view of a property from a investor and agency perspective.Alec:What else?Tammy:The bifurcated model where you have an appraiser that sits at their desk and receives the data and then gets photo feeds from somebody else that goes out and inspects the property but in the end, the appraiser at their desk gathers all the and the pictures to complete the appraisal.Alec:That sounds like a big efficiency pick up than having an appraiser drive all over the place every day.Tammy:It is, especially with the lack of appraisers in some areas. So an appraiser that might have to go out to all these different properties would be able to do, I don’t know, maybe three times as many if they were sitting at their desk receiving information.Alec:And that does leverage the gig economy in some way?Tammy:It does and so we’ve been able to use different website picture taking capability to be able to request pictures of different properties with geo stamping.Alec:So like an Amazon driver cruising around could snap some pictures of the comps.Tammy:Yeah, an Amazon driver or an Uber delivery person or somebody that’s in the area could get a little extra money by taking pictures of properties while they’re in the area.Alec:And does this translate into savings for the customer besides speed?Tammy:It does, so it helps the turn time get down to less than two days.Alec:That’s the magic number right there, that makes me really happy.Tammy:The cost of the appraisal goes down to less than $200 an appraisal.Alec:Oh my gosh, this is where I get excited because I feel like it’s a one two punch because there’s always been a stress on the mortgage process of if I want more platform and bells and whistles, I have expense. If I want better rates, I got to have less infrastructure, there’s always tugging on each other. And a lot of people in retail, from a sales perspective, sell service above rate and now you’re telling me I can get service and a cheaper process with technology enhancements and it feels like a one two punch.Tammy:And if we do a less expensive process then we can pass that savings on to the consumer which is something else that they would love to see.Alec:They would love some extra money and cheaper process or better rates, absolutely.Tammy:Better rate is really that holy grail that you want to get to, but the cost of doing business makes it so that it’s harder to give that better rate. But if you have a more streamlined, more efficient process then you can give that back to the customer in rate and price.Alec:So we unpacked appraisals a little bit, let’s talk about paperwork and signings. So today we have an e-hybrid process, maybe break that down a minute and then maybe talk about full digital.Tammy:Yeah, so the hybrid e-close and that doesn’t sound sexy at all.Alec:I know, we got to dress that up.Tammy:Mello Smartclose.Alec:There you go, Smartclose, I like it.Tammy:What we’ve done is we’ve been able to roll it out in all 50 states where we offer a streamlined closing for our customers. That they can digitally sign anything that’s disclosure type information three days prior to closing. And then they go to closing and anything that has terms and conditions of the loaner needs to be notarized and recorded can be wet signed.Alec:How many documents is that like four, five, six, seven something like that?Tammy:Yeah, you got a big thick stack of documents even though we’re paperless.Alec:Of course.Tammy:Paperless, right?Alec:That’s like the ultimate joke. Paperless until you go to your loan signing.Tammy:Yes, and then it’s got these-Alec:And then you’re murdered by a stack of dead trees.Tammy:It is, there’s like those stickies that have the arrows that say sign here, sign here with the yellow highlighted line.Alec:Well anyone that’s listening that’s closed a loan knows the pain of this.Tammy:There’s pain.Alec:Because if you done your own loan signing, I mean your hand cramps, it’s bad.Tammy:Yeah, you might need a couple pens.Alec:At least do pens. And so with the hybrid process, they basically sign all the disclosure parts with their CB, couple, three days earlier.Tammy:Right, and then when they come to closing, all they have to do is sign anything that has terms and conditions of the loan and needs to be notarized and recorded. So, it can go from an hour and a half to a 15 minute closing.Alec:Four minutes, well if it’s me it’s like see you.Tammy:But the thing that I think is even better is that the customers get to review their documents before their closing and can be able to ask their questions, feel comfortable with what the transaction looks like.Alec:That’s a really good point, I didn’t even think about that.Tammy:And the customers want that, they want to be able to understand it. They don’t want to go to a closing and be like sign here, sign here, sign here.Alec:300 pages, super overwhelmed.Tammy:It’s hard to be able to review everything, this gives them the ability to be able to review their documents ahead of time and feel comfortable with the transaction before they go to sign.Alec:What about full digital closings?Tammy:So full digital closing are still in a beta format. We have the plumbing in place to be able to do it.Alec:How does it work?Tammy:A full digital closing would be that there are no wet signatures, it’s all electronic signature.Alec:Crazy.Tammy:And there is remote notary.Alec:Remote notary?Tammy:Yes, so the remote notary can come on to the corner of your screen, just like if you’re FaceTiming or Skyping and they authenticate the customer by a metric authentications and there are several different biometric authentications which really, I mean everybody’s familiar with it if you think about the thumbprint recognition on your iPhone or the facial recognition, those are biometric authentications. There’s also a touch pad authentication that’s also available that, did you know that the pressure that you place on your signature actually is a fingerprint of your signature so that’s pretty cool.Alec:Pressure on as you draw your signature, like the pressure points where you put the pen harder and softer? So mine which is literally two circle squiggles, that’s my fingerprint, no-one else can do that?Tammy:Yeah, nobody else is going to be able to do your two squiggles in the way that you do.Alec:That’s right, they’re very special squiggles.Tammy:It’s so special. It’s like a snowflake squiggle.Alec:Oh my gosh.Tammy:But we also use the holographic imagery on your ID, there’s holographic imagery on the ID that the remote notary could utilize as well. The thing that I think is cool, there’s lots of cool things about remote notary, that you could close from anywhere. I would prefer to close at the beach.Alec:Well, okay.Tammy:But wherever you want to close your loan is fine and the remote notary does video the transaction as well which I think is pretty cool because that’s another documentation source, a digital validation of the signing of the loan which I think is very good and actually adds quality to that transaction. So remote notarization, some are doing it in the industry, we’ve done it by beta and I think that in 2020 we’ll see more and more of remote notarization. The county, some aren’t ready for it.Alec:Yeah, I was going to say, you’re outpacing some of the counties, they’re not ready.Tammy:Or the states maybe aren’t ready, their laws are antiquated, but more states are coming on every day to be able to accept it and we’re fully plumbed for it, so we’re ready to go. I’m getting my hybrid e-close adoption rate up and then I’m going to roll county by county.Alec:Oh my gosh, the customers are ready, I just don’t know if the industry’s ready.Tammy:Well, I think everybody’s ready to close their loans at the beach, wouldn’t that just be lovely?Alec:I’m down. All right so, wow, we’re almost 40 minutes in and we’ve unpacked a ton of crazy stuff. What’s next in the Tammy mind? Because I know you’re thinking six steps ahead, I know you’re not just like what’s tomorrow, what is and where is this whole things going to go in your mind?Tammy:I think the customer will be able to self-select the things that they need to in order to feel that they are controlling their transaction. That will use more and more data versus documents and we will eventually not need to use paper documents anymore at all. But using digital validations, using data as close to the source as possible will continue to improve the quality of the transactions.Alec:Yeah, well I just imagine that pulls out tons of risk, speeds up tons of turn times and gets you more accurate information immediately. And I bet there’s somebody in here listening that’s scared of this conversation and they’re scared because they built their entire business off of being a loan structuring guru. They know all the twicks and turns, they know when do one year tax return versus two and when to go LP and when to do this and what to do this.Alec:And when you’re talking about going direct to data sources and gathering in the information, that almost removed their ability to pick and choose what to show or package. So, how would you help somebody who might be feeling a little bit intimidated or insecure this is going to replace them?Tammy:Yeah, so I think the value comes from the human touch and that’s something that a computer’s never going to replace.Alec:That’s the clip, dude, right there, that’s the one. I love that, you’re right. You’re totally right, the human touch.Tammy:The relationships that we bring are what help us to be that trusted advisor on the most important transaction that a customer may have in their lifetime.Alec:Yeah, lodger’s debt.Tammy:Yeah. And so they really do, even though they like the streamlined speed of the process, they like to be able to have surety as close to application as possible. They also need a trusted advisor, they may have never gone through this before. They don’t understand and they need somebody to guide them through the process and that’s really what the sales team needs to continue to do is continue to foster the relationships. Our business partners and our real estate agents want the surety at time of application too.Alec:Yeah they do, of course they do.Tammy:Yeah, a builder doesn’t want to build a home without a golden approval. And if we give them a golden approval, it helps them to be able to feel comfortable in building that home and knowing the customer qualifies.Alec:Our realtor partners, to your point, they don’t want to take someone around they don’t know if they can actually buy the home, they want them to be sure that it’s all buttoned up. So yeah, you’re right, I think the industry is ready, I think there’s just going to be waves with this stuff. And in fact I do owe you a lot of credit because when I first hung out with you a couple years ago and started to hear what you wanted to do, it’s crazy to see it in fruition which is really cool so congratulations, that’s got to feel really good.Tammy:Thank you.Alec:But it also really got my mind pivoting to the future of the loan professional especially the local one who’s in community who are my people who I really care about. And if the process to get a loan, I even heard you say that maybe the future state is just people walk around approved constantly all the time.Tammy:It could be, it could be that people have their information in a way where, and this may be a little bit down the road.Alec:I like it, let’s talk about post-apocalyptic, let’s get all weird, it’s good.Tammy:I think that they could have their digital wallet with their data where they have their income, employment, asset information available to them and then they give us a token to allow us to access it for the transaction. And that token gives us the information without us having to reach out to third party data sources because the third party data sources keep their information in their digital wallet constantly updated. So that customer could know at any time what they would qualify for, but they would still need that trusted advisor to understand what product’s best for them, what they’re trying to accomplish and how they can at best accomplish their goals and to still guide them through that transaction. It’s complicated.Alec:Yeah, so when I heard you talk about that stuff, about constant approval, wallet, token, everything’s plumbed all the time in real time, my brain went to man, the future of the sales people, my people, it’s very clear to me that in order to maintain their position in the industry and not just get run over, that they have to create a lot of influence with humans, actual people. Because those people are going to potentially can get their loan approved with a retinal scan or a face recognition and if that’s what approving your loan, then the question is where do you go get your face scanned.Alec:And so then hopefully our loan professionals have earned enough influence where they go, “Well, I’m going to do it with Alec because he’s a good dude or I like him or whatever, I trust him.”Tammy:Well and now it can help with the real estate agent as well so that … everybody knows that loans never are exactly just vanilla loans. There’s always something surprising that comes up on a loan and that’s really where you need the seasoned professional as well.Alec:I love that you said that because if we go back and talk about the Smartloan again, people are messy. Humans are messy and tech’s going to go so far, but then it’s going to require humans to come back in and look at stuff and make rational decisions. I mean, common sense with a machine, sometimes they don’t make the same choice.Tammy:Yeah, exactly and taking the information and even though the computer may be looking for a vanilla type loan, being able to utilize all of that years of experience to be able to find a way to get the deal done even though it looks … the computer will say, oh we can do it or we can’t do it and here’s the information that’s missing. But to be able to restructure the deal to make it work for that customer and meet their goals and what they’re trying to accomplish, that’s the nuance that we still definitely need those trusted advisors for.Alec:What I love about this conversation is, I bet there’s a bunch of loan officers getting excited because technology, man, it enhances our ability to do more. To scale, to have more freedom, more influence, more opportunity and Smartloan sounds to be like just another complement in the whole process.Tammy:Yeah, it’s just another tool for our originators to be able to serve the customer the way they want to be served.Alec:It’s a pretty badass tool, it’s pretty good. It’s like rocket boosters. Okay, so, as we wind down, I always ask the same couple questions because I think it’s really valuable for people listening. Our industry is going to obviously as we just unpacked for like 45 minutes, there’s a lot of change in our industry and we’re on the tipping point of what I consider dramatic change. And finally have seen technology come in to an industry that’s been stagnant for over a decade post-crisis and actually enhance the customer experience, bring efficiencies, reduce cost, all the things that tech does wonderfully.Alec:And you’ve managed sales people and you obviously managed a lot of operations people, I would love for you to spend a couple seconds and just unpack some advice. If you’re a loan officer out there and you’re staring at this crazy world, what do you tell them? What would you encourage them, how would you help them see what’s going on?Tammy:I’d say don’t try to do it all at once, take one step at a time and put something into your process that you haven’t previously done to embrace some of the new tools or technology. There’s a lot of tools and technology out there, but embrace it one thing at a time and look at your customer base and figure out what’s most important to them. And so if it’s just like putting digital online application on your website and allowing them to self serve on their application, maybe that’s your first best step.Tammy:Validating digitally some of the income and assets, maybe that’s a good first step. Doing DULA US and getting more PIWs and ACE waivers, maybe that’s your step. There’s lots of different ways, embracing the hybrid e-close and being able to serve more of your customers with a streamlined closing, that could be your first step. There’s lots of different things that you can do, but one thing that I do recommend to the sales team, we talked about the back of the card.Alec:Yeah, with the W2, please give me your pay stub, W2, tax returns, yeah.Tammy:It would be good to try to get data first. If you could get data first-Alec:Use the tools we have, go out and try to get data validations.Tammy:And then if you can’t get the data, then go ahead and go and get the paper. But getting data first is a very good way of starting.Alec:Well you have had a hashtag for two years, press the button which is great. Please, just try.Tammy:Yeah, if you could just press the button, maybe we make it easier for the customer. But if you go get paper and then you press the button and then you give your underwriter the paper and pressing the button, then you’re having the underwriter double reviewing stuff and you’re making it even more inefficient.Alec:I’ve heard from some people that if you go out and try to leverage the data sources and the data tools but then you go and do the loan the old fashioned way, all you did was add cost with the data tools. You didn’t pick up anything because you just … it’s silly.Tammy:Then here’s no efficiency and there’s no reason why it’s good for the customer to do that and it is really silly. I think it’s really silly.Alec:I know, it’s like do this and then go back to the old school way. Okay, so ending comments, what else would you contribute to anybody paying attention right now and hanging out in our crazy industry?Tammy:I think we need to digitize everything and we need to do e on everything. And if we can digitize everything and e all the documents, our customers will have a much better experience.Alec:There it is, you heard it. This is the woman changing the mortgage it’s been really incredible. I appreciate everyone tuning in, we’re going to wrap it down, Tammy there’s a chance we’ll probably have to bring you back because I’m sure we’re going to get tons of questions and people being like, “Wait, wait, I need more of this.” So, thank you for your time today, thank you for everybody listening, I hope you guys have a wonderful day, we’re out of here.Tammy:Bye.

Let’s unpack what is limiting your growth and opportunity on social media by exploring the I.C.E. strategy and leaning in to what needs to change!

Items you need to find in this edition of LiveTime with Alec:

• I.C.E.
• Be a Human and connect
• Engage, engage, engage…even if it’s uncomfortable
• Take a moment and listen to the responses.

Episode Transcribe

Hey, what’s up, everybody?

Happy whatever day it is today. Is it Wednesday?

This is what happens when you get the coronavirus. I don’t really have the coronavirus, but it’s possible. I have a sore throat, I’m surviving. Fun topic today, man, fun topic today, and thanks for those of you that are joining me live right now. As you know, this stuff is stored on YouTube, and it’s part of my experiment of leaning in to this power of social media and engagement with you guys online. Thank you for joining me on LinkedIn, Facebook, I see you guys, and YouTube, it’s pretty cool. Let me mute this right here before we get going.Comments on LinkedIn are always awkward, I have to watch it on my phone because LinkedIn’s kind of broken. All right, what motivated me to jump into the content today is watching a lot of you guys go out and put yourself into social media really aggressively, which for me to see is awesome, because I know, potentially, I played a small role in giving you a little push, and I was talking to the new guys at orientation today and I was just pushing everybody in the video, because even though Gary V. disagrees, if you’re a writer, write. If you’re in sales and you’re in the mortgage industry, man, you got to meet customers face-to-face. You got to be chest-to-chest with people. If you’re not, you’re losing out.I always bring up the same thing: don’t you love meeting your customers face-to-face? And everyone’s like, well, yeah, that’s where I build rapport, that’s where they get to see my energy, they get to know if I’m trustworthy, yeah, I love meeting my customer face-to-faces. And I’m like, there’s a thousand of them, if you just want to turn the camera around and meet them face-to-face there, digitally, where they are, because they’re staring at their phone all day long, all day long. You know what the recent statistic is about how often people check their social media accounts per day? It’s high. Google that stuff, it’s amazing. There’s of ton of people, this right here, all day long. I’m one of them, so I know, because I am that person. All right, you’re diving into social media, you agree with what I’m saying, you’re putting out all this content, are you getting the results you want? It’s time to unpack the process so that you can actually start getting the results that you want from your efforts. If you’re getting the results, you don’t to pay attention here. But if you’re not, oof.Oh, Minh Nguyen. Yeah, 45 times, checks your social media. I think the average is, like, five, so Minh’s at 45, checking his social media. He’s a little broken, I’m not judging. I’m following in your footsteps, so don’t judge me. If you’re on LinkedIn and commenting, I cannot see it yet, so give me a second, I’ll get it queued up. All right, let’s get this thing going here. Social media in its finest right here.So for those of you that are playing but you’re not getting the results you want, here’s two strategies I want to unpack: the first one is I.C.E., the I.C.E. strategy. Now, for those of you that have heard me talk about social media before and growing influence before online, the I.C.E. strategy is, in my opinion, foundationally true. I got to give a big shout out to Daniel Probert for helping me unpack this concept, the guy’s amazing, he runs a great company called WOWMI. I love that guy. And let me just break down what this means: it’s an acronym, you got that, right? So I.C.E., it’s not really ice. If you are trying to grow influence on social media, if you’re putting out content and not getting any response and nobody’s listening and nobody’s paying attention, then chances are you’re not following this strategy, and it starts with identify. I always joke, if you’re tweeting a ton and your only follower is your mom, hi, Mom, you’re not getting the connection to humans. So the first thing is you have to identify … I didn’t spell identify right, did I? It’s the coronavirus, I’m getting through it.Oh thanks, Scott, yeah, Face-to-Face, that’s an amazing book. Identify who you want to connect with and start to connect with them online. So the I is identify. If you’re in mortgages, start with your real estate professionals, start with your past customers, start with your sphere of influence, start with your friends and family. How many people are connected with on social media? How about business owners, everybody. Everyone that you want to influence, you should be connecting with, and you need to identify them first. Once you identify, you get to go to the C, which I’ve said 17 times as we’ve been talking: connect. Like actually connect, reach out, virtual hug, get them in there. Make a connection. If you want a pro tip, always send a personal message: hey, wanted to connect with you. Personal message. Don’t just send out invites. Be a human, okay? Connect.And then this one, the E of the I.C.E. is arguably the most important thing, and I put down engage, educate and entertain; pick one. Pick the one that you like the best. But let’s start with engage: if you have a massive network on your social media and you are not engaging with them, why do you think they’re going to engage with you? It’s like standing at a party in a corner and being like, I’m the coolest person here, and never talking to anybody. Do you think they’re going to come talk to you? You got to get out and talk to people, and if you need an example, then just Google Brian Covey and watch him online. And then just do that. Engage people online. I get it, I get it, it’s sometimes uncomfortable, you don’t like it. Maybe it’s a competitor and you’re feeling weird. I don’t care, engage. Engage with human beings. It’s never a bad thing. If you want people to engage with you, engage with them. Once you’ve identified and connected to humans, and now you can start to educate, entertain and engage, now, now we go back to this. Are you listening?Look, every time, I did 100 video in 100 days. Every time I did one of these livestreams, every time I put out a piece of content on social media, I sit back and go, how are people responding? Is it landing? Anybody there? Anybody care? This is how you get better. Be a student of your own experience, pay attention. There are so many of you putting out content, and then I wonder, are you actually going back and looking and going, is it landing for people? I just released a podcast episode with Minh, who’s commenting and giving me some love, and Adam Encinas, great guys that work here, and I’m proud to work around them because I’m learning a ton from them. One of the things they said which really struck with me was, do you have the right people around you to give you the feedback on your content? Even today, when I was coaching somebody, make sure you send your stuff to people that aren’t in the mortgage industry, and ask them if they understand what the hell you’re saying! I know, mind-blowingly powerful insights there, coming at you from the land of common sense. You feel me on this? We get stuck using industry vernacular, that’s true all the time, right? We’re so in our business, DTI, PITI. People are like, I don’t know what the hell you’re saying? Are you cussing at me? Is this a threat? You got to break it down in the simplest way. You got to listen to your audience. If you’re posting a ton and nobody is there and engaging, maybe you need to pivot your message. Maybe you need to go back and look at your I.C.E. strategy and go, do I have enough connection to people? Am I engaging enough with other people to reciprocate engagement?These are important questions. Are you listening? This is not going to be a long livecast today, I tried to push 20-30 minutes; number one, I’m a little sick, number two, this message is clear and to the point. Identify who you want to connect with, be intentional in a connection strategy to grow your base of community online, and the engage with that community, comment, like, be part of the network, be part of the community. Don’t go to the party and stand in the corner, go to the party and talk to everybody about what they’re interested in, because if you just turn the camera on and you’re like, just give me loans, it’s not going to work. But if you’re going and engaging and supporting their business, engaging and sharing their content, asking questions, complimenting, affirming, challenging, all the stuff that is life, if you’re that person, and then you start putting out your own content, you’re going to see the reciprocation. You’re going to see your community develop and blossom. If you are just a walking, talking billboard about your company, you’re missing the boat. You hear me? I know you hear me, because you’re watching. And that’s my main comment. Today I just got passion, I’m like, all right, I’m going to put a 10-minute little live thing up here on listening, because there’s a lot of people that need to hear this. There’s a lot of people that are putting out content, have not spent the time on the I.C.E. strategy, they do not spend the time engaging with other people, and they just content, content, content, and they’re getting muted. You’re getting muted for sure. Someone’s being like, ah, I love this person. Mute. See you in 30 days. That’s not what you’re going after, guys. So think about this. Listen and ask for feedback. Ask for feedback from people that are watching, ask for feedback from friends and family outside the industry, and you’ll get it. And you’ll get better. The whole game is about getting better. The whole game is about getting better. I was just talking to Dan, who runs Utah for us, and we’re just joking about videos and livestreams, and he was on live today. I said, “You did great.” He’s like, “Ah, yeah … ” I’m like, “No, dude, you did great.” We’re all getting better every day, and the more we flex our muscles, the stronger we get. That makes sense? Identify, connect, engage. Put out content and listen. It’s all I got for you guys today.Keep getting better. I’ll see you online. Take care, everybody.

Enter your text here…Alec delivered a speech at his high school Alma Mater, Corona Del Mar High School to the Future Business Leaders of America. He talks about how life can be a never ending group project, how life can be testing at times and how this all translate to business in the ideals of ownership and success.

Your snippet of this episode of the Modern Lending Podcast:

• It’s strange to go back to high school
• Everything you hear about life in high school is a lie
• Life is one big group project to the end of time
• You have to take ownership of your success

Episode Transcribe

Alec Hanson:So, this is really cool for me. It’s been 20 years, literally, since I graduated from this high school. And I’ve been asked to come back and talk to the FBLA, the Future Business Leaders of America group about just leadership and what that means. That’s going to be so much fun. I love talking to high schoolers because I remember being one, and I didn’t know anything. I thought I was so grown up. Especially when I went to college, I thought I was so grown up. And I learned such a lot in my life. And it’s just going to be a really cool time. So come with me on the journey, let’s talk to some high schoolers about leadership.Hi guys, my name is Alec. I did go to this high school, and I graduated in 2000, which is super weird for me to come on to campus today. Normally I come back to the basketball tournaments. I had to go check the little trophy thing to see if my little face was still there. CIF volleyball champions. Any volleyball players in here? Basketball players? One guy. So I’ve known Oscar for a little bit. He actually reached out to me randomly on LinkedIn a couple of years ago, maybe a year ago, and asked me to come by. It’s fun to talk to you guys today, coming from this school. So I lived in the port streets and then my parents ended up moving down to the flower streets, kind of in Corona Mar. Anyone in those areas? Port streets is cool. I liked it.And then I’m over on Costa Mesa now, east side Costa Mesa. Yeah, I live over there now. I’m officially old, I think. I’m 38. I got an eight year old and a six year old daughter, son and daughter, two Bulldogs. And yeah, I’m a Senior Vice President of Production for a mortgage company. Anybody’s parents in mortgage? Yeah? You know anything about mortgage? It’s a funny industry. It’s gone through some crises. Anyone familiar with the recession we just had a few years ago? You were alive, it happened. But I do want to share with you guys, since you’re in the Future Business Leaders of America group, kind of what it’s like. And I want to start here. Do any of you guys have massive pressure on your life to be great? I see like alligator arms.If you’re in this group and your parents made you do it, you just do this. Yeah, that’s fine. Look, if you’re in Corona Mar guys, there’s massive pressure on you. There’s massive pressure on me. And most likely your parents are all very successful. Fair? And so the pressure on you guys is to be just as successful. And sometimes that transitions into good things, and sometimes that transition to really toxic, terrible things. Is that a fair comment? So I had huge pressure on me to be great at sports. Won CIF two times in basketball, we lost in the finals. Never forget that terrible experience. I went to UC Berkeley. Does anybody else got their school already figured out? By the way, who are you guys? Seniors? Juniors?Students:It’s a mix.Alec Hanson:It’s a mix. Okay, if you’re a senior, raise your hand. Junior? Sophomore? Freshman? Man, the pressure is big on you guys, huh? That’s good. Get into the FBLA immediately. Anyone have their college done, you know where you’re going? Where we going?Students:UT Austin.Alec Hanson:Awesome. Where else? Anybody else got your college done? All right, so let me tell you the truth about business, life, and what you’re facing. First of all, all of it’s fake. All of it’s fake. You guys hear me on this? Let’s break it down. Who has giant Instagram followers or TikTok followers? I’m surprised you don’t notice me, I’m huge on TikTok. It’s really embarrassing. Everyone wants my autograph later. Look, the like culture and the Instagram life culture is huge and it pushes us into this fakeness. Everything in the world today is made up. Some human made it up. And I’m giving you that background because as you go through college and then into work, you’re going to get hit in the face with a bunch of policies and procedures and best practices and expectations.And you have to remember all of that’s made up by somebody. You can follow it or not follow it. The other ultimate truth is, hard work is really all that matters. You can be really, really smart. I think I’m kind of smart, but my key to success was outworking everybody. My first year getting mortgage loans, I literally was 100% commission sales person. Does anybody’s desire in their entire life to be 100% commission salesperson? You guys know what that means? Kind of? It means if I don’t get a deal, I don’t get paid and I can’t pay for rent, or life, or anything fun. So I literally wandered around the streets of Orange County, and Corona Del Mar, and Newport Beach and talked to everyone I could and said, ‘Do you need a loan to buy a house?” That was my strategy.Really strong, really good. But the reality is a lot of people don’t work very hard. So if you show up every day and execute, even if you’re not the smartest person in the world, you will absolutely beat the competition. My first year in the business, I was the number one producer in the entire country. Now that doesn’t mean anything to you, you don’t care, you’re never going to see me again unless you’re on TikTok. But the only reason I was the number one producer in the entire country at 23 years old was because everybody else doesn’t work very hard in life. You show up.Here’s my other encouragement. How many of you guys are going to be managers and leaders in the future? What else are you going to do? Nothing? You’re like, “I don’t want to talk to this guy.” I really, really, really encourage you guys to spend a year in sales. One year of your life selling something. Has anybody done that today? Worked like an internship or a program over the summer where you were in sales? Guys, everything is sales. Think about it for a second. Who watched the State of the Union Address last night? Sales. All of it was sales. All of it was a positioning and a posturing and a convincing. We’re going into an election year, it’s going to be all sales coming at you. Did you watch the Super Bowl? Yes? Did you see the commercials? Sales. If you’re a teacher at this school, what are you doing?You’re going to say educating, you’re going to say teaching, but the reality is have you had great teachers and what you would consider not so great teachers? What differentiated it? What changed it? The way they came at you with the information. They either made it exciting or they’re on their way out and they made it boring and they didn’t care anymore. Does that sound right? I really, really encourage you guys to spend a year in sales. I don’t care what you sell, just sell something. Vacuums door to door. Work for your parents’ company and sell something. Most of you guys have parents that run probably big companies. It will absolutely redefine how you see the world because all of it… And again, this is totally my paradigm and my worldview, so take that for what it is. But so much of the world that you’re going to go into is sales.And so fast forward, from my number one producer in the country plaque, I’m now managing eight states. We do about $4 billion in mortgage production across the country. And I’ve got about a thousand employees helping me do that in local markets all across the states. So that sounds really fun and amazing until you realize you have to travel all the time, and that sucks, I don’t see my kids as much as I want to and I got to fix that too. But I lay all this up for you because the foundation of sales absolutely transformed how I lead human beings. And I want you to see that theme as we kind of discuss and have some conversation today. I also am very open to you guys asking questions if you want real talk about anything that you’re really concerned about. I don’t want to just present a bunch of stuff to you guys and you walk away and go, “Okay, that was interesting.”I want you to kind of hear me and understand that I live over in Costa Mesa. The only reason I’m here is because Oscar reached out for help. You guys have a huge network around you of people that want to help you. You’re in a really cool age and frame of life and mind stage where you can just be like, “Hey, I’m curious. What’s that like?” Or, “Hey, can I get some help on this?” Or, “Hey, what’s it like going to Berkeley?” You guys have a huge network of support around you, you should tap into it. So please ask questions if you have anything you’re confused about or questions about.I’ll dive into some leadership stuff. Anybody watch Gary Vee? Gary Vaynerchuk? Yeah? The snake oil salesman? The one thing about Gary Vee I love that I know he’s right on, is he leads with empathy and patience. You guys you’re so young, you’re not going to hear this right, but I’m just going to say it anyway. I thought I was old when I went to college. I was like, “I did it. I’m an adult.” And then I thought I was old when I had my first job and I lived in my own apartment and I paid my own way. I’m like, “Now I’m officially an adult because I’m paying for my own life now.” And then I had kids and I’m like, “Oh my God, I am not an adult. Please take me back to high school.”You guys, you have so much time ahead of you. Gary Vaynerchuk talks about it and I’ll share it with you too. Patience is going to be your biggest asset as you go on to become the future leaders you want to become. And patience with other human beings is just as equally important. That empathy thing that you guys hear… How many of you guys, and let’s just be bold, consider yourself relatively intelligent? Okay. We’ve got some people who are very insecure about their intelligence level. Okay. Keep them up if you’re like, “I’m actually strong to quite strong intelligence.” Good, good. Be bold about it. Fine. Be happy with it. God bless you. Use your intelligence. Combine it with work ethic and you’ll kill it in the world. But here’s the thing, if you’re going to be a future leader, guess what? How many of you guys love group projects? Oh my God, are they the best thing ever? You love them? They’re terrible. Aren’t they terrible? Why are they terrible? Why?Because nobody does anything except for you, right? Is that fair? Okay, you ready for the terrible truth? The entire world is a group project forever until you die. Guys, you want anything in life? You want to be a leader, you want to have inspire people, you want to do great things in whatever career you go into? Guess what? It’s a group project forever until you die. Just get settle in. Because that’s it. That’s the patience and empathy for other people. If you consider yourself above average intelligence, a go getter, a hard worker, guess what? There are some people in the future that you’re going to work with that are like, “Dude, this is my job. I just punch in, punch out, leave me alone. I want to go home at five.”Do you feel me on that? Empathy and patience and hard work, are what’s going to drive you to the success. But also just realize guys, right now at your specific age… How many you guys have a side hustle right now? Like a real one. Anybody? What do you got? What are you doing? Okay, I like it. Anybody else have… What do you got?Students:I own a company.Alec Hanson:What do you do?Students:Gary Vee actually owns part of it.Alec Hanson:Does he?Students:Yeah.Alec Hanson:Big dog over here. I like it. So what do you sell?Students:Toffee.Alec Hanson:Actual toffee?Students:Yeah.Alec Hanson:Oh, candy.Students:Yeah, candy.Alec Hanson:Oh, I dig it. I got to get your Instagram handle afterward, I’ll check it out.Students:All right.Alec Hanson:So I would really encourage you guys to go play in your free time. How many of you guys think you have free time? Guys, you have so much free time. How many hours are in a day? How many of those do you have control over? Well, not all… You’re kind of forced to come here a little bit, right? You got some restrictions around you. Not all of you live on your own, I’m assuming. So you got some restrictions from mom and dad. But I’m telling you guys, the ultimate advantage is that when you realize… I’ll tell you a story… My first job in the business before I got into sales was a receptionist. I sat at Michelson next to Whole Foods, or was Whole Foods, I don’t know what it is now, over there. And I literally sat in the front desk. Some person would come in with the groceries, with their little loaf of bread, and be like, “Hey, can I get a loan for my house?” That was what I did. I sat there. $90 a loan. Killed it.And what I learned though at some point was when you work in an office setting, guess what? They’re terribly, terribly gross. People don’t clean up after themselves, which you’ll learn in college when you have roommates, it’s gross. It’s terrifying. And then like the kitchen in the back of an office, any office, is a war zone. There’s things growing, there’s things that sit in the sink for 72 days, it’s actually terrifying. And I realized one day, I was clocking out at five and I’m like, “Why am I leaving at five? I can sit here all day, all night.” I wasn’t married. I didn’t have anything to do. I’d just go home and watch binge Netflix or something. So all I did was I started to clean up the place every night. I made the place mine. And when it was mine, I put signs up and said, if you leave something in the fridge, I’m going to throw it in the trash. Somebody put it in the fridge, I threw in the trash, I was like, “What? Come at me. Let’s just deal with it. You’re gross. Throw your stuff away.”Ownership is probably the preeminent… Like if you point anybody that has success in their life and career, guess what they take? They take ownership of their results. You guys know the difference between a victim and an owner? Have you broken this down in your minds before? This is a very powerful topic. I hope to leave it to you because if you’re going to be future leaders, you’re going to have to figure out ownership. In those group projects where no one else is doing any of the work, your grade is tied to it. You have to kind of take ownership of it don’t you, if it’s going to get done?The same thing happens in life. You have people who aren’t very competent, people who don’t want to be competent, and you still have to take an ownership of the result. Let me give you a good example. Who’s in AP classes? What’s the hardest AP class here today? I took six when I was here. I can’t remember, they’re all blurred my mind. What’s the hardest one?Students:AP Chem.Alec Hanson:AP Chem?Students:[A-push 00:13:30].Alec Hanson:A-push? I’m like, I don’t know what the pushing is, but I got… Okay. So, who is responsible for the grade you’re going to get in that class? No, the teacher. That’s perfect, though. That’s perfect because that’s the victim mentality. “It’s not my fault, it’s the teacher’s fault.” Do you feel me on that? By the way, that sucks if you have a teacher, you’re like, “Oh, it really is.” No, it’s not, it’s you. It’s your fault. That’s not fun to hear, is it? No one likes that conversation. Everyone’s like, “I hate you for saying this.” But it’s the truth because unfortunately you get to walk around with that report card and go apply to your colleges, and you got the grade on there. Whatever’s on there, that’s you. They don’t ask like, “Oh, that was the teacher.” “Oh my God, I’m so sorry. You had this teacher.”Do you feel me on this? Ownership, empathy, patience. Guys, these are themes that will absolutely transform your leadership style and who you choose to become as you try to figure out this crazy thing called life. But I would really encourage you to go have some fun and start a business and start selling something and just be young and have fun with it. Does that make sense? Because guys, responsibility stacks up. I got an eight and a six year old. They’re amazing human beings. I want to spend all the time I have with those two human beings.My other priorities of driving forward my businesses and stuff now have to happen like late at night when they’re asleep, Before, it was like at five o’clock when I got off work, I could do anything I wanted. Now I want to come home. I want to hang out with my kids. The priorities stack up on your life over time. But when you’re young and you’re you guys’ age, man, just go have fun, and go play, and go explore and figure it out and make tons and tons of mistakes. You know what great leaders do? Let’s ask this question before I go any further. What key words would you describe a great leader to have? What key characteristics would you say, “This makes up a great leader?” What? What do we got? This is when you have to talk. I can outwait you. Wisdom.Students:[inaudible 00:15:32].Alec Hanson:Huh? Flexible?Students:Responsible.Alec Hanson:Responsible. What do you got?Students:Confidence.Alec Hanson:Confidence.Students:Determination.Alec Hanson:Determination. What else? Patience. Yes, you throw my own words back at me. Someone’s listening, I appreciate you. What else? Good leader, great leader.Students:Innovative.Alec Hanson:Innovative. I’ll tell you all that stuff is relatively true. But when you try to find the actions of a great leader, I’ll give you one indicator of anybody you look at to see if they’re a great leader. Are they leading from the front and are they uncomfortable? And are they learning right alongside you? Guys, life never… We never stop learning. New things are coming at us all the time, coming at me all the time. My job as a leader is to be out in front experiencing it, trying it, failing at it.Let me give you an example. In sales in my business, it was a belly to belly game when I started originating at 23 years old. The reason was because the internet hadn’t really come through our industry yet. For example, if you wanted to find a house that was for sale, you could not go on Zillow or Realtor.com and find a house for sale. That’s pretty common now, right? Everyone knows what those sites are? You couldn’t do it. In order to do it, you had to find a real estate professional in the market and be like, “I want to buy a house over here,” and they could tell you what’s there because they had access to the data. You did not have access to the data.Fast forward today, data is everywhere. You can see anything you want online. Literally. It’s terrifying. The dark web, it’s a really fun place to be. But it’s radically forcing my originators to have to change, my sales people to have to change. And one of the things they have to do… The average age of my sales person is 52 years old. They spent 20 to 30 years in their job. They’re super smart and they’re super talented, and the modern consumer who wants to buy a house is totally ignoring them because they’re on the phone. Does that make sense a little bit?You can see how that would happen? So my sales people who are 52, like your parents’ age, have to figure out how to go online and build influence with social media. How do you think that’s going? Are your parents on social media? Not just to stalk you, but like on it for real? No, they’re stalking you for sure, right? With their fake accounts, they know about your fake accounts. They’re all there. What are your parents do online for work? Someone raised hand, do you know? What do you got?Students:[inaudible 00:17:52] .Alec Hanson:I love it. No, like on social media. Are they on Facebook or Instagram or TikTok? Are they on those channels working their business? No. No, they’re not. I was just trying to see if there’s one that I was like, “One person doing it.” No, they’re really not. Unless your parent is probably a real estate agent, then yes they are. But can you imagine the skillset change these people had to learn to go online and transform their business in a period of time. And as a leader, you can do one of two things. You can say, “Look, get online. Statistics say you need to be online. You need to grow a Facebook account. You need to grow your LinkedIn presence. You need to connect to all of the professionals and real estate agents, and builders, and home buyers, and community members so that when you talk about what you do for a living, they can find you.”So a leader can do that. Or a leader could show up and go, “You know what? I’m going to go online, I’m going to show you how to do it.” And a real leader will do both. They’ll tell you, but then they’ll do it too. Does that make sense? So when you’re looking at your leadership career or your management career, whatever you’re going to go, you’re going to take my advice, right? You’re going to spend one years in sales selling something? No you’re not, but I love you guys. Just go with me. Just nod. Just, “Yeah. Yeah, Alec, I’m doing it.” One year in sales, sell something and learn what that’s like. Because it’ll translate into everything you’re going to go into. Even if you’re like, “I’m going to be an engineer and I’m going to build rockets with Tesla or Elon.” Go into sales for one year. Yeah?Students:So you obviously advanced within your own company. How would you get a superior to notice you?Alec Hanson:Oh, such a great question. And thanks for being the first to do it. What’s your name?Students:Sam.Alec Hanson:Sam. First of all, superiors or bosses or whatever you want to call it, they always recognize the top performers. I know every single one of my top producers. By name, I’m intimate with them, I know them. So yes, you can show up by winning. That helps. But one of the most incredible things you can do to show up for people is just to ask them for advice. Do you know how many people want to talk about themselves? All of you. Like you all just want to talk about yourself all the time. By the way, that’s true for every human being on the planet. So if you just go to the boss… One of my successes in my career is that I went to top performers, top producers, top leaders and executives, and I literally said, “Hey, can I buy you a coffee? I want to know how to do what you do.” Or, “I want to improve my skillset, can you impart some of your wisdom on me?” Every single time they say yes, guys. They say yes all the time.Even I would jump up to the CEOs. I’m that little sales guy down here, 17 bosses between me and the CEO. And I’d be like, “Hey, can I meet with you? Will you teach me something? Here’s what I’m trying to learn.” If you guys just ask, the world opens up. It’s crazy. Especially when you posture it like, “Hey, I need to be educated. Help me.” Does that make sense? So you’ve got to win. If you lose, they’ll coach you, but you’re not getting promoted. And then the fascinating thing is every single time you take on new opportunities, man, the job changes dramatically.When I was teaching loan officers how to go get business, it was easy, “Do what I did, let me help you.” When I went up a level and started managing their managers, it was, “Lead like I led, let me help you.” And now as I get up here, whatever this means, I try to be a lot more cerebral and strategic, but also don’t forget to come right back down to human beings and be like, “How can I help you?” Guys, to grow as a leader, you have to help other people. Like, fundamentally. You want to be a great leader? Help people.What other questions do you guys have? That was a really good one, Sam, thank you. What do you want to know? I gave you a ton of random thoughts that you’re never going to remember. It’s all good. Thank you for sitting through this. I know it’s painful. But what you want to know? Yeah?Students:[inaudible 00:21:37].Alec Hanson:At Berkeley, I made up my own major, interdisciplinary studies, because I wanted to go to Haas Business School because that’s what good boys and girls do, you go to business school or else you’re a failure. Feel me on this? And I was there and I’m like, I hate calculus so much. This it’s so terrible. Computer science and coding was just the worst. I have no patience. So I went to the counselor and I said, “Can I take all the business school classes I want and then combine it with other stuff I’m interested in?” They said, “Yes, we’re a hippy school. No problem. All you have to do is write like a 4,000 page year end thesis.” And I was like, “I’m in.” And I made it my own major.By the way, another pro tip for college, no one’s going to want to hear this, but stack your freshman year and maybe your sophomore year with as many units as you can do. Stack it all. My senior year, I had enough credits with all my AP stuff that I graduated a semester early. So my dad was like, “Here’s a check, go to Europe. You know, whatever, I’ll pay for school.” And my senior year I had class Tuesdays and Thursdays. Two classes. That was it. Because I stacked my freshman year full of units. Oh, God bless you all. Are we done?Students:Yes, we are.Alec Hanson:Okay. Last thing guys, last thing and I’m serious about this. I’m on LinkedIn, Facebook, yes Tiktok, although it’s silly, and Instagram, but I’m also in Costa Mesa. If I can help you guys in any of your career path or choices, please hook up to me and let me help. All right> it’s Alec Hanson. God bless, see you guys later.

It’s more important than ever before for Loan Consultants to develop their local “muscle” to establish relationships, generate customer opportunities and grow their business. Therefore, developing a local marketing plan needs to be the foundation of your business origination strategy.

LiveTime with Alec highlights in this Edition:

• Is what your passionate about aligned with your community
• How can you be of service to your community
• What you need to pivot to help your local market
• This can all be as easy as a buying a hamburger

Episode Transcribe

What’s up everybody, welcome to another live stream with Alec.

Got the comments up here, getting ready to rock.

Turn that volume down. I hope you guys are having a great Wednesday, if you can believe it’s Wednesday. The world keeps moving on, and today in my weekly live across four platforms today, which is really fun. And, okay. Thanks Matt. Live. We’re talking about local marketing today. Ah, man, it’s so fun. I’ve talked a ton about digital because I’m super passionate about digital and you’re watching this on digital. You’ve heard me a million times talk about how important brand is, how important building out a connected digital community is. I mean, all this stuff is just massively important for your future success in referral based sales and mortgage sales. Got to do it. Now, as we look at the online buster, the internet buster, it’s the power of the fact that you’re local.If you’re a local professional, especially local mortgage professional, man, do you have a huge advantage over the internet companies. Because you can actually make human connection, real physical human connection, where they’re relegated to a digital relationship. Those are powerful. Got to play there too. But I think you should do both. I think you can do both, and I think that the next 20, 30 minutes as we unpack some of this stuff is going to be really fun to hopefully empower you to get out of your desk. That is the trap.Getting stuck in your office is the trap and not going directly to your community and building relationships is the trap. So let us kind of break it down here. I got my little notes up. Here’s the first thing that I really want to land for you guys as you’re looking at local marketing. The olden days of local marketing, the glory days, was bus stops and shopping card ads and maybe even billboards. All those we’ll planning that today too, I got you. It’s fine. But I would say, no, that’s not the right place to think about this. Local marketing is not dropping flyers and I would even argue it’s not necessarily door-knocking. Although, if that’s your thing, more power to you. I start with a foundation of, local marketing is about being in service to your community.Let’s say it again. A little slower. Local marketing is about being in service to your community. Hi, from Africa. That’s incredible. I love that. I got one person in Africa and my mom watches. So, that’s just amazing. All right, so let’s break it down. Local marketing is about serving your community. So what are you passionate about? That’s the first question I ask. What do you personally care about in your local market? And it’s going to be different for everybody. Some of you guys have charities you’re involved in, nonprofits, all that stuff is great. But what do you personally care about it? Do you care about a clean beach? Are you a surfer? And every time you go surfing, it just makes you furious when there’s just junk everywhere. I live next to a bay, a bay called the Back Bay, and yeah, there’re runners there.There’s people there enjoying the wildlife, and maybe that’s the passion that you have is “I want to keep that place clean.” Maybe you have a passion for Working Wardrobes, which is a really cool organization that I’m familiar with where you can go give your old suits and professional attire and they can help outfit people who can’t afford that stuff and help them get jobs. Whatever it is, whatever you care about, that’s the first question. You’ve got to make a list, because if you’re going to be local marketing-what’s up Nashville. How are you doing Alex? If you’re going to do local marketing, you need to do it with what you care about first. Let’s do that, right? We’re there. Second thing. What does your community, your local market around you, care about? Let’s frame it up. If you care about keeping your beach clean and nobody else is there ever, and no one, that’s a weird statement right, so people are at the beach for sure, but let’s just go with me, then that’s not probably the best place to serve if your local community doesn’t serve there.If you want to hit the one, two punch on local marketing, if you’re setting this up, trying to find out what you care about and make sure it aligns what your community cares about. Those two things come together and then you ask the final question which is, how can you be of service? Now you have a position to really kick some serious tail in local marketing. I’ll give you an example. One of my favorite examples, man, one guy that works with us, his name, Bill Gaylord, incredible guy, lifetime learner, really amazing and social these days, because he didn’t grow up on social media and he’s figuring it out.But I always tell the story because it really lands in what’s up Ben? Ben Oregon, Brian. Good to see you. No beaches, yeah, but beautiful forests, beautiful forests. So he really cares about the veteran community. He feels they’re underserved. He feels like they need to get educated and he wants to provide that mortgage education. And he relocated from San Diego to Las Vegas. And in San Diego for years and years and years, his team run a very, very successful veteran education seminar series, VA Home Buyer Success, I think it’s called. It’s awesome. And they’ve been doing it for 20 years, so there’s actually a lot of people that know about it. The real estate community knows about it and the vets figured it out and they’re coming in.Hey Ashley, thanks for love on Facebook. And the vets are there hanging out. Well, he goes to-Oh, what’s up Lance. Big man? No, you’re the big man, dude. We should hang out soon, bud. Miss our talks. So he goes to Vegas, he’s like, “I’m going to do the same VA Education, Home Buying Success stuff. And he starts to put out some flyers and some Eventbrites and no one shows up. And he’s like, “Oh yeah, that’s right. I did build my whole business in San Diego for years before people got the clue as we’re showing up.” So this is what I love. He gets creative. He goes, “Okay, wait a minute, hold on. Where are all the vets? Let’s start there.” And lo and behold there’s base nearby.And he goes, “Okay. And there’s a mall across the street. I bet they’re leaving and go into the mall and go to the fast food. I bet they’re there.” So he goes to the mall and starts walking around and find himself in a Five Guys burger joint and says, “What’s up guys. I would like to buy burgers for vets.”The manager, who I believe is a vet, was like, “That sounds cool. Why do you want to do this?” “Well, I feel like vets are underserved in the mortgage and financing space. They don’t know their options. They get out of service. They can do amazing things with great loan options. They don’t know about it and I want to educate them about it, but I’m not here to smash them on the head. I just want to buy them a burger, thank them for their service. And in the five to seven minutes, it takes for you to make their burger. I’m going to go ahead and give them some information. It’s not a condo sale. I’m not going to smash them. I’m just going to thank them and give them a flyer.” Dude, manager loved it.They set up their first Burgers and Benefits event. They brand it. They have a little A-frame popup. It’s sitting on a table and Bill himself stands at the door. And as people walk in, he opens the door for people and he asks, “Hey, by the way, are you a veteran or are you currently serving or a past veteran? And if you are, we want to buy you a free burger today.” Dude, love this. So he hangs out with these guys. He buys, I think he spent like $212 on burgers for vets, which first of all, is epic. They buy more burgers for vets, right, if anything. I love that. The second thing about this that I love, love, love is that he walked out of there with three pre-quals for vets. Now those results themselves are amazing, right?Can you spend two and a half hours or three hours at a burger place and get three pre-quals? You’re doing pretty dang good. But more than that, he got 18 vets that he bought burgers for that day that he got their contact information because he said, “Hey, look, I’m going to start up a series of quarterly home financing, kind of educational seminars. Would you want to be invited at some point? I need your email.” Fast forward, I think he ran this thing like four or five times, he got contact information to hundreds of vets. He got tons of loans from it, of course, but he also started to get real estate connections and partnerships. He started asking realtors to come because actually he was finding out that the vets have real estate questions. So now he’s inviting strategic partners that he wants to be with into this experience.And at the end of it all, besides all the loans, he has enough velocity now to go back to market and say, “Hey, we’re doing VA Home Buying Success seminars.” And he has a whole list of people who are interested, all because he wanted to buy burgers for vets. This is what I’m talking about. This is a great example of what do I care about, what does my community care about, and how can I be of service? Yes, I know, we do home loans. Great. Got it. But can you do something cool for something you care about?Does that make sense. Man, it makes a lot of sense to me. And these should be strategic, highly intentional marketing strategies, right? I’m going to go once a month and I’m going to buy burgers for vets. I know some people that have pivoted this stuff and local marketing and instead of just coming to the office in the morning, they go to a local Starbucks or coffee shop where they know first responders go, cops, firefighters, ambulance, you heard me say it before, they had stickers up and stuff on their laptops saying free lattes for first responders.That’s local marketing. That’s it. That’s what it is. It’s not bus stops. It’s not, guys. It’s about finding where you can serve your community. Let me give you another example. And I’m going to stick on veterans for a minute because it’s important. Man, a VA renovation loan is incredibly powerful, right? The fact that a vet can do an unlimited VA renovation loan at 100% financing and totally transformed the house that they’re looking to buy with zero down is incredibly cool. Now you pivot that and go, “How many nonprofits in my community support veterans?” I guarantee you, just Google that right now. In Africa, I don’t know, so much, but I appreciate you. I know this translates differently to what you’re doing out there. But there are so many nonprofits supporting veterans around us.Do they know? And are they helping educate their vets that there is a renovation loan available to them at 100% financing? I mean, how powerful is that for a disabled veteran? That’s insane. Because there’s a disabled veteran out there who can afford a payment, has a great job, but can’t get all that cash to retrofit the home to make it handicap accessible. Dude, that’s called being in service. Go talk to those nonprofits, share your experiences, share your knowledge, get them excited. I got a great one on local marketing. If you’re like me and you got kids in sports, right? So every Saturday, it’s sports, every Thursday night, it’s sports. It’s football, basketball, soccer, all the time. And so, one of the things that I think is so cool, just at the soccer field where it’s hot or the football field or whatever it is, is just bringing a big old popup tent.People can have shade. Yeah. It can have your brand on it and your face on it for all I care and how cool you are as a great mortgage professional. But are you just providing great shade and great like service and love for the people that you’re around at the soccer field dude, dude, that’s epic. That’s local marketing. What if you brought little waters for kids for the parents like me who are terrible parents get their kids water and they can give him a little Loan Depot water with your name on it or whatever, that’s killer. That’s being in service. That’s local marketing.This is the stuff that I think transforms our mindsets and get us as focused on how do we serve our community. I went back, let’s do the beach thing or the Back Bay thing, like a cleanup. Host a cleanup, go door-knock and host a cleanup saying, “Hey, this Sunday, if you have kids and they’re in school and they need community service points or whatever, it doesn’t matter. We want the Back Bay to be clean. We’re going to host a cleanup sponsored by you and Loan Depot.”First of all, you’re stoked because you’re getting your place clean, the Back Bay or the beach or whatever it is. That’s where you spend a lot of time and you love it, or the forest or whatever it is and you’re cleaning it up and then you’re inviting your community come alongside you, and of course, you strategically have it branded, you and Loan Depot, or whatever company you’re at. That makes sense. This is the stuff, dude, this is local marketing.I know, Ralph at my Newport office has a toy drive every year. And it’s incredibly cool. Him and a realtor partner up and they do a killer toy drive. Yes. It’s strategically branded. They go by and say, “Hey, we’re going to come by and get toys.” Yes, Loan Depot’s everywhere. Yes. His brand’s everywhere. And he does an amazing toy drive every Christmas. And it’s just super cool. That’s being in service and community. That’s why then you can circle back to those people and say, “Hey, can I get your email? Or can we connect on social real quick because I’m going to film the toys being dropped off to the kids, and I want you to see that. And so I’m going to share that video on my social channels.”I mean, so I’m talking about, this is life. This is how you lean into it. This is how you get out of your office, get off the internet, and go belly to belly with humans to make meaningful impact to build your influence and brands. They ever have a mortgage question they ever want to know about refinancing, especially whatever in this market and the refinance market right now and be out there all day long. All day long. Building relationships, showing what I’m doing. Does that make sense? All right. Let me give you a couple more things. I’ve given this example before and I talked about it in a previous live on the third place where it is a local marketing concept. Everyone has a third place they go to, how do you use that place to keep your influence going to build relationships?I’ve used bars and churches and charities and all that stuff. Great. So when you have a third place, let me pivot it a little differently because you can leverage a third place for this, but I’ll go differently. Consumer education events are by far an under leveraged tool in local marketing. There’s so much internet noise and it gets really confusing for a lot of people that if they just could get someone to talk to you that they would trust face to face that lives in their community, that they could actually ask questions on, it’d be a very powerful thing. And I think consumer education seminars are crucial. Well, I had a loan officer who said, “I don’t like presenting in public.” First of all, get over it. I understand, but okay, you still want success. You have an insecurity, a fear of presenting in public.What if someone says something that stumps you? What if nobody shows up, all that stuff. And so I asked him point blank, “What do you like doing? And we’re in the nest, right? We’re in the trust tree. He’s like, “Drinking with friends.” Okay, good. Good, fine. Be authentically you. I like to go and drink with friends at bars and whatever. And I’m like, “Okay, what about hosting a Think and Drink networking event? Go to local businesses around, bring in some real estate professionals and just go to your favorite bar that you’re out all the time, go to the owner and be like, “Hey, I want to hold a networking event here once a month called Think and Drink and I’ll try to bring in a strategic speaker or let somebody kind of share their stuff for a few minutes and then we’re just going to hang out.”So really it’s just a physical social networking event, like what we used to do before the internet thing. Right? Awesome idea. Build momentum around it. Go hang out. Now you’re kind of the mayor of this event. You’re coordinating it, inviting people, hanging out with everybody, but you’re not under the pressure to perform or get on stage or speak. You can go around one-to-one in relationships and communicate what you do and share your brand and share why you’re in the business without getting on the stage and getting stopped by somebody. Boom, do that. That’s killer local marketing. You can make a huge impact doing that all day long. I’ll throw out a couple of quick fire stuff and then kind of ran down with my final thoughts. Local community cleanups, local community yard sales, charity events, toys and food drives, those things right there have massive power.What do you do to appreciate your past customers? My favorite idea, it’s used all over the country by a lot of professionals, is just to pull down a movie theater on one random morning and rent out the entire theater and host a movie and invite all your past customers and all the real estate professionals you know in the community, and they can bring their past customers, and you just hang out with people. I love this for big movie premiers where there’s tons of energy around it and everyone’s excited. I recommend family-friendly movies, not necessarily The Joker., you do you. And just how do you build community? That’s local marketing, guys. That’s local marketing. You’re serving, you’re giving them value. Here’s a movie. Sure. Your commercial can play before it. And that is the trailer.Awesome. More power to ya. But you could film the whole thing. Show the families hanging out. You feel me on this? This is what local marketing is about. You don’t need a billboard. You just need to get where the people are and you need to operate from a position of service. All right?So here’s my final thoughts on this to get you out of your office and off the phone. Remember, local marketing is absolutely based on the three fundamentals. What do you care about? What gets you excited? What are you going to go talk about? When you go out to the community and you try to pull them into what you’re doing, what are you passionate about? It can be kids’ sports. It can be a forest or natural habitat. It can be certain charities or churches, or it can be a bike club where you guys all put on the tight spandex and you bike around. I see you. Whatever you care about. Ask the second question. What does my local market and community care about? Okay, what are they into? And then how can you be of service?That’s it. When you’re live and you have a coughing attack, you’ve got to go with it. I appreciate you guys hanging out. I hope this is helpful. This will be on YouTube if you want to visit later. Hope you have a great rest of your week. Take care.

Alec has the dynamic duo behind What’s a Mortgage, Adam Encinas and Minh Nguyen, on to talk about what they have done to grow their business using today’s trend. They speak on the consistency and the day to day motivation on what they do to progress with the changing industry.

Your snippet of this episode of the Modern Lending Podcast:

• To get value you have to give value
• Create content without any expectation
• No one every stops learning
• Don’t hide behind not doing, get out there and create content

Episode Transcribe

Alec:What’s up everybody.

Welcome to episode three of the Modern Lending podcast!

Man, for the first two, we really went high level. The third, I wanted to go right down into the trenches, in the loan warfare and talk about what people are doing today to drive their business. And I guarantee you, this episode is going to rock your socks. I’m bringing Adam Encinas and Minh Nguyen. They’re going to talk about how they have leveraged Facebook Live and social media to build tremendous customer influence. Right in the beginning, we’re going to go into their results. It’s going to blow your mind and it’s hopefully going to enlighten you into new ways to pursue consumers, new ways to originate loans, new ways to educate and delight our customers. So here we go. And remember, if this stuff brings you any value, come on, subscribe, like, share, spread the love. Here we go. Episode three.What’s up everybody, here we are back episode three of the Modern Lending podcast. Now we’re going to get real today. Real, real today. I’m pumped because if you guys have listened to episode zero, one and two, we hit with John Bianchi talked really high level. I had a chance to sit down and talk with my dad, which was really cool and intimate in the last episode. But now, man, I want to come out of the clouds and into the street. And so I’m really excited because with me are Adam Encinas and Minh Nguyen. Minh Nguyen’s the best name in the world by the way. It rhymes, it makes me happy every time I say it, and these guys are doing some incredible stuff and I want to get their history and I want to let them share their background.But first, I want to share what they’re doing right now and the results they’re getting right now. Because it blew my mind. I mean really when I got Adam, I mean, we’ve known each other for a long time. And when I finally saw what you were doing, I got zoomed in, I was like, “Oh my gosh, I need to pick my game up.” It was incredibly inspiring. And so I just want to break it down for a second. Let these guys share. These guys pivoted their business a few years ago and they’ll break it down in a second, but now they are social media advisors, educators, contributors. And so you guys run a social media channel?Adam Encinas:Yes.Alec:On Facebook?Minh Nguyen:Mm-hmm (affirmative).Alec:And it’s called, What’s a mortgage. So everyone right now is Googling it immediately. But so how many followers do you have on What’s a mortgage?Adam Encinas:So right now what’s a mortgage on Facebook there’s about 25,000 followers. Alec:25,000. Adam Encinas:And Instagram. Minh Nguyen:We’re going to hit 11,000 this week. Alec:That’s big dude. That’s big. That’s congrats. That’s huge. I have a thousand, so I’m really working hard.Adam Encinas:And YouTube just a thousand subscribers. Minh Nguyen:We just started YouTube and Instagram in 2019, yeah.Alec:2019, you started Instagram and YouTube and you’re already at 11,000 and almost a 1,000? Adam Encinas:Mm-hmm (affirmative).Alec:Okay. So people are already going, “Okay, that’s incredible. They obviously bought them from the Philippines and cheated.” But no, no, because if you did that, you wouldn’t have results. So let’s talk about the results. You’ve been running this for… how many years have you run the program, the show?Minh Nguyen:We started in 2017. Alec:Okay. So you got some length on it?Minh Nguyen:Mm-hmm (affirmative).Alec:And what are the results? How many leads are you getting a month?Adam Encinas:Right now it’s ranging anywhere between three and 500.Alec:Three and 500 leads a month.Adam Encinas:A month. Alec:How many views per episode? Because you go on Live every day. We’ll talk about this in a minute. You going Live every day. How many views? Minh Nguyen:It depends on the topic, but if it’s a topic that’s very interesting to everybody, it’s about 3,500, 4,000. If it’s a topic that’s not as popular about 2,500. Alec:So 2,500 to 3,500 views. What’s your most watched video? Do you have a most watched video? Adam Encinas:Yeah. That’s the verification of employment video. And that one is at 2.8 million views. Minh Nguyen:Yeah. Alec:Oh my gosh. And we’ll talk about paid advertising versus organic and all that stuff. And let these guys unpack this, but 2.8 million views, 35 to 2,500 views a day on the Live streams. And how long does the Live go for? Minh Nguyen:About 30, 45 minutes. Alec:30, 40… It’s incredible. And then the kicker, what I want everyone to hear, and then we’re going to start breaking this down is, how many transactions, closed transactions approximately in 2019 did you give to your real estate partners? Adam Encinas:Over a 100.Alec:It’s crazy. That’s crazy. No one’s doing that. No one’s doing that guys. [crosstalk 00:04:12], that you’re like, “Oh yeah, whatever. No big deal.” But so, okay. So we just hit the high notes. Let’s go to the real work and how this happened. I mean, so Minh and Adam, let’s start with either, whoever wants to jump in, but how did you get sucked into the mortgage world? How did that happen? We all have our unique story.Minh Nguyen:Well, I started summer, 2003. I remember it [crosstalk 00:04:31] yesterday. So I started summer of 2003, I actually started as a telemarketer taking calls and then I moved from there to junior processor and then to loan officer. And then, I met Adam and brought Adam in the game.Alec:Yeah, but you skipped a ton there. So you took calls like up calls?Minh Nguyen:Yeah. I did up call. Fax blasting, I [crosstalk 00:04:48]-Alec:Fax blasting. Minh Nguyen:Yes. Alec:That’s incredible. Minh Nguyen:[crosstalk 00:04:51] was fax blasting before it came completely illegal. And then-Alec:It’s 2003 dude, come on. It’s like-Minh Nguyen:So I was taking calls and then I was converting them. They were selling of course, [Netgams 00:05:03] into the countrywide fast and easy programs. And that’s how I started. And I started there and I was trustworthy. And so he moved me up from being a telemarketer to then junior processing and then processing and then I ran as operation. Alec:I like that though. I like that. I don’t think today… people miss that. You got trained as a processor. I think a lot of sales people today skip that. I was trained in shipping and processing and it’s like, “That was a gift. I learned how to do the real work.” When you become a loan officer, I think you’re better. Okay. So you got sucked in that way. What’d you do at Adam? Adam Encinas:So I was actually a personal banker at a bank, finishing my degree. Alec:Yes. That’s a great way to start in the industry too, right? Adam Encinas:Yeah. But it was scary times because this is 2007 to 2008 when the market had crashed. So I was working in banking still completing my degree and not understanding the magnitude of what was going on during the great recession. So what’s interesting enough is I had clients that were coming in and were putting six month holds on their checks. Alec:Oh, wow. Adam Encinas:And with the FDC, anything over a hundred thousand, you would see people only get 75 cents on the dollar, 50 cents on the dollar from there. So as I was finishing up school, Minh had an opportunity and said, “Hey, why don’t you come learn to do mortgages?” Alec:So it’s his fault. So he totally sucked you in.Adam Encinas:Totally his fault. Totally his fault. So this receding hairline is completely Minh’s fault. Alec:I think the mortgage industry just does that to us. Minh Nguyen:It just does. It just does.Alec:It’s part of life. Adam Encinas:So at that time, Minh was running a different operation and it was more working with-Minh Nguyen:REO agents. So I was an in-house lender at an REO company. Adam Encinas:Here you go. Minh Nguyen:So when the market changed, I moved home. Of course, like most people did. And I actually stayed doing loans. I just was persistent. I sat through the process and I became an in-house lender for two realtors that were getting, how many REOs were they getting a month? Adam Encinas:They had 300 listings month over month. [crosstalk 00:06:51].Alec:Wow. You were hustling. You were busy. Minh Nguyen:Yeah. Adam Encinas:And it was crazy times because we were closing loans at that time, 21 days or less. So with REO agents, we had to preapprove every single offer that came in and you’d see, 15, 20, 30 offers. And there was five of us sitting in-Alec:There’s some builder reps out there that are having the hot flashes because they recognize that they’re still living that game. So it’s brutal. Adam Encinas:Yeah. And we were a room half this size.Alec:This size?Adam Encinas:Five people.Alec:The Mello studio is not very large guys, we’re packed in here. That’s good. Five of you guys in this room. Adam Encinas:Yeah. So it was interesting times because here we are pre-approving for all the agents, all the open houses, all the listings that were coming through, we were finding the most qualified buyer that was bought in to close the transaction as quickly as possible because the REO agents were rated on how quickly they can close. They want to get these properties off the books and they would get more assets based on how quickly they would close. So that’s where we came in and preapprove our clients, found the most qualified one. They’d send it to the asset manager, get the offer in ESCO, we close it, onto the next. Alec:So you’re like a lot of us, you earned your stripes working with real estate professionals, managed to survive through the crisis like a lot of people did, which is incredibly cool because now, we’re getting new kids into the world that have never experienced the crisis and it’s fascinating. Right? Because there was a different mentality you had to have to survive those times.Minh Nguyen:And we call those, the Johnny-come-lately.Alec:And they’re doing awesome. And they’re learning from everybody and they’re incredible. We love it. Okay. So you’re doing traditional business, what I call traditional business. And I think, man, you said you had an epiphany that you wanted to be in more control.Minh Nguyen:Correct.Alec:Right? Because in a referral based environment and a lot of us and a lot of listeners are in referral based environments. I am dependent on my professional partners to send me customers.Minh Nguyen:Correct. Alec:And so we’ve all grew up in that world and you decided in early, what? What year was it?Minh Nguyen:So in 2008, after a couple of years with the REO guys, I went off on my own and I started recruiting loan officers. And of course from 2008, up until probably 16, 17, I had almost a hundred loan officers and everyone had a huge book of business with realtors. But then I saw in 2017, the lease the realtors were giving us started to dilute. And I’m like, “Okay, scared the shits [crosstalk 00:09:13].”Alec:What’s was happening though? I mean, because that’s really early to see the trend. A lot of people are just seeing the trend now, which is, “Hey, the business I’m getting from my referral partners, the quality’s less, or the customer’s already pre-called somewhere else and they’re coming in …” How’d you see this?Minh Nguyen:The costs of Zillow Partnerships started increasing and the quality of the leads started diluting because more and more of these online come, we start popping up out of the wood works. So when you partner with someone on Zillow, now you’re seeing the cost per lead get more and more expensive because now they’re not getting as many leads because what they are getting became more and more expensive. So that really shocked me like, “Okay, something’s about to happen. Okay, what do I do? Do I hire account execs to meet more realtors for me? Do I need more realtors or-Alec:Scale up. Yes.Minh Nguyen:… more loan officers? And the more realtors alone I was like, “That’s more and more a front cost for me.” Right?Alec:Yeah.Minh Nguyen:And then, so we’re like, “You know what, let’s find a way to get the consumers first.” So we started doing buyer seminars for realtors, but we weren’t getting enough people. And then-Alec:Yeah, it’s hard when you do the face to face. I mean, there’s a lot of loan officers today, they’re doing really amazing things with consumer education events, local events, at their churches or the charities, with the board, all that stuff. But you were looking to touch more people than that.Minh Nguyen:Yeah, because after you would talk to all these people at these seminars, they would go because they only met you that one time. So we started doing, “Let’s do it on the internet, whatever we’re teaching at seminars, let’s teach it on the internet.” And if we taught it more than once, because you can’t squeeze a buyer seminar, you’re trying to convince someone to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars into 45 minutes. How do I get to talk to these people on a more day to day basis? I know this, I know I’m not tall, skinny, [inaudible 00:11:00], but I know [crosstalk 00:11:02]-Alec:If they’re on YouTube now they’re like, “Wait a minute.” If they’re listening to the podcast [inaudible 00:11:05] like, “Oh no, I got to see this.” Minh Nguyen:So I know for sure that I’m a likable guy. As long as they get to know me for a little bit, I’m a likable guy. So how do I make sure they see me more consistently and let them trust me and fall in love with me, then I can turn the tides because [crosstalk 00:11:23]-Alec:Because of the relationship.Minh Nguyen:Correct.Alec:Yeah. You can build a relationship. So in 2017 you started going online?Minh Nguyen:Correct.Alec:And what’d you do?Minh Nguyen:I went online and I would go Live. I would do some videos. We had this thing on the weekend called Weekend Warrior Tip for Open Houses, right? So what you need to know if you’re going to go look at open houses. So we tried that method first, we tried going Live. We tried other videos. We tried talking more about real estate, more about loans. It was just a mixture of trial and error. And Andrew, who is one of my partners actually passed away last year, God rest his soul. But he would really pivot, “Okay, this was working, man. This wasn’t working, man.”Alec:So hold on, we’ve got to unpack this because everyone out there is listening is like, they heard the results. They’re like, “Okay man, these guys are running a daily show to educate consumers. They’re getting 3,500 views a day, 40 plus comments a day. And then they’re getting, 300 to 500 leads a month of people that are like, I need information. I’m ready to apply.” And then you go back in time to this earliest stages and you nailed the theme, which was, “I got to get into digital relationships with people. But then what I want everyone to hear and I want everyone to pay attention to as Minh continues to break this down and Adam jumps in, you weren’t afraid to fail. You tried different things and you listened to how the world was responding. I mean, what didn’t work? Minh Nguyen:What didn’t work?Alec:What failed?Minh Nguyen:Asking for the business too quick. Especially when people started talking about, “Okay, this type of lender, this type of lender.” they know you’re already steering it or, “This type of realtor, this type of realtor.” [crosstalk 00:13:00].Alec:Yes like, “He’s selling me, he’s selling me.”Minh Nguyen:He’s nagging everybody else. And they can feel-Adam Encinas:Nagging.Alec:Thank you. Thank you for that. The millennials are like, “Oh my gosh.”Minh Nguyen:They can feel the authenticity that you’re steering them or not. Andrew was like, Minh, why don’t you just tell them something, but don’t ask for anything. It’s like when you’re dating, when you know you want to be with a girl, you got to convince yourself, you don’t want to be with a girl, and then she’ll like you. She knows you have agendas. Alec:Look, we’re not supposed to give dating tips out. This is Lending, Modern Lending not Modern Dating.Minh Nguyen:But literally, I would have to convince myself, “You’re not going to ask for money. You’re not going to ask for business. You’re not going to ask for anything. You are going to give them something special that no one is telling them about mortgages and just walk away after you tell it to them.” Drop the mic and walk. Don’t do anything else after that. Alec:There’s so much misinformation about mortgages in the industry. Adam Encinas:Yes. And there’s tons of people who are confused about it, which is why when I first was exposed to your title of what’s a mortgage, I was like, “Wow, that couldn’t be any more basic and clear of what the messaging is.” And so did you have that name out of the hat? I mean, was that what you went with day one? Minh Nguyen:No. It was Win with Minh, all these other names.Alec:Win with Minh, yes.Minh Nguyen:It was all these other names. But when we talked about it… so when you’re posting something on social and especially if someone who’s never seen it before, and 50% of buyers are a first time home buyer entry-level buyers, they don’t understand what the word mortgage means, what the word escrow means. So some of our subtitles we’re not causing people to watch us because it’s not a subject they knew what the word meant, so what’s a mortgage? So we broke down basically, what a mortgage was.Alec:To me, watching this evolution of what guys have done and what’s happening around us right now, it’s super clear to me that there’s not one way to get to a consumer anymore. There’s multiple ways to get to a consumer. And so Adam, I want you to share a little bit more about the philosophy of what you guys have been doing over the years, because Minh was just hitting on it, which is, give value. What’s the philosophy of the program and show, what’s your ethos?Adam Encinas:So I think when I started watching the platform develop over time and you start seeing direct messages come in. And what was interesting is you learn that people really don’t understand the process and they’re in escrow asking questions that they should be asking their loan officer or realtor.Alec:And they’re not getting the answer.Adam Encinas:And they’re not getting clear answers. So I think the failure as us as originators is, we deal with the lingo and the terms on a day to day basis, but the people on the other side, they don’t understand what we’re talking about 75% of the time. So when I started seeing direct messages come in asking very basic questions and asking us to assist in explaining what a loan estimate was, just the basic fundamentals. And you see people were being taken advantage of. So What’s a mortgage evolve from, here we want to drive in and get business to, “Wait, we have an opportunity here to change the narrative in the industry. And that’s really to redefine the real estate and mortgage industry by empowering the consumer through creative content in education.” So it became a complete shift in let’s forget about business and let’s just start educating people. And it was a longterm play, creating content with no expectations. Alec:So let’s hit that longterm play. Let’s let some people understand. How long did you guys do this for? Before you started really hitting your stride? I know you guys want more, you’re hungry for more, which I love about you guys, which is you’re always trying to elevate your platform, but how long did you produce content where you got nothing? Minh Nguyen:So from 2017, up until probably March or April, 2018 is when we finally saw a pipe turn. Alec:So it was a year of daily effort?Minh Nguyen:Correct. Without getting anything back.Alec:Without getting nothing back.Minh Nguyen:So just maybe a lot of loans. You got to fund loans. You got to originate your own business on the side to pace yourself, to stay in business, to get to where you are today. Alec:See, no, that message is so overlooked. People are like… you were still doing what I would call traditional business with your partners, past customers while you were investing in a platform to educate consumers. And for a year, you showed up everyday, put your smiling face on and just put it out into the ethernet and [crosstalk 00:17:31].Minh Nguyen:I always go to open houses on the weekend to ask questions to consumers on what are their biggest fears or concerns. And that’s where I get most of my content from. And now of course, they reach out to me, so then I write down notes. But back then, when no one was watching us Live, I remember when we were going Live… you know my wife just recently started following me. She didn’t follow me for the last three years. Alec:Don’t give up, even if your wife’s not following you. By the way, by the way, I don’t think my wife’s listened to one, nothing of mine. She’s just like, “I live with you. I don’t need it again.”Minh Nguyen:My biggest fans were Adam’s whole family. Because they’re a pretty big family. They were the one watching. And so I wouldn’t get enough content. So to research open houses on the weekend to get the content, to teach, to barely see 19 people on, another 19 people, 10 of them are people you know. And to still go Live without that insecurity, is anyone watching, who’s watching me. And then it’s you know how hard it is to go Live when you feel there’s not an audience, you’re just talking to a booth.Alec:Okay. Yeah. So let’s break that down though. Let’s get real on this. There is an insecurity. I mean, it’s what’s holding a lot of people back, whether they’re insecure about their appearance, how they think their voice sounds, whatever the fear is. And going Live and no one’s watching. I mean, so I’ve tried to take a page from your guys’ book. And I’m learning, I’ve tried to put myself Live. And it is weird, When I’m watching 10 people are watching and then there’s one I’m like, “Oh.”Minh Nguyen:What did you say? Like, “Did I say something?”Alec:And then it’ll kick up to 20, 30s… but how did you deal with that? How did you deal going Live and put yourself out there, in such a vulnerable position for the internet because the Internet’s got trolls. They’re under the bridges, they come out, how did you deal with this?Minh Nguyen:One little tip to give you though as you go Live, when you go Live during the playoffs and basketball, that’s when it’s the hardest because no one wants to watch it. Alec:Okay. But I want to hit this insecurity thing because it’s huge. How did you deal with it? Minh Nguyen:How did I deal with it? Alec:You can’t say like, “I’m just immune to insecurities.” Minh Nguyen:This is how I dealt with insecurity. I know that there was no other route. I know that social media one day is going to be it. And if I don’t get on it right now, attack my fears right now, I’m going to be the one in the back of the bus, the last person. So no matter what the fear was, no matter… I still do it every day. And I think about like, “Hey, if I stopped today, someone will surpass me eventually.” So every day I did it with fear knowing… but the bigger fear was, “If I don’t do it, I will be out of the business soon.”Alec:Dude, I always wink at Mike, our little producer over here when the [eclipse 00:20:10] happen and that was fire, that’s totally the truth. And I think there’s a lot of people out there that underestimate the power of fear as a driver, as a motivator, to get you off your backside and actually into the work. I was afraid of failure and being a failure. And I don’t know, we can talk about therapy and unpack all that later. But I use that as a driver to force me through my insecurities, to force me to go to face to face and to build my business. And so man, that was right on dude. That was incredible. And Adam, you done a ton of video too. Minh Nguyen:Yeah. Alec:So how do you deal with it? Minh Nguyen:I think it’s just practice. You got to start somewhere. If I showed you Minh’s initial videos and my initial videos, you would laugh.Alec:Wait, wait. I got it. Okay. We got to figure out how to get those. Right now, “Play it.” And everyone can be like, “What?” And if there’s [crosstalk 00:21:00] watch it, so we’re going to show something, I’m going to figure out how to do it.Minh Nguyen:Oh my gosh. Oh my God [crosstalk 00:21:11]. Speaker 4:[inaudible 00:21:11].Minh Nguyen:I hate [inaudible 00:21:12]. Why the fuck [inaudible 00:21:13] use the videos off my fucking computer? [inaudible 00:21:18] need. Thank you. Have a good day. Why [crosstalk 00:21:21] say that?Alec:But that’s real. That’s real talk. People don’t realize that you had to practice. Your first Live was probably not as good as your last one. Minh Nguyen:No.Adam Encinas:Not at all. Minh Nguyen:My first one-Adam Encinas:It was funny. Alec:So how do you deal with them? Adam Encinas:So practice. It’s practice. And I think you need to have an observer, someone that doesn’t understand the mortgage industry, because that’s ultimately your consumer, that’s listening that you want to talk to.Alec:That’s helpful comment. We hope people hear that because now that everyone’s producing content… we did a video night with one of my teams and all the loan officers were producing a content to bank for the year-Adam Encinas:It’s awesome by the way.Alec:… it was super fun. But we didn’t have any non mortgage people there. And now that you said that I’m like, “You’re right. Having somebody who’s, non-biased, not in the mortgage industry, it could be like, “I don’t know what you’re talking about.” That could really help. Adam Encinas:So my brother would sit and we started in the back of my garage, believe it or not. And he would set up at the-Alec:That’s real.Adam Encinas:Yeah.Alec:Back of the garage.Adam Encinas:Back of the garage, to another office. And now we’re actually downstairs.Alec:I know. Well yeah, but just to see the garage.Adam Encinas:Right? So back of the garage and I have a camera with a mic just like this in front of me. And I would start talking to the camera and my brother would sit back there and say, “Cut.” I didn’t like the way that you said that. It makes no sense to me what you’re saying. I said, “Okay, let me try it a different way.” So then I would try it a different way. He goes, “No, no, no, no. That doesn’t work,-Alec:Oh my gosh.Adam Encinas:… tell me a story.” So then I would tell a story and he goes, “That’s it. When you tell a story, it becomes relatable. And when it becomes relatable, now you have that authenticity and now we can have a conversation. And when you started having the conversations, now you start to understand, okay, this is what people want to hear about. This is what they want to talk about.” And it takes practice. And it takes that observer to hear the tone of what you’re saying to stop going from, I’m selling something to I’m educating and adding value. Alec:But even sitting with somebody who’s close to as your brother and having them critique you, that can be nerve wracking for people. Minh Nguyen:Oh, definitely. Especially like, “I don’t know what that word means. I don’t know what this means.” Alec:Yeah. And you’re just getting constant feedback. Minh Nguyen:In your mind, you’re psyching yourself out because you already have this pre speech you’ve read-Alec:Yeah. You’re ready. You’re ready. Minh Nguyen:And then he was like, “That didn’t make sense to me. What does that mean?” So you’re demoralized and because this happens still even today and you’re recording or you’re doing Live and it’s hard to shift the conversation because, “Oh, this just didn’t make sense. Okay. How do I re-say it?” And now I’m recording. I’m going to triple my words because in your mind, you’ve been practicing one way for so long. Alec:See, I love Minh that you said that and hope everyone heard it. So I’m going to highlight it. You’re still learning today. It’s not like you figured it out. You’re always constantly figuring it out, even today on your lives. You just said it. You’re like, “Sometimes I’m like, “Oh wait, I got to rethink what I just said. It didn’t land the way I wanted it to. Did I educate in the right way?” That’s clutch for anybody listening. It’s this constant student mentality. Okay. I want to talk about consistency for a minute. We talked about that with John Bianchi on the podcast, but when did you use to have your Live shows? Because this, I think people underestimate.Minh Nguyen:I used to have my Lives at nine o’clock, 9:30 at night.Alec:Nine o’clock or 9:30 for 30, 45 minutes at night. Every day?Minh Nguyen:Every day. So pretty much I would go home, then for a couple of hours, head back to the studio and-Alec:The studio you mean Adam’s garage? Minh Nguyen:Adam’s garage? Alec:No, that’s real talk. I love that. Minh Nguyen:And my wife’s like… I thought in like, “She wasn’t following me. She was like, “What are you doing leaving your house in the middle of the night after …” I have to put my son down, right? Leave the house to go film and then come back. I did that every day for 45 minutes a day, Monday through Thursday.Alec:So first, for everyone that’s like, “This guy’s a maniac.” How did you pick the timeframe that [crosstalk 00:25:09].Minh Nguyen:WE trial and error, but I realized, “You know what, what time people go to bed? After they put their kids down, that’s the best time they’re going to listen.” They have time to watch it. And I knew if they watched me at nine, it’s on and cracking and something’s going to go down. Because if they watch me into the night and if you look at our Facebook analytics, our most active time was 11:00 PM to one in the morning on Messenger. Our most active time on social was from 11:00 PM to one. Think about, if you’re talking to someone around 11 or 11 [crosstalk 00:25:41] one in the morning-Alec:Yeah, you’re dating. You’re in.Minh Nguyen:It’s like that state farm commercial, when they’re trying to talk in the middle of the night about insurance, they’re ready to rock and roll or they would just be a casual person.Alec:So I love the messaging on that and the consistency on that. And some people in their head are like, “Well, I can’t do it from nine to 10 o’clock at night.” And we’re not trying to press on you that that’s how to do it. What I want you to hear in that message guys is that consistency, that the willpower to make it happen every day, regardless of family and other things that are pulling on your time, it’s incredibly cool to hear. And then you actually pivoted it recently, right? You’re now in noon.Minh Nguyen:12:30, 12:30, 12:45.Alec:And learning what’s happening in that space. Minh Nguyen:Correct. Alec:Anything fascinating there?Minh Nguyen:Yes. I know when you do it at 12:30 and they’re willing to talk to you through the lunch period-Alec:They’re active.Minh Nguyen:They’re active. So I was trying to find a gravel way where if they’re willing to sacrifice something to still be with you, the relationship, they want to be with you.Alec:Well, you to think about it. If you work a job and you’re normally busy in your job and you’re actually wanting to buy a home, the chances are you’re on your phone at lunch looking to try to buy a home. I mean, if you’re focused, it’s a good comment. If you’re in and they’re active, they’re probably going to be on the phone at lunch. Minh Nguyen:Yeah. So there is a strategy behind that too. So when they do want to talk, I only want to talk to them from one to four, because if they’re willing to take a break during lunch, they’re real.Alec:They’re super serious. Minh Nguyen:But if they only want to talk just during lunchtime, they try to get you off the phone quick too.Alec:See, I love these learnings. These were not established when you started this program. And you should learn this all the time, anytime. Like, “[crosstalk 00:27:19] talk to me, please.” Now you’re like, “I only talk to leads from one to four because I know they’re serious. They want to take a break.” Adam what other learnings have you guys had over the years on this program and stepping out into the space.Adam Encinas:It’s really hard because you have to be bold. And I think when you talk about consistency, it’s the hardest thing to do, is every day you have that challenge, right? “Do they really want to hear me talk today? Do they really want to hear me talk about this?” Alec:The insecurities chirping, just chirping.Adam Encinas:What else do I have to talk about? And-Alec:Oh, let’s talk about content. What else do I have to talk about? I have people who are not doing video at all and who are like, “I have nothing to talk about.” Let alone every day, how do you come up with what to talk about?Adam Encinas:Whiteboard sessions, lots of whiteboard sessions. You sit there, we map out content a quarter in advance, but it wasn’t always like that. It used to be days in advance. Then there was a weekend advance, a month and now, we’re already working on second quarter content.Alec:See, I love the progression though. I hope everyone hears it. It didn’t start out with like, “I’m going to build a quarter of content today.” It was like, “What are we going to do tomorrow?” And then over time, it evolved and got more… Adam Encinas:And it started with an easel, like markers-Alec:Straight up with markers and pencils.Adam Encinas:Markers, and drawings.Alec:Social media guy is about easels and markers. Minh Nguyen:So we have our content pre-set for us that we build out. And then if current event stuff hits, we-Alec:You can pivot. Minh Nguyen:Yes.Alec:Yeah, for sure. But you’re being thoughtful a quarter in advance. And I assume you’re watching what contents landing and staying fluid to the market. Adam Encinas:Right. Because it’s ever evolving. Alec:Right. Adam Encinas:We have changes daily in the industry. Alec:Oh man, how fascinating. I share this story because you guys focus a lot on first time home buyers, a lot on people buying homes and purchase business. And then the rate rally happened and you guys pivoted to a refinance message, right? Minh Nguyen:Right. Alec:And what happened? Adam Encinas:We started getting refinances.Alec:Weird. Yeah. But I love that fluidity to the market. You’re listening and learning. You’re not so rigid that… so that’s where television programming it’s so blocked. It’s so rigid. It’s like they were showing Buffy the Vampire Slayer again. It’s like, “Oh God.” But you guys are like, “Hey, the market moved, time to change the message.” And so I would love for you guys to share even more about what your content strategy is and go a little deeper to help people who are brand new to this topic of content strategy. Minh Nguyen:I think the first thing we decided is what type of consumers do we want to deal with? Alec:You reverse engineering. Yeah. Very smart. Minh Nguyen:Correct. So when you decide that, and then you figure out the type of borrowers, do you want to deal with a lot of borrowers or not that many borrowers, but bigger loan amounts, you got to decide the type of borrowers you want to deal with. And then you can just test what… in the beginning, we wanted credit repair, a hundred percent financing, but we were combing through a lot to get a little and we would have to comb through so much more, but to scale it, we couldn’t do it at that model. So then we started going after a different type of clientele and we couldn’t take it to the next level where we were working at because of that type of clientele and that’s why we’re here. Alec:I love you guys. It’s been fascinating for me. I’ve learned a ton. What are you still learning? What are you guys still trying to figure out? Adam Encinas:Oh my gosh. Alec:Because I gave all those results and we’re like, “Oh, these guys must have it. They’re done. They figured it out. Good for them.” Minh Nguyen:The funnel right now. So we learned recently we add value and now we looked at our new videos for compared to our number one banger video, a pretty good percentage of people watched it. But our new videos has even a higher percentage, but so we’re learning how much video to play on the first video, right? How much video to play on a second video? “Okay. If they watch over 50%, we should play this. If they watch over 75% …” We’re trying to go, “Okay, instead of doing a chat bar, we can do lead forms now because they watched a hundred percent.” How do we start scaling this depending on how much they watch. If they do it under 50% and they reach out, we want to give them the girlfriend experience. Right? Really be hands on it because they don’t love us yet, but they watch over a certain percentage, we can automate it. So that’s what we’re trying to figure out the touch and go until we figure out the recipe. Alec:I love the learnings guys. I mean, I think that is a message for everybody. It’s like, “Guys, you don’t need to have a quarter content strategy. You don’t need to know what you’re going to eat. You just need to start playing and be a student and pay attention and be willing to learn all the time and never feel you’ve landed and you’ve made it and now you don’t have to learn anymore.” I think that message is just crucial for anybody listening because it is a long game and you guys are playing the long game. And I want to hit this again. I want you guys to go deeper on it. Your ethos, your strategy is give value. I think some people might feel like that’s risky. Like, “I’m giving away-Adam Encinas:Totally.Alec:… all the value and then what if they don’t use me?” Right. You told them all the strategies and all the tips, and then they didn’t call you. How do you guys deal with that mentality? And what have you discovered after you’ve gone all in, on this education based? Adam Encinas:I think for me, when we started seeing scenarios come through and we would have an opportunity to where a client [crosstalk 00:32:28].Alec:[crosstalk 00:32:28] for an opportunity. Yeah.Adam Encinas:You have a client that’s an escrow and they’re three weeks from closing up. But then you get the loan estimate and you’re like, “You know what? You’re actually getting a good deal.” So I think my dad says it best, “You can’t afford to make a deal unless you can afford to walk away from a deal.” So in these scenarios, you have a loan officer with a family behind the scenes. So you have to have a little bit of empathy and understand that they worked probably really hard for that client and that client has a relationship with them. And you don’t want to jeopardize that for your own bottom line. It’s very difficult to do though. Alec:I know. I want to unpack this more because people are very cut throat on our industry. Adam Encinas:Correct. Alec:And you’re saying, I want everybody to hear this. You’re doing your work, you’re putting out content, you’re educating people. And then inevitably, people come to you that have a loan in progress with an LE. And they ask you to review it because they feel like they don’t trust you.Adam Encinas:Absolutely. Yes. Alec:And so most people would be like, “Absolutely. I’m going to take all these deals. I’m going to take them from everybody.” How do you guys handle it? Adam Encinas:Well, then you’re not changing the narrative on the industry. Because that person on the other side gave that consumer a good deal and they probably did good business and they probably educated the consumer and they just want a little bit of reassurance. On the flip side-Alec:Sometimes there’s bad actors.Adam Encinas:There’s bad. Yeah. Alec:For sure. Adam Encinas:You start seeing you’re a percent and a half off of what the market is today. And it’s just because you don’t understand or know. And the person on the other side is trying to maximize their bottom line at the expense of you paying an extra $300. Alec:Man, you talk a lot about that in a lot of content you do, which is just bringing transparency back. And so, pivoting on Adam’s comment. How many LEs do you think you guys review a month? Minh Nguyen:Did we just review three this week? Alec:Three this week?Minh Nguyen:Yeah. If they’re a deepened escrow, we tell them, “Hey, this is what they should offer you, so ask for this.” And then if they know, tell them you’re talking to another loan officer and then give them our information.Alec:You’re trying to educate them. Minh Nguyen:Normally they’ll meet or match the deal but if the loan is locked and it’s too late-Alec:[crosstalk 00:34:23].Minh Nguyen:If they pull the deed back on a purchase, it would ruin our brand because now we’re rushed to try to… and it sucks for other people who actually-Alec:Work hard.Minh Nguyen:Worked hard, no, the loans that we do have, they get pushed aside to move this one forward when they’re waiting to close on time too. And we started running that because in the beginning, everything you said, we went through the same mistake. We’re like, “Give me, give me, give me, give me, give me, give me, give me, give me.”Alec:Yes, I got it. I got it. Minh Nguyen:And then we realized we’re just putting ourselves in jeopardy, putting our brand in jeopardy in the day for what? We’re tripping over dollars to pick up pennies. Alec:Yeah. I hope everyone hears this. This is what living in an abundance mindset really looks like, what these guys are doing. Because me as a competitor, I’m like, “Oh, I want that deal and I want to help the customer.” But you guys are taking it from a stance of, “Look, we’re here to educate and support.” If someone comes to you with an LE, you’re doing your best to coach them, giving them transparency to what the market really is like. And then letting them go back to their loan officer and close the deal. Adam Encinas:You want to know the craziest thing though? Alec:I’m ready. Adam Encinas:So rates just dropped the last three days, right? So if we’re not catching them on the purchase, they’re reaching back out to us for the refi.Alec:Okay. So I will hit that point. Man, even when I was originating, when I would get a competitive deal and someone would come in with an offer and they were down the line an escrow, sometimes the best thing you can do as a professional is to give them reassurance. “This is a great deal. Maybe shave that off, but this is a good deal. You should take this deal.” I got more referrals from those customers over time-Adam Encinas:Absolutely.Alec:… because I’d still put them in my database. I’d still talk to them like they were one of my past customers because I served them, man, that is the truth. That has always been the truth. I hope everyone hears that because that’s incredible. It’s not just about cutthroat in the industry. It’s about serving and changing the narrative, right?So we’ve got a little bit time left. And I think well, I want to spend another 10, 15 minutes on this topic because I think it’ll be helpful. And I ask everybody to unpack this for people. If you were mentoring an originator today in the industry who let’s say they came in post-crisis or they lived through the crisis and they’re a little traditional still, and they’re looking at this change and they’re looking at social media and they hear your numbers and they’re like, “I’m getting left behind. I could never do that. How could I ever put a show on, I can’t do any of this stuff.” Let’s give some advice and some feedback to these people.Minh Nguyen:Unless you want to go somewhere else, man?Adam Encinas:You want to go first? You go ahead and go first. Minh Nguyen:So a lot of loan officers aren’t reaching out, though the first thing they ask me is what camera do you use? What editing do you use?Alec:Oh, I love this. Yes they do. So they’re seeing you-Minh Nguyen:I was going to go there.Alec:Industry professionals are seeing you, of course. Minh Nguyen:Correct. Alec:And so they’re asking you the fundamentals of cameras and microphones.Minh Nguyen:Correct. So what I tell them is this. So because of what they said, and to also, “Wow, you have a team of people. Well, I had a team, he about to sacrifice a lot.” And even though-Alec:I was in a garage, down by the river.Minh Nguyen:Whatever, I did fund right to pay my bills, the extra money was to support these people. So it’s like, I earned my stripes to have people do stuff for me. But even now, when I go Live on Instagram, Tuesday, Thursdays at 12:30, plug, right? I only use my phone, when I shoot a lot of our daily content now, I call it our off one topics, I only use my phone to videotape. And I plug a little microphone under here and that’s it. So to show the other loan officers who are watching me, “You don’t need all these fancy gear. You just need a phone and you just need to just do it.” So before it was like, “Okay, you need this.” And when you do that, you start overthinking. It’s like you’re next in line to sing karaoke and right before you sing, you’re rehearsing the song or you’re psyching yourself out and now you don’t want to go on stage. So when you start getting camera equipment, editing tools, all these things, “Okay, when the sun hits here, then it will be perfect. When this is this, this will be perfect.”Alec:So true.Minh Nguyen:Just go on camera and do it. Sometimes there’s blurriness in my pictures, but the message that is delivered… One video I just did recently, right, was I talked about loan officers compensation. That’s not a subject any loan officer wants to talk about, it was this blurry background. But because I told this person, I sent them message out. Someone reached out to us, changed lenders because his lender or her lender, wouldn’t tell her what their compensation was. And we talked about it and I even said it right on the message, “This is my compensation.” And she’s like, “Wow.” And then she reached out to us. But the background was horrible, you just got to do it. Alec:So I got to hit that point again. I want everyone to hear it, man. It’s so true. Showing up is more important. And showing up with authenticity is more important than having a mass produced full production team behind you, hammering out this content. I think we’re so over marketed too as humans. So over marketed too that we’re just craving fresh air. And sometimes a guy in his phone… I even seen you with your kids in the background. Just a real human being spitting truth goes so much deeper sometimes than just the produced stuff. So you’re just like, “Hey, just put the phone and start filming.”Minh Nguyen:So this holiday 2019, I just swapped back to phone. I only want to go Live, but when I did even my prerecorded stuff that we edit and my Instagram Live, I only use my phone now because like you said, we market it so much that when it doesn’t look like it’s a professional film, people are actually going to… especially when you do so many videos, it’s so hard to come up with a new hook. Alec:It’s white noise. Minh Nguyen:If the video… it doesn’t look professional, it gives you a couple extra seconds to win them over. Alec:I love it. Minh Nguyen:But when you do that, “Hey guys, have you heard the top 10 things?” Oh, this is an ad. Alec:This is an ad, swipe. Adam Encinas:And can I say one more thing? Alec:Yeah. Adam Encinas:When you’re doing a video and a high production video, nobody cares what car you drive. Alec:Oh, come on. I got to show my Bentley. Adam Encinas:No.Alec:I got to show it.Adam Encinas:That stuff on social, it doesn’t work. And I love what Minh says is, all you need is your phone. What people use is, “I need this equipment. I need this person. I need to do this, this, this, this.” They’re just hiding behind not wanting to do it. That’s the real point. Alec:When they’re just focusing on lighting [crosstalk 00:41:05].Adam Encinas:When they’re focusing on this and that and what studio set up I have or what does my wall look like? You’re just bearing the reality. You don’t want to press play.Alec:And you’re just distracting yourself with all the other stuff. Adam Encinas:And you got to just get your phone, press play, and start. And that’s the biggest thing. I’m happy to share initial videos that both of us had and people will laugh. But what happens is once you have that consistency, and once you start figuring out what message works with the people that you want to talk to, now you’ll have that rhythm. And when you have that rhythm, now you can start connecting with people. And that’s what we want to do. That’s what social media is for, it’s a connector.Alec:There’s a couple of core message that I just want to echo as we wrap down. Number one, I’m always impressed with consistency. It’s so hard to do. At the same time, consistency without learning is pointless because you can show up every day, but if you’re not paying attention to the results, to the feedback, bringing somebody into the room with you to give you honest, authentic feedback that I don’t know what that word means. If you’re not learning, then showing up every day, you never get better. You never get stronger. And what you guys have proven is that when you do both, incredible things happen. Man, I love yourself deprecation of like, “I know I’m not Brad Pitt and blah, blah, blah.” But you put yourself out there in a very vulnerable place, oh my God, people respond. You film a video off your phone with your kid in the background, oh my gosh, people respond. You talk about your own compensation, which is a taboo topic and oh my gosh, people respond. This to me is such a story of proving out what you guys are preaching, which is amazing. So core message is, just do it. Be a learner. What else would you say Adam?Adam Encinas:I think the hardest thing is… actually let me change it. If I told you for a year, if you put up one piece of content of value per week and in a year. Alec:So 52 things.Adam Encinas:52 things. If you did it once a week and put it on Instagram and put it on Facebook and after a year, you will be able to at least get five transactions a month and automate your business, would you do it? Alec:Yeah. Five transactions to the math. Yeah. I think [crosstalk 00:43:25] could make sense.Adam Encinas:60 transactions just from social media, would you do it? Alec:And this is where everyone freezes up. Adam Encinas:Yes I would. But then they don’t press play. So the biggest thing is, just start, get a whiteboard, start easy, write some topics down that you want to start [crosstalk 00:43:41]. Alec:I want to hit this whiteboard topic. So I’ve done this with other people. I’ve seen you do it Live. And I’ve been a student of you guys too. I sat down at the film night with a bunch of loan officers and I went around and said, “What videos are you going to do tonight?” And they all had two, or three or four. And I was like, “Okay, that’s good. That’s good. That’ll be done in four minutes. We’re going to do the rest of the hour.” And we just did a simple exercise, which was, pulled up a whiteboard, had to do a piece of paper, there was no whiteboard there. And I said, “Okay, what are the 10 to 12 things first time home buyers need to know?” That was all I asked. And immediately everyone started spitting off, how much down do I need? What’s PITI, what the fees and rate’s going to be? What determines the APR? What is an APR. And we just bang, bang, bang, bang. We put down 18 topics in five minutes. And everyone was like, “Oh, it was that easy?” Yeah, sometimes it’s that easy. The hard part to your guys’ saying is to deal with insecurity. So then one more time. So everyone can hear this at the end here. How do you fight that demon? How do you get over yourself? How do you put yourself out there and be vulnerable when no one’s watching because I mean, you did that. You were Live and it’s like, crickets, your friends are on. How did you deal with that? How did you get through it? What inspiration can you give to somebody else who’s terrified of that?Minh Nguyen:If you’re terrified of going Live or going on social media-Alec:To start a video in general, yeah. Minh Nguyen:Think about, would you rather spend 10 minutes on a camera or go door knocking for two or three hours with a realtor or sit at an open house for four hours? That’s my first thing. And the second thing is, if you don’t do it, these online lenders will gobble you up and then you have nothing. I started rigiding all over again because after my team and I separated, I started in 2017 all over again originating. I know the feeling.Alec:Yeah, we didn’t even talk about that, but you rebirthed yourself [crosstalk 00:45:44] full Phoenix. Minh Nguyen:And literally I went door knocking with realtors. I went to open houses. I was pretty much doing a lot of the mundane things that everyone else is doing. But what I got out of it was so little and as soon as I even got it, I was just competing against another lender who had had a better deal because I didn’t bring value. So to get value, you have to give value. And that was my big thing. Alec:That’s that’s another golden nugget. How has that played out? Because you guys do give a ton of value now. You don’t even ask really on your shows for leads. How does it play out? Minh Nguyen:It plays out well because people from Santa Barbara are driving down to see us. People are driving through traffic for two hours to come see us because they know the value that we brought them, gave them that clarity to understand What’s a mortgage. Alec:It’s incredible. Minh Nguyen:I got one tip for anyone [crosstalk 00:46:45].Alec:I’m in. I was about to close, but you can tip it up.Minh Nguyen:So one tip, if you are afraid or there’s something holding you back, the best way to start talking and start talking about mortgages, have someone interview you and ask you the questions. So when you’re not looking directly at the camera, have them stand behind the camera and have them interview you and ask you questions?Alec:That’s a killer tip. Minh Nguyen:And that right there will build your momentum to getting over the fear of going Live or doing any recording. Alec:That’s a killer tip. Adam Encinas:That’s good. Alec:If someone doesn’t say to the end, they’re going to miss the actual gold money. So Adam, Minh, thank you guys. You’re clearly tip of the spear, leading our industry into a new way to originate by building direct to consumer influence at scale through creative content and through education. And I hope that everyone hears this understands that there are a thousand ways to meet customers, but if you’re not meeting them online at the top of the sales cycle, you’re putting the future of your career in jeopardy. Because if you’re not building brand and influence with customers directly, then they’re doing it with somebody else, likely What’s a mortgage, so I’d get there. All right, guys, we’re going to close down for today. Thanks everybody for listening and tuning in, remember, please subscribe and share. Spread the love. Take care everybody. We’re out.

Feel free to use the google anytime on this topic, but these 7 elements stand out to me as foundational truths required to build a strong personal brand.

In this Edition of LiveTime with Alec:

• The key foundations for your personal brand
• How these elements can help motivate your content
• What is differentiates you
• How are you using the tools in your pocket to its fullest extent

Episode Transcribe

What’s up, everybody?

Welcome. Hi, we’re going live again, once a week.

But man, I’m talking about some fun stuff today. I’m really excited to have you guys join us. Thank you for guys on LinkedIn. What’s up telling my friends on Facebook. Drop a comment. Let me know what’s up, where you’re at. How are you doing today? I love the chance to talk to you as we talk about branding. And I want to set the stage real quick. For those of you that don’t know, these things also are live across multiple platforms, but they also get recorded on my YouTube channel and we’re live there too, so that we can always go back and revisit it if it’s something that adds value to your life. On the topic of branding today, man, it’s such a non negotiable and I want to kind of break down why I feel that way.And then kind of go into what I found to be the seven crucial elements of a successful personal brand. And let’s just kind of unpack why we need those for a second. First, it should be self evident, but if you are in kind of referral-based sales or any kind of service oriented sales and your job … Hey, good morning, Melissa. Good morning, Dottie … and your job is to generate business and opportunity for yourself, you have to have a brand. Now a great company brand will absolutely support and affirm stand up your personal brand. I think they actually are a one-two punch combo, but we can go into that later. On the branding side, though, on the personal branding side, it is so crucial. And here’s two examples. If you are in referral-based sales and you grow your business through community and partnerships, someone’s going to refer you a customer.And it’s really simple in the mortgage space because that’s kind of how we’ve raised to get business, from our real estate partners and our home builder partners. They’re going to Google you. They’re going to look you up and they’re going to make a judgment on you based on the brand that shows up online. Now they got some good referral from you, right? Somebody said, you’re amazing at what you do, but now they’re going to look it up and see if it’s true. And you got an AB test, right? You got one guy or gal who, when they get Googled, they show up with five star reviews, 700 Yelp reviews. They look incredible, great headshot. There’s a video right there that pops up for seven tricks and tips for first-time home buyers. And it’s all there. The next person that they Google and look up and nothing shows up, or somebody else shows up who you have the same name as. Hi, Tammy. Thanks.So that happens and that’s true. You’re losing credibility. you’re losing credibility. Yes, you could try to regain it back and talk to the customer and be like, “No, look, I’m really amazing. I promise,” but they’ve already judged you, man. They’ve already judged you. Malcolm Gladwell’s book, Blink, read it. We make snap judgements as humans. This is what we like to do. So you got to show up, you got to have a brand that represents yourself. You got to have a brand you’re proud of so that you can build more relationship and a better foundation with the customers that are looking to work with you. So we kind of covered that. So let’s go through the elements of a personal brand. And I think that as you’re looking at what content to produce, if you’re looking at how to position yourself online, first of all, the greatest advantage of the world is that your brand can be curated.You can choose what to show and what to post. This is an amazing advantage. And if you don’t like the video, you can delete it and do another one, which is another amazing advantage. So because all of this stuff’s at your fingertips, we’re going to break down the seven elements that are really, really important when you’re building stuff. All right. You with me? Give me a, “Hallelujah.” Here we go. We’ve got people on Facebook. I love it. All right.Number one, authenticity. Authenticity is arguably one of the most important foundations for a personal brand, but let’s unpack what that means because a lot of people hear that word and they’re like, “Okay. Yeah, authenticity. Thanks, Alec.” And by the way, the seven elements, I’m going to show you guys, you can Google “strong elements of a personal brand” and you’ll get tons of thought leaders, probably people smarter than me, that have spent years and years and years on this that can deliver to you like bang, bang, bang, bang. It’s part of my journey in discovering this. I did the same thing, research, understanding. The seven that I picked are ones that really resonated with me. There might be others that resonate with you. God bless.All right, authenticity. This is like a “you have it or you don’t” type of thing … Hi, Veronica. Thanks for the comment … Either you have it or you don’t. And so when you talk about authenticity, the first thing that I like to kind of follow up on is don’t hide who you really are and what you really care about. As salespeople, we’re typically pretty good at being chameleons. You feel me? Depending on what the customer wants, we kind of line up differently and we kind of listen and posture and we kind of chameleon that aspect of it. But on a brand, you can’t do that. You can’t chameleon it. And you can’t fake it. There are so many people that try to fake the success lifestyle.I’ll use a silly example. The Instagram “weblebrities.” They’re just posting pictures at the beach and they’re on the vacation, they’re leaning on a Maserati, which isn’t their car. And they’re like, “Oh, the influencer life.” That stuff is obviously posturing. We all could feel it. We’re like, “Oh,” and nobody likes an inauthentic person, when you’re looking for advice on financing or whatever solution you provide to your customers. No one wants that. So the first thing you got to ask yourself on any piece of content you do, any article you write, picture that goes out, quote, inspirational video, whatever, are you being authentic to yourself?I’ll give you another example. How many of you see people online and you’re like, “Ew. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it.” Well, then I’m not going to do that because I hate people that do that online. They’re not authentic to you. Maybe they’re being authentic to themselves. But when you step out, be authentic to yourself and you’ll be shocked and surprised by how many people can resonate with that. Because, man, aren’t we over marketed too? Aren’t we hyper marketed to all the time? And isn’t it annoying because we’re just like, “Stop marketing to me. Just stop smashing me in the face with ads and banners and I’m over it. It’s not selling me.” Number one, authenticity.Number two, boom. Consistency. It’s easier to be authentic than it is to be consistent. And that is going to be hard for people to hear but consistency is crucial. Give you an example. I did a hundred videos in a hundred days. That was really hard to be consistent, to continually make a video, get it ready, post it every single day for a hundred days. It stretched me massively. But those kinds of things lead to massive results. Without my a hundred videos, I wouldn’t be going live once a week. I wouldn’t be having my Modern Lending podcast. All that stuff wouldn’t happen. So consistency drives huge results.I’ll give you another story about it. I firmly believe that in prospecting referral partners for business, there is only one thing that can lead to your success. If you’re in sales, there’s only one thing that could lead to your success. And I’ll give you the example in mortgage, in my background. When I would go talk to real estate professionals and ask them for business, they’re not going to test me to see if I’m any good, because they’re relying on me to close a loan for their customers so that they can get them into a house and they can get paid themselves. They’re not just going to be like, “Yeah, sure. I like you showed up and you had a good one-liner and I liked your flyer. Here’s the deal.” Doesn’t happen. It’s never going to happen that way.But what happens is through consistency, I can prove my worth. I can prove that I will show up for them. I can prove that I am reliable and trustworthy through consistency. I’ll give you a micro strategy that always worked well for me. And it’s a good tie in to consistency. So on Thursdays and Fridays, we would have broker preview and that means people would go and hold houses open for other real estate professionals. And so I would show up. Walking in there all pumped up, ready to go. And I always had one line that I typically would use, which is, “Hey, by the way, is this house going to be open for the general public on the weekends?” And when they would say, “What? Yeah,” or, “Why you’re asking?” Yes, I would always say, “Because I work on the weekends and I was hoping to swing by again.” “Okay, weirdo.”But subconsciously, I planted the seed that I work on weekends … “I like your flyer.” Thanks, Daniel … I subconsciously planted the reality that I work weekends. And then guess? What I would show up. Shocker. You’d show up and surprise, you’re building consistency and trust and reliability. You’re saying you’re going to do something and then you do it. So for your brand to be powerful, to have a good personal brand, you have to be consistently showing up. That means your content strategy, which is just a marketing strategy, it’s a fun word, you got to be executing. And if that’s really hard, you need help. Get accountability, get a partner, get a friend, work for me and I’ll kick your butt, and we’ll be consistent together.All right. Number three. One, two, authenticity, consistency. Number three, you, your story. Now this is different than being authentic. This is what makes you, you. These are your hardships, your tribulations, your story, this is what you have gone through in your life that makes you unique and special and best-served to showcase that to the world. It matters. I’ve hit this before on other … I almost said episodes. This is a show. That’s terrible. I know. Sometimes I look in the mirror and I’m like, “You’re blowing it.” So the story. You matter, your story matters. And it’s rocket fuel to your personal brand. Do not hide from it. There are plenty of people that are hiding from their story and either they’re embarrassed about it or they don’t think it’s good, or they think that people are going to judge them or whatever it is.But I’m telling you right now, that’s not the truth. They want to engage with your personal story. It absolutely empowers your brand because it humanizes you … And Netflix is watching. Everybody’s watching. Thanks, Tammy. I will say this … This is a show. Chaz, I appreciate you. I guess I’m a show. There you go. A dancing monkey for everybody’s enjoyment … Okay. Back on topic. Your story. So it matters. I mentioned the comment before that we were over marketed to. We are. It’s terrible. It’s a terrible experience. We don’t like it. We’re so jaded to it. We’re so bombarded with marketing. Guess what cuts through that? A human. Humanize your brand. Lean into the story, lean into the hardships you’ve had, and you will be absolutely rocked and surprised by how many people respond to that in amazing way. Your story matters. Weave it into your brand. Tell it to the world. It’s going to help build a huge foundation for your success.All right. So number one, authenticity. Number two, consistency. Number three, your story. Number four, your expertise. This is a fun one because if you’re authentic and consistent and you have a good story, but you’re not good at what you do, you’ve got a problem. So showcase and show me your expertise. I challenge people all the time on this. I’m going to use my same story I’ve used before, but it’s going to land for you so just come on the ride. If you, as a mortgage professional, want to be known and want to have a brand identity as an educator, as someone who educates their customers on all of their options and I look you up online and I see nothing that shows me that you are an educator, I don’t see you as an educator. Let’s go break it down.If you’re an educator, you should have a video series on YouTube, educating consumers about a variety of topics. You should have articles you write or blog on LinkedIn or whatever platform you want to pick and showcase your expertise. I want to see videos on my social media feed of you solving problems for your customers because of your expertise. I want to see you write articles that are out in publications, mortgage publications to showcase your expertise. “Now, Alec, this sounds hard.” Of course, I’m not saying you need to go immediately get published.But if I see a bunch of stuff online when I Google you, I’m going to respect you more, I’m going to recognize your expertise and I’ll be more attached or connected to your brand. So again, you can see these things are building on each other. You have authenticity at the foundation. Then you have consistent action. Then you’ve got your story woven into it to humanize you so you’re not just a walking billboard, slapping people in the face. And then you have your expertise on display to show everybody that you’re the five-star professional, that you are the educator, that you are the badass you claim to be.All right. Number five, visibility. Are you visible? Can I see you? You’re seeing me right now so we’ve got a brand connection. Can your customer see you? Are you connected to them? I love the past customers, as an example. Are they all connected into your social media? Do they see you often? Or are you just sending them a crappy drip campaign? You’d hear me beat that to death, but are you visible in their lives? If you’re not, your brand does not have a strong position. You will lose to Superbowl commercials and whatever else the media is pounding them on the face on. Again, this ties into consistency a little bit, but it also ties into your ability to put yourself where other people are. So now this is kind of where I make you feel uncomfortable because I’m telling you to go into different social networks and really put yourself out there because if you’re not there, you’re not visible.Let’s go one step further. Be where community and network is. Be where they are. Does that make sense? Be where they are? Good example. If you’re going to solicit real estate professionals to earn their business and referrals and their trust and their influence in their market. If you’re going to earn that, guess where you need to be? Where they are, which means weekends, open houses, work alongside them, where they work, earn their trust and be visible with them. The same part translates perfectly into social media. Man, there are so many of you out there that are just social media stalkers. Stop it. Put yourself out there. I know that you have a chance to get hurt if you do that. I know. I know. I know you have a chance to get hurt because if you’re vulnerable, then somebody else can crap on you. And I’ll give you an example. I did my podcast.I’m proud of it, man. I got two episodes out. I’m dropping them every two weeks so I can kind of pace myself out. Otherwise, I would just produce them all and then I’ll be out. And I like to slow play it. And the second I posted episode zero, which is just a foundational conversation about why I’m doing the podcast, I got a one star. Come on. You haven’t even seen what I’m going to do yet with this thing. One starred me. When you put yourself out there, it is a position of vulnerability, but that’s the position of power. That’s the power. Being vulnerable is power. I don’t know how else to land that for you. When you put yourself out there and you share and you expose yourself to the communities and the world you’re trying to influence, you are powerful. And so visibility, as the fifth tactic, is crucial for a brand you’ve got to be visible, which means you got to be where your market is and you got to be out there with them and engaging. Okay.Number six, your value proposition. UVP, baby. Going old school. It’s okay. Just stay with me for a second. Because if you’re authentic and consistent and you have a great story and you’re an expert and you’re visible, so are other people competing against you. Fair? You with me on that? They’re authentic. They’re consistent. They have a good story. They’re an expert. They spent 30 years in the business. They’re visible. What separates you from them? What uniquely do you bring to the market, to your services that is different than them? And I’ll give you a hint. Great rates, closing on time and good customer service isn’t it. That is garbage. I am sorry. It’s not garbage. It’s crucially important as a foundation, but it’s not a differentiator and it’s not a value proposition. That’s what I mean by garbage. I don’t mean you can’t have that … You’re getting me, right? Okay.So this part’s hard though. This is a hard thing to say, because you could say, “I’m an expert.” So am I. “I am authentic,” and so am I. “I’m visible,” so am I. What sets you apart from the rest? I can’t give it to you, but I can kind of point you in the right direction. So for example, if your story is you’re a veteran that served and your value proposition is because of my service. I have this deep personal connection and motivation to serve underserved veterans. You’ve got a UVP that’s different than mine. I don’t have that. Sure. There’s another vet that may have that, but you’re starting to differentiate and pull out from the madness. That’s the kind of stuff I love. And you got to figure out what your value proposition is and what makes you unique and different, besides your expertise and visibility and blah, blah, blah. It’s very important because if everyone else shows up one through five and the number six hits, there you go.Last piece of a strong personal brand, your network, your connections, the humans that will help you. Man, I don’t know how else to say this, but one of the things … Oh yeah, I do. I know exactly what to say. See, I’m not that dumb. I’m dumb, but I’m not that dumb. I’ll give you the example. When I was an early originator, I proposed to my beautiful bride and we were going to get married in July. And so, as a loan officer, I sent out a $10 million challenge. I have the flyer. It’s over there. It’s incredible. And the $10 million challenge was a flyer sent to all 100 of the top agents in Orange County where I was working. And my past customers all got one. And I basically wrote a letter that said, “I need your help. I’m getting married in July, super excited.” I shared a lot of my life with people on all that all the time because I wanted to humanize it.And apparently, I was doing the right stuff without even really knowing it. “I’ve never funded over $10 million in a month. I would really love your help to accomplish that milestone before I go on my honeymoon to Greece.” That’s what the $10 million challenge was. I had some great funny months. So I had $8 million, $6 million months, but I never had broken the 10 million normal. And, man, it was a personal goal of mine to break that milestone. So I asked my connections for help. The connections that I showed up with and see on weekends, even if the real estate partners had never worked with me, they had seen me popping around at events, at networking events. I was the affiliate of the year for the [inaudible 00:20:30] Realtors one year. I was there. They had exposed to me. They were my connections. My past customers, they were my connections. And I asked for help. When you are sincere in building strong connection with other human beings and having your brand exposed amongst your community, they will rally to your cause and they will help you.That’s one of the reasons I always, always, always tell people to stop posting online and start campaigning for a result. Instead of saying, “I’m going to do 10 part video series for first-time home buyers,” say, “I’m going to do a 10 part video series every Friday for first-time home buyers with the goal of helping 10 new first-time home buyers get into their home over the next three months. And I need your help, my network, my connections, because I’m going to rely on you to help me get where we’re going to go together and we’re going to do it together.” If you’re not connected to other people in a really strong way, your brand will suffer. And this is a way to help it. You feel me on this? Campaign. Don’t post. That’ll be another video for sure. But ask for a result. Did that land? I’m going to say it one more time because I don’t think it landed for you. You got to focus on this.Instead of posting 10 videos for 10 weeks saying, “Each one will be on a tip for a first time home buyer.” Great. Love you. What about if you actually asked for a result? Oh, now you’re vulnerable. What if you don’t get your result? Oh my God. Try it. Try it and see what happens. And say, “Hey, I’m going to post 10 videos and I’m going to put a little counter at the end. It says zero of 10. And every time I get a chance to consult a new first-time home buyer … ” Just consult. Just give them advice … “I’m going to take one of those tallies up. And you, my community, my connections. I need your help. Here’s video number one.” Bang, bang, bang, bang. Next week, “guys, you remember I’m on this campaign to help and educate 10 first time-home buyers on their options. Here’s video number two. I need your help. I’ve got one of 10 down. Thank you to whoever referred me to that person.”You feel me on this? These are the seven elements of a very, very strong, personal brand. Authenticity, consistency, your story, humanized yourself, your expertise, being visible, your unique value proposition that sets you apart and your network and your connections that you’re investing in and building on. Those, as a foundation, will rocket your personal brand, you’re leaning into that space. And I said it before, and I’ll say it as we kind of closed down, if you’re not, you’re going to lose because humans, they want to connect to brands. They want to connect to people. They don’t want to connect to a billboard. And you need to showcase that you’re much more than an interest rate. All right? There it is. Have a great rest of your week guys. Thanks for hanging out with me. Take care.

I would argue you don’t want a “Customer” for life, you want a relationship. Relationships build more relationships. Your “customer” is another human being and as such you should make an effort to know them more. Reciprocity that comes from this is limitless.

This LiveTime with Alec focuses on…

• How to create a relationship with your clients
• Ditching the drip campaigns
• Commitment to being a better community member
• Relationship building for not only you but your clientele

Episode Transcribe

What’s up, everybody. Welcome to another Friday.

We’re going live again. And man, we’re going to have some fun today.

First of all, I love that you guys tune in on Fridays, I think it’s actually really fun to get together and talk about, oh man, the reality of our business on a Friday, because everyone’s tuning out, and I love the people that are leaning in, because that’s when we change our businesses and our lives, and all that fun stuff. So I’m going to talk today about, man, the customer for life topic. I Just finished my lunch. Thank you. Some of you guys, or I did, let’s just go with me. I grew up on the customer for life philosophy. By the way, real quick, I have a new mic. Check this thing out. How’s the audio out there? Is it okay? If you can see me, there’s a couple of you guys on LinkedIn already, let me know how the audio sounds, so I can make sure that I’m actually coherent.And yeah, let’s go back. Customer for life. I grew up on it. I grew up on it. And my customer for life strategy when I was 23, in 2003, was a tri-fold printed newsletter that I would buy, and buy in bulk, so I’d buy like 100 of them, and then I would literally use my act database, print out my labels, and then just go in there on a Saturday and be like, “Boop, boop, boop.” And put them all through, and on the back of this generic newsletter was just my face. And I guarantee other people were buying that same newsletter and sending it out with their face, which is hysterical because it’s the same stuff, we’re just sending the same thing with different faces on it. Thanks Scott, thanks John. Oh, the music was coming through. Yes. I never know. I find out after if the music played.Yeah. So that was the strategy, and that was customer for life. You put people into a drip, not even a drip, a hard mail newsletter to their house. Fast forward, man, we are not doing a good job. And I’m generalizing, if you’re offended, don’t get offended. I’m not talking about you. I might be talking about you. Act database, John that’s real talk.We do a terrible job. And let me just back it up a little bit. Today, a CRM system tends to do drip campaigns and we, and we push on this like drip campaign, drip campaign. Dude, you don’t even like getting drip campaigns. How many emails you get a day? Is it like a thousand? That’s terrible. Do you like getting a thousand emails a day? No. And yet you’re getting them. And then, and then you’re putting your customer on them.Guys, it’s embarrassing. I’m embarrassed for myself, for the industry. And let’s break it down and talk about why. First of all, when somebody actually decides to use you as a mortgage professional for a home loan, man, they get financially naked. They share everything, all their credit blunders come up and they got to talk to you about it and they got to write letters of explanations about it. Their assets, how much money they have in the bank, they have to share all that. There are people who don’t even share that with their family and friends. And then sometimes, the real stuff comes out, right? Tell me if you recognize this, “Hey, what’s that account over there that I don’t know about?” “Oh yeah. Can we not share that with my wife? That’s my secret account.”Dude, that’s real. That has happened. If you have had that happen, throw me a comment right there, because that’s hysterically true, right? You are like a therapist rolled up in a financial advisor for your customers. They share their deepest, darkest hopes and dreams with you through the process. And then you execute against that and you deliver them back a fantastic mortgage experience, a great loan. Thanks, Kevin.A great loan, and then what? You put them on a drip campaign. You put them on a drip campaign, shame on you. If I had the shame bell, I would be ringing it in your face. That’s terrible guys. That’s terrible. Ryan, it happens too often, happens so often, so often. Or we just do nothing, which is equally as bad. We do nothing, we just like, “Hey, thanks for this wonderful transaction. Thanks for providing food for my family. And all the good stuff there.” And then we’re like, “See you later.”We just ghost them. Just ghost them. We could do so much better. There are a lot of great people talking about this topic. In one of my 100 videos in 100 days, I had a topic of your closing gifts suck. And it was the same thread of don’t just … Here’s a great one. How many loan officers do you know, and if you’re one of them, you can raise your hand internally, send your customers a bottle of wine? Bottle of champagne, graduations. Yeah? Anybody out there, bottle of wine? Yeah, I get you. You feel me.You just sent a bottle of wine to an alcoholic, a recovering alcoholic. How do you feel about that? “But I have been, no…” Stop, stop. What if they don’t like alcohol? Oh my gosh, you know guys, we’ve got to listen so much better. We got to pay attention so much better. The customer for life mentality is super dead, it’s dead. You don’t want a customer for life. You want a relationship with that person for life because relationships equal more influence and more opportunity.You feel me on this? Give me like an, “I feel you, Alec.” This is so important to me because these customers, these human beings in your community that you live with, we deserve to do a better job, they deserve a better job. And I’ll set it up for you. I know so many of you are doing what I’m labeling as a hopes and dreams call, where you explore with the customer what they want to achieve with their financing, and you ask all the real questions about their kids and their future, and are they going to college? And are you saving for that?And you just start diving into all like the meat of that conversation. And in that process, you have the opportunity to find … “I feel you dog.” Thanks, TJ. You have the process to find what they care about. Is it a sports team? Is it their church or their charity? What are they leaning into in their life? And man, that’s your opportunity to show up in a really big way to love on those people forever. Ditch the drip campaign and commit to being better, commit to being better. You want better results, you want more success, you want more influence? Commit to being better. Here’s a great example, how many of your customers have kids? A lot, a lot have kids, right? I have a little eight year old and a six year old. For those people, how important are their kids to them? Man, they’re so important, right? So you have the kids’ names and if you’re smart and a great professional, you have the kids’ birthdays.Send them a freaking birthday gift. Celebrate with those people in their life. By the way, here’s another thing that some people aren’t doing, which is totally insane. The people you’re doing loans for you should be adding to your social media community, your digital online community. Yes, all of them. And some of you guys do a great job on that.I feel you, you feel me, you’re good. Some of you do a crappy job on that. And I’m like, “Why aren’t you hanging out with these guys digitally for the rest of your life and sharing life together?” What do you want? Do you want a customer? Or do you want a relationship? You know what I’m saying? Send a gift to their kids, man. Guess what they also don’t care about their loaniversary, Do not care. That does not hold a place in their memory. Unless they’re a weirdo then maybe, but it does not hold a place in their brain. What is in their brain is eating pizza on the floor of their new home on the day they moved in because the furniture is not there yet. That is burned into their memory.How do you celebrate that with them on the anniversary of their move in of their home? This is the kind of stuff. How are you being proactive? Remember the glory days of HUD ones and every year around now on tax time, you would send out the HUD ones to your customers? Remember that, because they need it for tax purposes? And now we have CDEs and blah, blah, blah. But how many of you guys are doing that these days? Some are, I was talking to a guy like last week and he does that every year and I’m like, “Dude, high five, man.” That’s a relationship. You’re thinking about them and their needs ahead of yours and you’re leaning into it, and you’re sharing that stuff with them. That’s a relationship, that’s Epic. A drip campaign, an email video that has their name like embedded in it? Shame on you.We all know that’s garbage. I don’t want that, don’t send that to me. But a text message about my birthday or a Facebook video sent to me on my birthday that says, “I care about you, I remember. How are the kids? How’s the dog? How’s life?” I see it on social, so you can gauge all day. Man, that’s the future. I mean, if you want to have success, I’m just going to say it. If you want to win. If you want to deepen relationships because relationships beget more relationships.They’re going to give you more customers, more referrals, more opportunity if you really take it seriously. And so many of us just are just onto the next one and it’s embarrassing, and so don’t do it. Don’t do it. You with me on this? Okay. Let’s kind of open it up a little bit and talk one layer deeper.I did this in one of my other lives, but it ties into the relationship for life topic and I want to just hit it again. I feel like if we’re going to be relationship builders with our customers, then there is no reason we shouldn’t be relationship builders for them to help them build relationships. Here’s what I mean. I said this before, but it’s just the truth so we’ve got to go into it. Closing gifts in my opinion, should be replaced with community engagement events. I mean, what is more beneficial or more powerful than walking in a community after you closed a loan for somebody and going door to door, to all the neighbors and inviting them over to a house warming for that new person moving in and encouraging them to bring something or whatever and just introducing yourself and your realtor that you love. And just meeting humans that live in houses?I mean, better than sitting in your office and staring at YouTube. Be a community builder, make relationships with these people and then bring the community in alongside it. They’re moving into a new neighborhood too, they’re nervous, they don’t like it. So be a relationship developer for your customer and you will be so shocked at the amount of reciprocity and just good will and karma and influence that you develop through that process.So I have to share something else that I learned from Dustin Brahm and his podcast, so Dustin, you get full credit for this. You’re probably not watching, but I love you. And it was with Phil Treadwell too, so okay Phil, you made it. But I love listening to their podcast, because they were talking about cutting boards and I was dying laughing.We have such an ego that we assume that sending a customer a cutting board with my name, my logo, my company on it, get over yourself a little bit. You know what I mean? It’s tacky. It’s like setting them a wineglass that has your initials on it. Why? Don’t do that. Give them a cutting board, but then don’t put yourself … Do you get my point on this? If you’re going to give somebody a gift, a closing gift, do it with authenticity and without this desire to get something back from them. This like, “Oh, now they’ll look at my cutting board every day with my name on it and they’ll be like, ‘Oh, I remember that guy.'” I was dying, the whole podcast went on the same topic, the same thread.But you get it, right? Building relationships isn’t about this like, “Here’s a cutting board with my name on it. Now you’ll remember me.” Building relationships is like, “Hey, I know you are a chef and you’re into cooking. And so I bought you these really executive knives that are pretty expensive.” But man, if they’re into cooking, you know how precious some knives are to people that cook. That’s a real, thoughtful thing. That’s a big difference than I give everybody a generic cutting board and a bottle of wine.I think we can do better. I think we have to do better if we want to play in the macro game. If you want to earn head space with your customers and your community for a long time and cut through the noise of the Super Bowl commercials and the constant harassment and phone calls and the flyers coming in … Happy Friday, dad. Then you’ve got to play a bigger game and go deeper with people.Man, Todd Duncan talks about this all the time. If you follow anything that Todd Duncan says, man, some of his stuff is all about going deeper into relationship. Yes, Leanne, it’s about being thoughtful and intentional, going deeper with relationship with human beings. And referral partners of course, is one of the things Todd teaches, but man, I’m talking about your customers right now. Don’t lose the opportunity. There are about 30 people watching right now that I can tell, what do you do? What do you do as we kind of roll down here? If you’re watching and share the comment on LinkedIn and on Facebook and what do you do that you think sets you apart as a thing? Let’s share it. And let’s be kind of communal on this, because maybe we can pick up a cool idea. Don’t don’t live in scarcity like, “Oh, someone’s going to steal my idea.”I live in abundance. We all grow by getting better together, challenge each other. I’d love to hear a comment that you guys have on what you do that you feel makes impact. I don’t care if you’re in the mortgage industry or not. Some people following this are in their own careers, but you’re building the same type of intentionality with your customers, I guarantee it, the same type of thing.So what are you doing that sets you apart from your community? I want you to share it in the one or two comments and just fired in there, because I really believe that if we pour into each other, we get better. And I really believe that if we’re just unabashedly living in abundance, we can transform our businesses. I shared a couple of examples from people that have shared with me before from the community building events and the door knocking to the gifts that …Oh, I love it Joey, “Be yourself and show humility.” Yeah, man. It goes back to that cutting board thing, dude. No one wants your name on it. I mean, I don’t want my friend’s name on it. I want something thoughtful and amazing and nice, and that, to me transforms the space. So I’m going to wrap it down here. I appreciate you guys tuning in on a Friday, we’ve been hanging out for about 16, 17 minutes.I’m still looking for those comments though. I got one from Lortis on Facebook, I’ll share this thing. “Traveling with an agent to film distressed homes on-site.” You do that after closing? That’s pretty interesting. I love the fact that you’re out there in the community and that’s my whole point with developing relationships with your customer for life strategy. I don’t even want to call it that anymore, don’t call it that. Relationship for life. And if you’re in a relationship for somebody, you hang out with them, you talk to them, you encourage them, you’re in community with them, you give thoughtfully to them without trying to get something back and you change your whole business.It will change your whole business. Yeah, Scott said, “Self-serving House Happy.” Yeah, there’s a great service called House Happy that customers can connect to and can manage their whole living in a house experience, which is a pain from contractors to gutter cleaners and all that stuff. I feel you. It’s the game.All right. Joey says, “I always ask two things I did well and two things I can do better.” Oh, for the customers? That’s really interesting. I wonder how many of us ask our customers what we could’ve done better to improve our experience. That’s putting yourself out there, man. “Hey, what are two things you think I did great? What are two things you think I could have done better to improve my experience?” Man, that’s going right into relationship, because now you’re asking for direct feedback and you’re not just one siding the whole experience. I love that Joey, thanks for sharing.All right guys, I appreciate you hanging out with me. Go out with me and let’s be better relationship builders in our communities with our past customers, kill the drip campaigns. Kill them. They’re terrible. Start doing real stuff for your people and make real impact. I appreciate you guys, have a happy Friday, have a great weekend. Talk to you later.

Alec has his Chief Retail Production Officer and father on the podcast to discuss the changes that are occurring in the industry and how to stay ahead of the tide when it comes to technology and your business. Dan also gives so great tips to different job levels in the industry.

Your snippet of this episode of the Modern Lending Podcast:

• Technology equals change
• The Taxi Driver didn’t realize he was looking at the end of his business
• Bad things happen to companies that don’t make money
• DO NOT leave your emails not responded to for three days

Episode Transcribe

Alec Hanson:Hey, everybody.

Welcome to episode two of the Modern Lending Podcast.

It’s Alec Hanson. Extremely excited to bring on a guest today because not many people get to bring on their dad, who actually is an industry icon. So, for those of you that don’t know Dan Hanson or new to the industry, man, this guy has done it all. I’m really excited to bring his stories and his wisdom to you guys today. It’s going to be a great episode. As a reminder, please, please, please, subscribe, like, share, help a brother out. Come on. We got to spread the message. Without further ado, let’s bring on Dan Hanson. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Modern Lending Podcast. This is going to be a fun conversation. I knew it. The second this was set up, I knew this is going to be a fun conversation. So, for those of you that are tuning in or watching on YouTube, hello. We are back and we are sitting here with the legend Dan Hanson. Dan Hanson:Legend usually means the old guy. Alec Hanson:I’m really excited, guys. So, a lot of you know Dan from his mortgage career, and we’ll give him a second to talk about what he’s done and accomplished, and where he’s at in his life, and what wisdom he has to impart on us. A lot of you don’t know Dan got me into this business because he tricked me, because I was stupid and I asked my dad for a job when I was in college, and then I was shipping loan files in Oakland. So, thank you for that. I mean, I only got mugged twice. So, it was amazing. I learned a ton about mortgage. Dan Hanson:That’s what you’ll learn on it. Alec Hanson:So, as we get started here, Dan, share with everybody a little bit of your background because some people I know that are brand new to the industry, so they’re still figuring out what mortgage is. They don’t know what’s happened and who you are in your career. So, give everybody a couple of minutes just on what you’ve done, what you’ve seen, and frame it up so people know who’s talking. Dan Hanson:Okay. Well, first of all, it’s a thrill to be here with the 100 podcast guy in 100 days.Alec Hanson:We’re podcasting 100 days. Yeah. Dan Hanson:To be interviewed by that is a special treat. It’s on my resume now. Alec Hanson:Congrats. Dan Hanson:I started out of college not sure like most people what they were going to do, and I was a tennis player at the time, believe it or not. Alec Hanson:Hold on a second, not just a tennis player. You didn’t just play tennis. Dan Hanson:No. Alec Hanson:You were competitively competent. Dan Hanson:Yeah. We had a good run there when I actually had a body when we’re storing ice. So, I got married right out of college, and my wife and I, we’re trying to figure out what to do with ourselves. I said, “Well, I can play tennis and teach tennis and we can make some income, and you can finish your teaching credential and move on.” So, we did that for a few years and then-Alec Hanson:Hold on. Hold on. What was your highest achievement in tennis? You were all-American in college. Dan Hanson:Yeah, I was a two-time all-American. Alec Hanson:Oh, sorry. Whoa! Sorry. Don’t miss the two-time. Dan Hanson:Yeah. Don’t miss that. Alec Hanson:Then after, in your competitive career, where did you ascend to? What was the highest you got? Dan Hanson:Well, I played in a lot of the satellite tours and a lot of the European tours. You realize very quickly when you play Jimmy Connors that he plays a different game than you do. So, I realized very quickly I need to find a new sport. Thanks, Jimmy, for the lesson and helping me understand that I-Alec Hanson:He’s listening. He tunes in. Dan Hanson:I know. Alec Hanson:He’s a huge subscriber. Dan Hanson:He should because he showed me that the game I was playing had very little resemblance to the one he was playing. I did enjoy a lot of competitive career there. By the way, I think a competitive career, if you’re in the mortgage industry especially, which is a very entrepreneurial business and a very relationship-driven business, if you’re not a competitor, it’s very hard to succeed in this business because it’s a business that relies on you to hear a lot of nos and feel a lot of rejection, and get some disappointments, and be able to get off the mat and get back in the game. So, my number one thing when I ever hire anybody in our industry is I want to find out that they’re a competitor. Alec Hanson:So, let’s go there. You were competing in tennis. Dan Hanson:Yup. Alec Hanson:You were coaching in tennis. Dan Hanson:Yup. Alec Hanson:Then you said you needed a real job. Dan Hanson:I needed a real job. Didn’t know what to do. Actually, I had a recruiting firm call me and introduced me to the title business. Alec Hanson:Nice. Dan Hanson:I had no idea what title was. I was living in Laguna Niguel, which is in Southern California, and this opportunity was in Riverside, which is inland California, a very different world. Alec Hanson:Yeah, hour and a half drive. You’d go toll road back then. Dan Hanson:No. It was a lot of fun. I went to work in title industry and really understood how real estate agents and home builders work with their vendors. I got to understand the relationship building skills that is endemic to the title industry. I got to learn a little bit about what real estate is. So, it was a great experience. I worked for a company called Safe go back in those days, which has long since been acquired by Chicago Title and others. The reality is what I learned from that experience was how many individuals are involved in the real estate transaction. Alec Hanson:Oh, there’s a lot. Dan Hanson:From termite to title-Alec Hanson:Inspector. Oh, yeah. Dan Hanson:… to escrow, obviously, mortgage is probably the biggest piece of that whole transaction because without capital, hard to do much. Alec Hanson:Start to buy a home. Dan Hanson:Yeah. So, mortgage, how did you get stuck in the mortgage? Alec Hanson:A friend of mine named Gary Anderson who was-Dan Hanson:Oh, a lot of people know Gary. He left a legacy on this industry. Alec Hanson:Gary was a unique visionary person in the mortgage space. I could talk for a long time about Gary, but he knew me from the title industry, and he was running a company called Directors Mortgage out in Riverside and said, “Why don’t you come and work with me in the mortgage space?” Dan Hanson:You know what’s funny about Directors and I know you’ll get into it in a second, but I ended up talking and recruiting a lot of people in this industry, and Directors has a place in people’s hearts. If someone was a Directors’ employee-Alec Hanson:Oh, yeah. Clearly. Dan Hanson:… it made an impact in their life. Alec Hanson:It’s because Gary was that kind of person. Gary is the guy that would share anything. If he had something that was going that was successful and you ask him about it, he would just give every competitor, “Here’s what I do, and it worked great.” Dan Hanson:He’s awesome. Just abundance. Alec Hanson:Exactly. He lived a life of abundance, and tragically left us early at 52 years old, but built a legacy at Directors, a foundation of Directors. When I first sat down with him because I didn’t know anything about the mortgage company, mortgage business, really, I said, “Really, tell me, give me the basics.” Dan Hanson:Yeah, “What is this mortgage business about?” Alec Hanson:I said, “How is it different than title?” Dan Hanson:Yeah. That’s a good question. Alec Hanson:Yeah. He said, “Well, you have to know your products pretty well,” because in those days when people who haven’t been in the industry this long may not know that in the ’80s, mortgage bankers didn’t do conventional and jumbled on it. Dan Hanson:Right. People don’t know that. We just did FHA and VA loans. That’s what we were built for. We understood those products extremely well. Obviously, they fit a tremendous amount of the population that the banks didn’t necessarily serve or want to serve. So, that’s what gave birth to the mortgage banking group was this huge amount of first-time home buyers primarily, this huge amount of veterans that were coming back and wanted to use their entitlement. So, we became experts at that. The mortgage business was grown and built fundamentally on the government business model. Alec Hanson:Directors as a company had a unique career, a unique flow through the industry, right? What happened with Directors after Gary?Dan Hanson:We did. Well, when Gary died, which was, obviously, a tragic event in 1993, we needed to sell the company because of the estate taxes. Gary owned the entire company. So, Ray Crebs who was the president at the time and myself started looking for a company that would be strong enough to acquire a company like Directors, and we found a company, believe it or not, called Norwest. Alec Hanson:… which is bank, right?Dan Hanson:Yes. Alec Hanson:Was it a bank?Dan Hanson:Norwest was a bank out of Minnesota. Alec Hanson:There you go. Dan Hanson:Norwest was also the largest mortgage banker in the United States at that time. People forget about all that, but they were a big dog back in those days out of Des Moines, which was very interesting. So, they came out and they saw they wanted a better, stronger West Coast presence, which was where Directors was. So, they agreed to acquire Directors in 1994. Many of us flowed over, obviously, into the new company. Some of them said, “Boy, this banking company is very different than an entrepreneurial company that Gary had run,” and they went different places. Culturally, they just didn’t feel the same vibe. Alec Hanson:… which happens in acquisitions. Dan Hanson:Yeah. Absolutely. It made some sense. So, we ended up with Norwest Mortgage, and we started to really understand what the differences were with the bank on mortgage company versus an entrepreneurial on mortgage company. There are big differences. Alec Hanson:What was your role during this time?Dan Hanson:Well, I ended up running the State of California, initially, and being the National Builder Manager for Norwest. Alec Hanson:There you go. Dan Hanson:So, they took my builder experience because I ran the national builder platform in the title industry, as well as the national builder platform for Directors. They brought me in and said, “We do a lot of builder business. Why don’t you help the whole country learn how to do that?” We did some very interesting things. We were the first company to come out with extended rate locks. Alec Hanson:Very cool, which now is a normal, I mean, well, some. Dan Hanson:For companies that are able to figure it out, still a hard process, but to give somebody a rate that says, “Hey, we’re going to guarantee your interest rate now and in 12 months when your house is done, if the market is better, we’ll float down, if it isn’t, you’re protected,” takes a lot of experience in capital markets. Alec Hanson:Yeah. Dan Hanson:So, that was one of the first things we did. Then about three years into the acquisition where we were in Norwest Mortgage and things were moving along, and I ran the Western State Division for them along with the builder group, a little company called Wells Fargo Bank-Alec Hanson:Yeah, we heard of them. Dan Hanson:Yeah, they were acquired by Norwest. Alec Hanson:You see, people don’t remember this that Norwest bought Wells Fargo. Dan Hanson:Correct. Alec Hanson:Because Wells Fargo is a behemoth now. Dan Hanson:Right. Everybody thought that Wells must have bought Norwest. Alec Hanson:Of course. Dan Hanson:The reality is the Minnesota Bank bought Wells Fargo. Alec Hanson:Kept the name. Dan Hanson:Yeah. I remember I got a phone call really early in the morning from Mark Oman, who was the chairman at the time of Norwest Mortgage and said, “Well, I got a little present for you for your stocking.” I go, “Wow. What is that?”He goes, “Well, we’ve got a few more bank branches in California.” I go, “Oh, really?”He goes, “Yeah. Wells Fargo.” I really thought he was joking. Then all of a sudden, we were merged with Wells Fargo. We bought the bank. Minnesota moved their headquarters from-Alec Hanson:That’s wild. Dan Hanson:… St. Paul out to San Francisco. We now became Wells Fargo Mortgage because they took their name feeling it had a stronger national brand than Norwest. Alec Hanson:Fascinating. Dan Hanson:That’s why it happened. So, now, we went from the number one mortgage company with Norwest to even a larger number one mortgage company with the combination of Wells Fargo and Norwest. Combining those two cultures was also very challenging. Alec Hanson:I bet. Dan Hanson:Three or four years into that, it just seemed like the bank culture had really taken over the mortgage business. That’s not necessarily bad, it’s just that banks view mortgage as an ancillary profit center, and their primary profit center is consumer acquisition and checking, savings, investment, and mortgage is a piece of that. Alec Hanson:Yeah. A lot of people know my story in spending a couple of years at a large bank. It’s just a cultural difference. If you try to make it something they’re not, you’re going to have friction, but if you just accept that the bank is going to do what they do, and you’re just a piece of that wheel and you can settle into that, you’re great, but I found a lot of entrepreneurial salespeople they get too caged up. I mean, they can’t live in that world. Dan Hanson:It’s different. You have to really accept that kind of regulatory bureaucracy and that kind of positioning, where you’re not number one in the mind of the CEO everyday. You’re number four, which your fourth child is still good. Alec Hanson:We like them. Dan Hanson:If you only have one child, they’re really good. So, that’s just the way it is. So, after that, about 2000, I left the bank and I left the mortgage industry actually for a year. There were some family situations I had to attend to. I couldn’t travel the amount of time-Alec Hanson:I’m very familiar with those. Dan Hanson:Yeah. I had a son that was a huge problem. Alec Hanson:Thank you. Dan Hanson:I had to deal with that. The reality was that year off and I really didn’t take a year off because the chairman of the bank at the time of Wells Fargo called me up and said, “Really appreciate all you’ve done here. I understand you’re leaving for some reasons that are personal, but I’d like your help on building a CRM product because we’re behind in serving those that are underserved, and we need that credential checked by the regulators to buy more banks in Texas and buy more banks and grow.” So, he said, “You can work at home, but I need you to build a CRM product that would allow-” Alec Hanson:When you CRM, people think customer relationship management system. Dan Hanson:No. Alec Hanson:Yeah. So, break it down. Dan Hanson:CRM is basically what the banks are required to provide to serve those customers that are not necessarily in their wheelhouse. Alec Hanson:There you go. Dan Hanson:They’re the underserved communities, and they get credit for those. They’re obligated to provide that credit, and they get examined about it. So, I built a product that allowed much more affordable housing for folks that had challenging credit circumstances but still were credit worthy. The bank implemented those, and we were very successful in growing Wells’ business in that regard and allowing them to have regulatory approval to continue to expand their banking organization. Alec Hanson:Very cool. Dan Hanson:So, that was a learning experience for me because I had never spent that much time on that segment of the business. I mean, I went to all the African-American churches in Los Angeles and up in the Central Valley, and visited with pastors who were working with people that were attempting to get into the housing market and learning the challenges that those individuals have, and how to differentiate between people that really had sustainable credibility to get a home and those that were just frankly not in a position to do it. Alec Hanson:Right. Dan Hanson:I really began to appreciate the barriers that those folks endured and how we needed to really reach out and educate them on how to manage credit, how to manage their life debt, how to create an environment where they were responsible in the way in which they manage their money. It was very interesting. For me, it was enlightening because I had come from a background where that seemed to be understood, where they really were anxious to understand that and learn that. So, it was great for me. Alec Hanson:So, you got suck back in, then you took this year. You spent building some cool product, and then you got back into the high level game. Dan Hanson:I did, yeah. In 2001, I got a call to interview with a company called Countrywide. I didn’t know much about Countrywide except for I’d heard that their branches had underwriters that were branch managers, which I thought was very innovative, but they only had about 300 salespeople, and they were basically running around out there, and mostly in California, but a guy named Angelo Mozilo had started this company with a the premise that everybody should have an opportunity to own a home. Alec Hanson:Right. I remember. Dan Hanson:That was his theme. Alec Hanson:Yeah. He’s passionate about it. Dan Hanson:So, I went to Texas. Ironically, I went to Texas the day of 9/11, which was very strange because ominous, I should say. I was on the tarmac on my way to Dallas to interview for the job with a guy named Joe Anderson. All of a sudden, they came on and said, “We have to deplane. The President of the United States has grounded all domestic aircraft in the United States.”Alec Hanson:That’s so wild. That’s wild. Dan Hanson:We were on a plane, so we had no TV. We had no-Alec Hanson:You don’t know what happened. Dan Hanson:We didn’t know what was going on. So, we’re going, “That’s probably not good.” Alec Hanson:No. Dan Hanson:When we went into the terminal, we obviously saw the 9/11 horror of the planes hitting the towers. So, I was delayed for my interview for a few days, but I ultimately went to Dallas and interviewed, and joined Countrywide, and ran the Western States for Countrywide. We began to execute on a strategy to compete with the behemoth in the world. At that time, Countrywide was a big wholesaler. They were not a really huge retailer as they became. Brian Hale and I actually partnered up on this. Brian had worked with me at Wells Fargo for years, so we’d known each other. Countrywide started with the premise, and it’s very interesting because it’s similar to LoanDepot’s premise. Countrywide had a very strong technology platform. They were able to-Alec Hanson:Well, they’re first to create automated underwriting. Dan Hanson:Exactly. Alec Hanson:I mean, it blew away the industry. Dan Hanson:Yeah. People don’t realize that CLUES, which was their system of automated underwriting was the basis of DU. So, when all the rest of the industry saw DU and LP come out, we were the only company that they would accept CLUES’ determination-Alec Hanson:Version, yeah. Dan Hanson:… along with DU and LP. Alec Hanson:That’s fascinating. Dan Hanson:By the way, this is something to remember. We had a technological advantage over everyone else in the mortgage space at that point. Alec Hanson:It’s a big thing. Dan Hanson:Right. Well, and I think we’re seeing some of that at LoanDepot today. Alec Hanson:Well, it’s coming back, right, after the crisis. Dan Hanson:Exactly. We’ll talk about that crisis maybe at some point. The reality was we as originators didn’t really understand the power of that right away. We just did what we always did and we went out and hired talent, and we changed the complexion of Countrywide to be a more retail-based franchise. Alec Hanson:This is where I want to land it. Fast forward, your last position with Countrywide was Managing Director of Retail, Distributed Retail. Dan Hanson:Correct. Alec Hanson:What did the scope look like?Dan Hanson:So, I had 980 offices and about almost 10,000 loan originators. Alec Hanson:That’s just scale because after the crisis, that scale has not come back. Dan Hanson:No. Alec Hanson:We have not seen it ever again since then, which maybe we’ll see in the future, but that’s a massive organization. Dan Hanson:It became that, and it’s funny because you look back at it and you go, “Wow! We went from this small company in retail to this,” and the two catalyst were really the technology that enabled us to securitize product, have reporting that would give us really pinpoint accuracy on how we were doing across the whole country, which is very difficult to do if you don’t have instantaneous reporting on an automated basis. Very hard to do. Then we were innovative, and then we acquired a bank. Alec Hanson:I remember that. Yeah. Dan Hanson:So, Countrywide acquired a bank, which was the first time in my understanding that a mortgage company was actually the parent of a bank. So, it gave us the ability now to compete in the jumbo environment and in the HELOC environment where the banks that was normally their space because we had a bank shelf. So, it was challenging running two regulatory organizations, but the technology, the sales cultural change that I really think that Brian and I worked on very hard to get retail to be the preeminent retail in the organization, and then the banking platform gave us product availability and liquidity and pricing capability that enabled us to grow very rapidly. Alec Hanson:So, I mean, what a massive career, right? It’s obviously not over. You’ve been running retail for iMortgage, and we could get into the neck-breaking story later, which is crazy. Those who don’t know Dan, broke his neck, full recovery, insanity. Dan Hanson:I don’t know about full recovery. There was a little mental drop, but other than that. Alec Hanson:Yeah. Maybe a little bit of God’s help. I want you to talk a little bit about the two crises, the two industry crises that you have seen crash the mortgage space because you hear people that are doomed saying today there’s a recession coming. I think World War III is trending on Twitter. We have an election. I mean, there’s just tons of uncertainty. Dan Hanson:Sure. Alec Hanson:You’ve lived through some of the big cycle that devastated the mortgage industry. Dan Hanson:Yeah. Alec Hanson:So, what were those like in just a couple of seconds? Dan Hanson:Okay. Well, the first one is forgotten about because from 1985 to basically 1995, people forgot that the mortgage industry was really dominated by huge savings and loans.Alec Hanson:Yeah, right. Dan Hanson:States savings and loans, Great Western savings and loans, homes savings and loan, these were monsters back in those days. What happened when rates skyrocketed back in the early ’80s with Jimmy Carter’s administration went up to 16%-18%, it completely decimated the economic platform of the S&Ls. So, people forget that the S&L crisis. 747 S&Ls went under- Alec Hanson:That’s such a massive number. Dan Hanson:… and $400 billion of assets was taken over by the Resolution Trust Corporation to dispose of these assets. So, we had a very large crisis back in those days. Now, compared to 2008, it doesn’t seem as big, but it was a very big deal at the time. Tremendous consolidation took place in our industry. They were-Alec Hanson:… which seems to happen after every crisis. Massive consolidation comes to play. Dan Hanson:Well, the reality is, look, the mortgage industry much like the real estate industry and all financial services, there’s not a lot of balance sheet in these things. So, they depend on liquidity. They depend on the access to that liquidity to run their business. So, when that liquidity tightens up or interest rates get to a point where people literally, I refinance people at 13% and they were thanking me. Alec Hanson:Yeah. The basket is just flowing, man. Dan Hanson:They were saying, “Gosh! Thank you so much. This is such a huge advantage.”I go, “Wow.” So, I look today at 3% and 4% and, historically, I’m amazed at the liquidity that’s in our current system. All those crises had certain thing that hit them, but it all comes back to the liquidity of the platform. When 9/11 happened, and I mentioned earlier that really began in my opinion the crisis of 2008. When money is literally free, when the interest rates are down at zero, human beings tend to reach for a yield and do things that are risky and their credit box starts going. Alec Hanson:Yeah. That’s what stretch themselves. Dan Hanson:Yeah. Then Wall Street decided that real estate was a good business that they’d get in to. It’s all good-Alec Hanson:It’s all good. Dan Hanson:… and created products that the mortgage industry had never seen before. Frankly, and I know that all my Republican friends are going to kill me on this, but the lack of effective regulation in that particular environment really was a problem. So, regulation is not always our enemy. Effective, intelligent regulation actually puts people on a good playing field and helps the consumer. So, I’m not against that. Now, there’s excess to everything. Usually, the pendulum goes that way, right? You had lack of regulatory control that really exacerbated the issue, and then all of a sudden, you swing the pendulum back and now you have so much control that you paralyze the industry, and people are disenfranchised for mortgage banking. So, both those crises changed the complexion of the organization. We all adapt-Alec Hanson:It changed the entire industry dramatically. Dan Hanson:Now, it’s all fragmented, except for refi. Alec Hanson:So, after crisis number two, there was a mass consolidation, right? Banks swooped everybody up. In fact, some of the banks were forced to swoop everybody up. Dan Hanson:Exactly. Alec Hanson:Now, arguably, 10-12 years later, the fragmentation has just started to trickle out right now. So, this is the stats I remember. In pre-crisis 2008, three companies controlled 60% market share, one of those being Countrywide, Wells Fargo. Three companies controlled 60% market share. Then the latest stat I heard today is that the top 20 mortgage companies, including banks, just 20 companies control about 20%, 20%. I mean, the fragmentation is real. Dan Hanson:It’s very real. Alec Hanson:… which creates tons of consumer conflict, pressure, margin compression, I mean, all these things. It’s just a fascinating environment we’re in. Dan Hanson:It is. Yet, all that, if you really dig into it and you go when companies reformed, companies like Quicken and LoanDepot and others stared to shift the thinking because they recognized that the internet now had an amazing impact on the consumers’ behavior. Alec Hanson:I feel like it’s late compared to other industries because we were wrapping a little bit before the podcast, and I want to get into it. I want to hear your thoughts on it about how the internet and access to information has changed the mortgage industry. I feel like we’re late. I feel like other industries like Uber and Amazon have already been, and Netflix, have already been radically transformed by the internet and the information there. I feel like mortgage is actually on the edge of finally getting into it. I think I want to hear your thoughts on what did it do. What is it doing? Dan Hanson:Well, I think you’re making a good point. I thought about why that’s the case. Why are we so far behind that? We now see an escalation of that with Quicken and LoanDepot, Zillow. Alec Hanson:That’s coming fast. Dan Hanson:There’s a lot of companies now that are starting to realize it, but when you sell most of your product to the government, you are then restricted in being innovative because you have these incredibly rigid ways in which you have to sell your product. So, it slowed down a lot of our technological advance in this area. Now, if you look at refinance, for example, honestly, we have a Coke and Pepsi in refinance, which people sometimes don’t really recognize, but the reality is Quicken and LoanDepot dominate that space much like the statistics you talked about earlier, the 20%, 30%. Alec Hanson:Yeah, pre-crisis. Dan Hanson:One out of six refinances or one out of seven, you pick your number, it’s very close, are dominated in the refinance space by those two technological platforms who go directly to the consumer, who are using the internet to drive their business. So, I think as we continue to evolve and we realize that the consumer now has access to information on searching for properties where in the past the MLS was basically only accessible-Alec Hanson:Behind the curtain. Dan Hanson:… only accessible by real estate agents. So, you started your journey when you wanted to buy a house by going to a real estate agent because that’s where we start. Today, that’s not where they start. They start in their pajamas on their laptop looking for a property that they think is interesting in the community they want to live in. Now, they’re, in many more cases, pre-qualifying themselves first so that when they finally get to the active search for a property, they’re much more educated on the process, they’re much more educated on the property values in the area that they’re working in, they’re much more sophisticated in where rates are. They see these posted all the time on the internet. They share with their friends on the social media channels, “Hey, I’m buying a house. What experiences have you had?” So, we’re dealing with a much more engaged, savvy consumer.Alec Hanson:Educated. Dan Hanson:Right, which means our loan officers have to move in the same direction. Alec Hanson:Well, so this is where I want to get into some really cool questions here. So, now that everybody understands the scale you’ve managed and the influence you’ve had on the industry, I think there’s some wisdom that we need to impart on the current professionals today. So, I’d love to start with loan officers because you’ve managed loan officers at scale, 10,000 of them. You’ve managed loan officers at a branch level. You’ve done your own work in mortgage originating deals. In 2020, right now, what do they need to be focusing on. What should they be paying attention to? What should they be learning or leaning into? How would you guide them? Dan Hanson:Well, obviously, everybody has their opinion about it. My perspective on most of this is that it’s the companies that really understand consumer behavior, that know where the puck is going. That’s what I think our loan officers have to really understand. I think in the past, believe it or not, loan officers were so focused on the strategies and tactics to have referral partners want to work with them. So, they devise strategies and all the marketing. In fact, all the sales organizations typically would give you 46,000 ways to make friends with a real estate agent, which is nothing wrong with that, by the way. The reality is there’s more to it than a transaction. The consumer is the customer. The referral partner and you are both vendors. You have to understand that when you build a relationship with a consumer, that’s really the ticket. I think loan officers are beginning to see now in social media, in the internet how the consumer is really the primary customer, and we’re going to have to work with our real estate partners and our builder partners to help them also understand the different kind of savviness of the borrowers we work with. Alec Hanson:I think that’s true, and I want to echo it because when you look at what Uber did to the industry, you have to remember the customer chooses what they want to do. If they have no choice, they’re just going to do that because there’s no choice, “I have to do this. I have to go to a Yellow Cab. I call the 800 number because there’s no other option.” The second another option came in that was better in their mind that gave them more flexibility, ease of use, et cetera. It was a light switch moment. It is moved. Dan Hanson:Right. Well, everybody argues about the chicken or the egg. Does technology cause change or does technology react to change? It does both. So, when the iPhone came out, I’m sure the guy running Yellow Cab thought it was really cool. Alec Hanson:Yeah. He probably bought one. Dan Hanson:”Oh, I got a new iPhone. This is amazing. I could talk to all my cab drivers. This is going to be great,” blah, blah, blah. He didn’t realize he was looking at the end of his business, okay? HE didn’t realize that without the iPhone, Uber doesn’t do this. Alec Hanson:Looking at the end of his business. Dan Hanson:Exactly-Alec Hanson:Great line. Dan Hanson:… but he was smiling. He was going, “This is a great phone. I love this phone.” Alec Hanson:Oh, my God!Dan Hanson:”I’m now dead.” So, I look at that and I go, “Wow. Okay.” So, technology enabled the consumer to have a better experience in getting transportation. Without the iPhone, Uber was restricted from existing, but the minute that that happened, somebody goes, “I can use this iPhone for something different than just talking to my mom and sending photos to my kids.” So, to me, technology is really the mover because it enables the consumer and it also creates the consumer the ability to do different things. Businesses are created. That’s where it gets into the mortgage space. I really believe leadership and management in the mortgage space is now more important than it has been in our history. Alec Hanson:Okay. I want to get to that because you have a lot of wisdom for leaders and managers. I want to get there, but I want to put a nail on the loan officer position here. So, we talked a lot about technology and leaning into it, a lot about social media was underlying everything, leaning into it, direct to consumer efforts, partnering with our referral partners differently to continue to evolve that strategy to get to consumers. So, what’s a final to loan officers in a couple of sentences of like, “Hey, Dan. Tell me what to do”? Dan Hanson:Well, what I tell people is your ability to aggregate and convert leads from consumers is more important than your product knowledge. Alec Hanson:That’s a paradigm shift. Dan Hanson:It is. Alec Hanson:That’s a big deal because there are many professionals out there traditional, I call them traditional, but they’ve built their business off of referral partners in the local community who outstructure people, who are very proud of the fact that they can outstructure anybody. They know every guideline, when their tax return, lalalala. They can do it all. Dan Hanson:Right. By the way, that is an amazingly good skill to have. There’s nothing wrong with that skill. What I would call it is it’s a compensating factor. It’s another reason you would use me, but if you don’t have a lead, your skills don’t matter. Alec Hanson:By the way, you know why laughing? Because I’m dying on the inside because I actually know a tremendous amount of originators who are really talented, but today with the evolving world, they’re not able to get to the lead, to the customers the way they want. In fact, when they’re getting to the customer, the customer has already got three pre-quals and an approval from Quicken, and then realtor finally kicks over the fence, and they’re like, “What’s your rate?” My guru structure loan officer who’s amazing is like, “Uh.” Dan Hanson:Well, I don’t have a chance to give them the distinction between me and somebody else. Alec Hanson:Yeah. It’s done. Dan Hanson:So, I’ve become a commodity of right now-Alec Hanson:It’s a bad place. Dan Hanson:… which we have to fight, and we have to work with our referral partners both to incubate those customers, work with those customers, educate those customers, build relationship. To me, the loan officer now is a stronger partner, needs to be a stronger partner with their realtor and their home builders than they were in the past because in the past, they did that work, and you were just given the task of, “Hey, please filet the fish.” Alec Hanson:Yeah, please. Dan Hanson:You go, “Okay. I don’t know how to filet the fish because I’m an expert at fileting the fish.” Alec Hanson:So, to sum up the loan officer comment, the aggregation and lead conversation have to be the top of your activity list on how you grow your business-Dan Hanson:Yes. Absolutely. Alec Hanson:… or else, it’s going to be over. Dan Hanson:Right. I think that in the past, once we close a transaction with a consumer and we gave them a nice closing gift, and we thank them, we went on to the next transaction. Alec Hanson:No. It happens. Loan officers become very transactional. Dan Hanson:Right. That’s where we have to fight. We have to realize that we need to engage in the customer’s life forever. We have to be a part of their financial future to know where they want to go, to help them get there. Alec Hanson:100%. Dan Hanson:We cannot just be transactional to mortgage. Alec Hanson:100%. Dan Hanson:So, I think that’s a big challenge for some of our folks that have been very, for years done a certain way, but the future of our business, and by the way, the big edge there is that if you’re 25 years old and you’re not an expert on every product in mortgage but you’re incredible at marketing and bringing leads to the table, you can be successful in our business now. Alec Hanson:Oh, absolutely. Dan Hanson:You can be amazing because you’re going to bring that marketing skill. By the way, fulfillment is going to continue to get stronger and stronger, and I was laughing with Tammy Richards saying, “Someday, the borrower is going to put his thumbprint in the machine and you’re going to approve the loan.” Alec Hanson:So, the loan structure guy, “Ah.” Dan Hanson:As an analogy, I tried to change a tire on a flat tire on my car. Alec Hanson:Oh, no. Dan Hanson:Yeah, I haven’t done a flat tire for, I don’t know, 30 years. So, I used to know how to do that. Open the trunk, pop up-Alec Hanson:There was another tire in there. Dan Hanson:Pop out a tire, get out the jack. I was amazing, right? Flat tire, I think, “Okay. Us old guys know how to do this stuff. Give me some duct tape and a hammer and I’ve got it all together.” So, I get out, I open the trunk. There’s no spare in the trunk. I never looked. There’s no spare in the trunk. I go, “Oh, my gosh!” They have an air compressor in there, and it basically says, “Hey.” Alec Hanson:”Put this in your mouth.”Dan Hanson:Yeah. Exactly, and blow. So, bottom line it goes, “Put this in your tire. Inflate it enough so you can limp to the nearest place where we can get your car fixed.” Alec Hanson:Oh, my gosh! Dan Hanson:I go, “Oh, no.” So, of course, I am mechanical expert as many people know. Alec Hanson:Yes, they know this. You’re incredibleDan Hanson:I plug that in and all the air just rolls out. Tire doesn’t go anywhere. I go, “This is not going to work.” So, I look at how we did things in the past, and not even looking in the trunk to see there wasn’t a spare was, and maybe it’s just me. It could just be me. Alec Hanson:No. Dan Hanson:The reality was I learned a lesson about that, which is look in the trunk, make sure you understand what happens when there’s a problem. Alec Hanson:Good lesson. Dan Hanson:It’s a good lesson. Alec Hanson:So, let’s unpack some leadership stuff. You’ve led a lot of people across our industry for a lot of years. People look up to you. They admire your wisdom. They want insight, and I feel like while loan officers are looking at this evolving landscape going, “Where’s my solid ground? What do I do next?” There’s a lot of uncertainty. I know that our leadership and leaders out there who are hungry and looking to grow and learn are having the same conversations, which is, “What do I do? This world is moving really fast. I have a team behind me.” So, I love this analogy and I love if you could share with everybody. So, let’s unpack certain levels of leadership because I think there’s messaging for each one that you could deliver that’s really cool. So, let’s look at the branch managers today. Like I said before, if you’re going to write a letter to the branch managers of the industry who are out there leading their local people, loving on them, looking at this crazy change going on, looking at the change in technology that’s coming in mortgage, what’s your letter to them? What’s your message? What’s your inspiration? What’s your wisdom to that group of leaders? Dan Hanson:Well, that’s a big order. I got a few tips, okay? So, I think being a branch manager, at least in my career and I think in everybody’s career in our industry is the best job in the business. It’s also the hardest job in the business because you have to be a leader, which means you have to inspire, you have to be passionate, you have to bring value to your people, which challenges you. It makes you do things you don’t necessarily want to do. You have to know what your competitor’s pricing is. You have to know who’s doing business in the market. You have to know who the talent is in your market. You have to understand where things are going by listening and reading and talking to your regionals and your company executives and looking at your technology platform. So, you got to be continually growing yourself.Alec Hanson:… which is hard, very hard. Dan Hanson:Then number two, then you have to be the manager. So, you have to know what does it cost me to produce loan? How do I explain that to my people so they know. Hey, the number one objective is the company has to make money because bad things happen to companies that don’t make money. Alec Hanson:That’s a good line. Dan Hanson:Exactly. So, here’s what we have to do. We’re paid to do this. This is what our cost of manufacturing is. This is what our product mix is. This is what the market’s product mix is, and who our competitors are. Where are we in this mix? What is our identity? Alec Hanson:You described it really elegantly with the train analogy, which is they have to be driving the train to the right destination. They have to have the leadership vision, to have their head up and go, “We’re going here.” They got to turn around and be able to shovel coal in and make sure the actual engine works. Dan Hanson:It’s so true. Alec Hanson:It’s both because if they’re just managing with no leadership and vision, then who knows where they’re going? We’re going off a cliff. Dan Hanson:That’s right. Alec Hanson:If they’re just telling everybody to go this way, and they’re not willing to get in the trenches and work, their team looks at them and goes, “You’re not with me.” Dan Hanson:Right. I guess my biggest thing to all the branch managers is take a breath. You are not going to be everything you want to be all of a sudden. It takes a team to help you get there. At a company like our, for example, LoanDepot, you might be going from a car where you’ve been driving this same car for a long time, which is a bank model or another mortgage banking model, and all of a sudden, you step into more technology-driven model and there’s some buttons, you don’t even know what they do. Alec Hanson:Yeah. You’re in the Tesla now. Dan Hanson:Exactly. So, when I turned it on, I didn’t hear anything. I didn’t even know it was on. So, I want them to just breathe and go, “Okay. I didn’t know it was on,” but it goes really fast once I figured out how to drive it. So, get help in driving the car. That will help you. Alec Hanson:That’s a good message, though. I mean, get help. Raise your hand. There’s a team here. Dan Hanson:Yeah. The people who don’t raise their hand generally end up crashing. Raising your hand means you acknowledge vulnerability, you acknowledge an area that you need support. That’s strength. That’s not weakness. That’s strength. The people who don’t raise their hand are the weaker people. So, I tell branch managers, reach out, use the resources you’ve got, enjoy your job. It is so rewarding to see people that you work with succeed.For me, it’s the reason I’ve been in the business 35 years. It’s basically my personal excitement when I watch people go up on stage at CE and get an award for an incredible amount of work that they’ve dedicated themselves to and our opportunity to recognize that. That to me is the reason I’m still here. Alec Hanson:So, summarizing the message to managers on the street level, be vulnerable, ask for help, you’re not alone. Dan Hanson:Yup. Alec Hanson:Breathe. You got a great job, and you’re actually changing people’s lives. That perspective, I think, can help in a lot of the stress they carry. Dan Hanson:I give them one more thing. Don’t hire defensively. Don’t hire someone because-Alec Hanson:Unpack that. Unpack that a little bit. Dan Hanson:Look. You’re a branch manager, there’s immense pressure to hire on originators because-Alec Hanson:Mainly from you. Dan Hanson:From everybody. Alec Hanson:Yeah, I know. That’s their job. Their job is to grow. Dan Hanson:That’s right. So, that pressure is just really huge. You’re going to hire 14 originators in the next 15 months. So, they’re out, “I got to hire. I got to hire. I got to hire.” The reality is we hire defensively. Someone tells us they do five loans a month and we go, “That’s great. What do you need to get here?” Alec Hanson:Exactly. Dan Hanson:We don’t ask them how they originate those loans. We don’t understand if they’re going to fit in our organization in a way that’s going to be-Alec Hanson:Culturally. Dan Hanson:… culturally fit. We’re focused on what they’ve done in the past at some other company and we need that over here. Now, that assumption is a bad assumption. Alec Hanson:Smart. Dan Hanson:So, you want to interview offensively. You should never hire someone who you’re not going to improve their business with your model, honestly. Alec Hanson:That’s a great comment. Dan Hanson:Never do that. That’s a mistake. Alec Hanson:That’s awesome. That’s true. Dan Hanson:So, don’t let the pressure of hiring four-shoe into filling an empty chair. I used to call it the tyranny of the empty chair. You look over there and you see an empty chair and you go, “I got to fill that.” Alec Hanson:You’re panicking. Dan Hanson:Right? Do not do that. When you interview people, interview with the sole objective of you should come here because we can improve your business either from a quality of life or quantity of business, and that’s why you should be here. That’s compelling. Don’t be a hook, be a magnet. That’s the key. Alec Hanson:So, don’t hire defensively. Dan Hanson:No. Alec Hanson:Be a magnet. Dan Hanson:Yeah. Alec Hanson:That’s powerful. Dan Hanson:You know what? Your people will start to get pride around that because you’ll hire people that are going to fit. You’re going to hire people that succeed. By the way, retention doesn’t happen with people that are succeeding. It happens with people who aren’t succeeding. So, whenever I hire someone, I’m going, “Is their life going to be better in our organization than it is today?” Forget about how much basis points more we’re going to give them. It doesn’t matter about comp. It’s, “Is their life going to be better?” If it is, this is going to win. I’m going to get this candidate because they’re going to feel it, and they’re going to know it. Then by the way, I’m going to deliver it. It’s going to be shocking. The primary reason people leave our organization on exit interviews or any organization, by the way, in my entire career, has been I was told this and when I got here, I got this. That should never happen for a manager hiring someone that they’re going to be part of the team. Alec Hanson:That was awesome. So, let’s go up a level. There are senior leaders who are looking around the industry, who are leading other leaders, and who are looking at this industry right now and trying to figure out perspective, trying to figure out trajectory, trying to figure out where to point the train. What’s your message to those group of men and women? Dan Hanson:Well, we got to get in the weeds. We tend to end up in meetings talking to ourselves, which is always amazing. Alec Hanson:So, what’s the gut check moment? You look around and you go, “Oh, no. We’re just talking to ourselves.”Dan Hanson:Yeah. Anyone who’s originated a loan, would you raise your hand in the last 10 years and nobody raises their hand. That’s a problem. So, engaging at the street level with your top people talking to your managers, understanding what the competitive environment is really doing gives you a much better perspective because we’re here to figure out where the train is going. You’re not going to find out where the train is going unless you’re talking to people at that level. So, they got to get in the weeds, number one. Lastly, I would just tell them all that people really want to believe in a hopeful and successful future. They want to believe that when you call, you pick up the phone, that bureaucracy is not your new middle name, that you-Alec Hanson:There’s a lot of fear on big companies for that. Dan Hanson:That’s right. When somebody calls you or when somebody emails you and there’s no response for three days, you should not be in the leadership role. Period. I’m sorry. I don’t care how talented you are. Alec Hanson:You got to cut that clip out. That’s the one right there. That’s the clip. That’s the one. That’s the one. I think that’s powerful. That’s the truth. Dan Hanson:Well, because it shows respect. It shows respect. People today want at a minimum that kind of respect. I know that you’re busy. I’m busy. I got a lot of people, too. I really work incredibly hard at making sure that nobody feels like they don’t get responded to. I mean, they may not get the response they want. Alec Hanson:They may not like it, right? I understand. Dan Hanson:They’re going to hear it, right? I think leaders, the more you do that, the more it reinforces who you are as a culture and the more confidence you give the frontline because they believe the top-Alec Hanson:They know it. Dan Hanson:… top lines got their back. That’s the key. So, I’ve always felt that way. Alec Hanson:I think that’s so important to wrap down our conversation on this topic because there’s going to be, in my opinion, another great consolidation. You look at the history of our industry and ebbs and flows, and maybe not. Maybe I’m wrong, but you look at the ebbs and flows, you look at the fragmentation of the industry today. You look at what crises have done, where everything comes together, and you look at the top 20 mortgage companies including banks have 20% market share. I go, I think we are ripe for disruption. I think that technologies could play a huge role in that. I fully believe it. I think how we change behaviors is going to play a huge role in it as consumer, as we adapt to consumer change. I think that leadership has to change with it, and has to stay connected to the people. Dan Hanson:It does. It also has to see where the consumer is going and move their organization to that area because leaders have to cope with change. They have to learn how to move an organization to change. That’s really a critical aspect of any leader. If you can’t educate the organization to move the change, you’re going to be behind the ball every time. Managers have to deal with and cope with complexity because I can say, “Hey, we got to be there,” and they leave the room and everybody goes, “Well, that’s great-” Alec Hanson:”Thanks, Dan.” Dan Hanson:”… but we don’t have any tracks.” I go, “Yeah.” So, you go to technology. You have all this … It’s like trying to change a tire on a car now or trying to fix a car. You used to be able to fix a car. Now, you open it up and it’s all computer in there. You go, “Ooh!” Alec Hanson:Oh, my God! I took my Tesla in to buy it, and I took it in for service because I was like, “I’m going to buy it.” I was leasing as a test. So, I took it in. I’m like, “I’m going to get it serviced and checked because if I’m going to buy it, I want to tell me if there’s anything wrong.” I drove it up there. Waited in line for an hour. Got up to the guy. I go, “Yeah. I’m thinking about buying this Tesla. Can you please run a service on it. Tell if anything’s broken, needs repair, needs fixing.” He looks at me and he goes, “Does the screen say anything is broken?” I go-Dan Hanson:That must be fine. Alec Hanson:”What do you mean?” They go, “Well, if the screen says something’s broken, otherwise, everything’s working perfectly.”I go, “Can you check?”He goes, “I can look at the screen for you.” The world is changing fast. Dan Hanson:I know. Alec Hanson:Mortgage is going to change really fast because we haven’t for a long time. So, it’s built up. Dan Hanson:It’s the old Robin Williams’ joke, which I love, “What’s the weather like? Open the window.” I mean, at the end of the day, we have to just roll with change, and we have to enjoy it. If we hate it and our life is miserable because there’s change, frankly, all of us as human beings no matter whether you’re in the mortgage space or whatever business you’re in or in life, you’re going to be challenged. So, we got to roll with it, and then we got to help our people get there and we’ve got to be a part of that. So, the mortgage industry is a great industry. We enable people to do things that they’ve dreamed of doing. We enable them to have liquidity. We make life-changing decisions about whether they should get a loan or not and raise their family in a community they want to, and we are blessed to have this incredible opportunity and we should not take that for granted and we should be on top of it. Alec Hanson:So, final statement, final message to the mortgage professionals out there that are paying attention here listening in. What’s your final comment to them as they look at 2020? It’s a big year. Roaring Twenties is back. There’s going to be a lot of change, lot of uncertainty. Like I said earlier, election year, the craziness happening right now. What’s your final comment to these people to send them out to enjoy their day? Dan Hanson:Guys, we are in a country and we’re in an industry where it’s very hard not to just be overwhelmingly happy every day. There are millions of people around the world and millions of people even in America that are not given the kind of opportunities we have in this industry. So, keep some perspective. Keep your head on. Have self-control. Have a laugh once in a while. Enjoy the victories and the world will not end if this loan doesn’t close today. Yes, we want it to close, and we’re going to do everything we can, but you know what? It’s probably not a visit to the oncology ward. It is just a loan and it’s somebody’s life, and we got to do what we can to make it happen, but I think people just get so tied up in the minutia of the success of the moment that they miss the broader grace that is in our industry. So, I really hope that they enjoy their life in this business and they share that with others, and they’ll be very successful. Alec Hanson:Awesome. Dan, thanks for being here. I know we’ll probably have you back because there’s some stories that we got to unleash on the podcast. Dan Hanson:Most of those stories can no longer be unleashed on any broadcast, but thank you very much. Alec Hanson:All right. Everybody, have a wonderful day. This is the Modern Lending Podcast signing off. Alec out. Peace out.

Content, wrapped in a story, becomes a powerful tool of human connection, education, and inspiration. Be the storyteller of your own narrative

This LiveTime with Alec, encourage…

• You to tell your story and embrace who you are
• What type of story you need to share
• How to weave helpful story telling into education
• the right narrative of your storytelling

Episode Transcribe

What’s up everybody, happy Friday.

 Good morning, good afternoon, good evening and good night.

 And I don’t know, it was there I had to say it. I hope everyone’s having a good Friday. I’m trying to have a live again on a Friday to see if it lands. It’s always interesting going live on Friday’s, I always wonder who was actually working in the mortgage industry because I know that you know what I’m talking about. We going to talk about storytelling today. Man, I am so infatuated with this quote, I put it up there right now. I’ve been rocked by how powerful stories are for our salespeople, for ourselves, for our community. Man, they shape everything, don’t they?And I come from a family of storytellers, which is really cool. So I’m like, “If you don’t know my dad, Dan,” hey guys, what’s going on? “he is an incredible storyteller.” In fact, if you ever watched the movie Big Fish, if you’ve ever seen that before, you know what I’m talking about. That is a really cool movie and it’s about storytellers. And, happy Friday Ben, and my dad’s a big storyteller, so there you go. I learned over the years that if we frame everything we’re doing in stories, we can really get our point across. But there’s a couple of things I want to break down on this story topic.First of all, the backend of the quote from Steve Jobs is right there. It’s that, “The vision, values and agenda of an entire generation that is to come.” It’s just unbelievable. So, let’s unpack a couple of things here and talk about storytelling. First, I have to share one of my favorite stories. I share this story all the time because it’s true. And here you go. Let’s just go right into it. So, when I started originating I was 23, had a Hannah Sivik glorious set of hair and a suit with shoulder pads in it. Like no joke, it was amazing. And I would go out on Thursday and Friday’s and Saturday’s and Sunday’s to visit real estate agents and their open houses, right? Build relationships out there just show them I’m working. They’re working, I’m working, right? Modern day hustle.Well, I really distinctly remember driving up to one of the best real estate agent’s open houses, looking in the door and seeing that the agent was actually in there. And then being so terrified to go in and then put myself in a position of vulnerability. I have huge insecurities, at fear of rejection, all these stuff, that I literally drove away. Straight up drove away, couldn’t handle it. Could not handle this. And I tell that story all the time, because number one, isn’t that all of us to a degree? I really believe that it’s all of us. We’ve all had that moment in our career where we just couldn’t handle some situation and we drove away.And I shared at New Hire Orientation. And I was a great producer by the way, that year my first year I did over $80 million in production. Most of it purchase. Literally going to open houses in Brooklyn previews and trying to build relationships to draw up my business. So it works, but even though I had these great years of production, I still drove away from that case house. Now there’s a couple of ways to frame that story and there’s helpful ways in harmful ways. And so, harmful way it would be to me to wrap that story up in my brain and go, “Hey, I was a coward I failed,” and let that be the driving narrative of that story. Instead, I have that frame story of it’s just the experience I went through to accomplish what I did. And I’m proud that I was able to overcome that insecurity to go into the houses later and build relationships with mortgage real estate professionals and grow my business.And here’s my point for you guys, besides just that you need to share your story. There’s a lot of people that are afraid of their story and afraid of sharing it. And so, if we can just get authentic for a second, there are a lot of people out there that you’re embarrassed about your background or the stories that have made up your life and you hide it. And one of my biggest encouragement for you today on this live is to let it out. Let the beast out because when you, Hey, Ashley from Gilbert, when you let out your story and you embrace who you are, it magnifies your power in human connection. And if you’re in sales, you have to recognize that human connections is just the foundation, without that you’re not going to be a good salesman or salesperson. So how are you? Or what part of your story are you hiding? And what should you unleash?The second part of storytelling that I think is so important to unpack is, storytelling in your video content as a strategy to build human connection. So, if you’ve guys have followed me for a while, or you’ve seen my a hundred videos in a hundred days or any of that stuff, you know that I’m big about encouraging you to produce content at scale to grow your influence. And you got to do it through storytelling. Let me give you an example, we talk a lot about educating and educating people. And so, there’s tons of information in the mortgage business that people should get educated on, right? Like what to prepare for for buying your first home? Well, you could very easily make content that says, “Hey guys, let me explain to you what minimum down payment requirements are for a loan.” And you can do a four minute video on down payment requirements for a loan.No one’s connecting to that, maybe someone’s connecting to that. Or you can tell a story about somebody who didn’t think they could buy a home that you helped, a real one please, don’t make it up, a real one. But a lot of your pros, so you can do this, and describe how you helped somebody who didn’t understand that they could buy a house with little down and how you showed them all these options. And all of a sudden, you’re educating everybody through a story. There is so much power in storytelling. Debt-to-income ratio. The most boring topic in the world, DTI, right? Industry jargon. But what about a time that you saved somebody’s transaction because of how you structured the loan, or maybe you leveraged a asset dissipation tool. And now debt-to-income becomes a person and a story and a solution. And you can explain the rules about it in an impactful way and how it changed someone’s life.Now, you’re reading storytelling and education and trust me, this is going to absolutely rocket boost your business when you wrap it in storytelling. Especially if it’s helpful storytelling, you with me? So, my message today is twofold. Number one, I really hope that you are empowered to leverage your story and to share it. And the path that you’ve been on in life and the hardships and the tribulations and the things that you might be embarrassed about and I hope that you share that. And that you let it become part of your authentic story, because it will absolutely megaphone your business. Trust me, it’s an empowering thing when you let it out. The second part that I hope to just press on you guys today is, as you’re building content, do it with stories, all right?Steve Jobs, “The most powerful person in the world is the storyteller.” Just tell your story and explain to your community online and locally, the amazing stuff you’re doing through stories. Does that make sense? Are you with me? Mary D. wrote a comment, “I’m learning everyone has stuff in their life, it’s just different stuff.” Man, that’s the truth, isn’t it? And so, sometimes we got to let that stuff out. We got to share it because otherwise we’re holding on to it and not serving us. And so on this Friday, today, and for a lot of you guys on the West Coast it’s 10:30 in the morning, I want you to put out one of your stories today. I do. I want you to put it out right now. I want you to finish watching this, I want you to shut it down. I want you to turn your camera on and I want you to share your story about, why you’re in this business or somebody you just helped or a situation that you were able to help somebody overcome because XYZ.And I want you to see the power of that in real life as a real example. Just say, “Alec made me do it.” I don’t care. But you need to do it and trust me you won’t be… Adam I’m with you. Hey Adam. He’s a great storyteller right there is Adam [inaudible 00:09:38] figuring out that I’ll start following that guy. And I’m telling you, this is going to empower your business. Today, right now, I want you to just shut this down, go do it, tag me and share your story. You with me on this guys? It’s powerful. It’s powerful stuff and it will absolutely transform your business and those around you. And if you’re in leadership, you got to tell your story more often. I mean, I was just talking to somebody that I would love to join our company this morning. And he asked me what is important? And what do I expect him to do here as a leader? And man, right in my head one of my things was like, “Just be a great storyteller.”It’s probably not what he was expecting to hear, maybe it was, but maybe he was expecting me to say, “Go grow the market and hire everybody and do a bunch of loans.” And I’m like, “Just be a great storyteller. The more that you communicate your story to others, the more empowers your business.” Hey Chaz, long time. Good to see you on Facebook. So, does this all make sense? Empower your business through your personal story and use stories to educate your general community about the boring stuff of mortgage, because they’ll understand. They can understand what happens because when you share a story about another human being, we all connect, we all know what’s going on. Do you get me?This is important stuff. You got to frame it or else you get left behind. All right, we’ll keep the live short today. I appreciate you guys hanging out with me for a little bit. I’m telling you right now, shut this down and go film a video. And share why you doing what you doing? And tell a story and watch the world become changed around you. I hope you guys have a great rest of your day and a great weekend. See you next week.